passenger seatbelt of doom

[TheTurtle]

im getting really tired of pealing the skin off my knuckles on the passenger seatbelt latch when working the johnson bar.  Anybody come up with a good solution?  I think part of the problem is my CFI leaves his belt a little loose so it hangs down.  When Im on a normal flight ill ask the passenger to hold the buckle out of my way but when task saturated doing IR approach after approach I forget until i rip another peice of skin off.

I feel like theres a thread on this already but my google foo is failing me.  I thought about reversing the belts but that wont work because the shoulder harness attaches above the door instead of center of fuselage. 

[Mooneymite]

Uh, oh!

This sounds like the perfect segue into the manual versus electric gear "discussion".  

Disclaimer:  I like both as long as the gear goes down and stays down for landing.

[JKSmith]

I have a neighbor that has special flying gloves, don't know why tho he just flys a c-150. May be a good idea, get ya a single Michael Jackson glove yee hee hee! 

[RLCarter]

slow the Johnson bar rotation down just a bit, it will still be faster gear retract than anything else. I've undone the buckle on a few people lowering the gear if i go too fast

[Skates97]

I did that a few times with my CFI in the plane during my transition training. I didn't have shoulder belts so when I got them I got the ones with the push button release and problem solved.

[Ned Gravel]

I had the same issue for many years.  First, no shoulder belts and no problem.  Buckle is out of the way of the travelling bar.  But it is not really a very safe setup for the people in the seat.

So in my first year of ownership we bought the kits from from Alpha aviation with the shoulder harnesses and I was always having to relatch something on the downwind or prior to the FAF.  Bad setup but doable in all but the worst approach conditions.

Five years ago we bought these replacement kits.  http://alphaaviation.com/belts-new-install-stc/mooney/.  No problem at all now.

[carusoam]

Summary...

1) CB method... alter procedure to not have your hand go through that arc....

• knowing best putting gear up air speed helps
• knowing best putting gear down Air speed helps

2) upgrade to the Alpha system Ned pointed to...

3) Go electric gear... while looking, Keep M20R in the search criteria... 

4) Update to a Mooney with electric gear already...

That list should help make the alpha pricing easier to swallow.

Best regards,

-a-

[Ned Gravel]

7 hours ago, carusoam said:

Summary...

1) CB method... alter procedure to not have your hand go through that arc....

• knowing best putting gear up air speed helps
• knowing best putting gear down Air speed helps

2) upgrade to the Alpha system Ned pointed to...

3) Go electric gear... while looking, Keep M20R in the search criteria... 

4) Update to a Mooney with electric gear already...

That list should help make the alpha pricing easier to swallow.

Best regards,

-a-

All good except for electric gear.  Bo Ow.  Lac Bena.  Melo Boo.  (three different languages to express the idea of "not needed") Not even close.  

...Sorry... could not help it.  I love my manual J bar....

[gsxrpilot]

I loved having the J-bar in my C. In fact I sorta wish I had it in my K.

I would also undo the seatbelts, usually my own, dropping the gear. The solution for me was to slow down the procedure and to be more deliberate. Sometimes I'd ask my passenger to scoot over a bit.

[Hector]

I loved having the J-bar in my C. In fact I sorta wish I had it in my K.
I would also undo the seatbelts, usually my own, dropping the gear. The solution for me was to slow down the procedure and to be more deliberate. Sometimes I'd ask my passenger to scoot over a bit.

This! It works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[triple8s]

A fellow Mooniac showed me to turn the buckle toward passenger to keep it from unbuckling when johnson bar goes by. The C model i had was equipped with an adjustment that was near the attachme t point and if properly adjusted it puts the buckle up away from the floor enough so the bar didnt have a conflict with te buckle. 

[MyNameIsNobody]

Face palm.  Not trolling any more than that.  Turtle.....

Wow...

[M20F-1968]

I have the seatbelts from a 1998 Ovation, reel type with the retraction unit welded to the floor like in the Ovation.

The buckles are Amsafe buckles and was inadvertently releasing the buckles 15-20% of the time.  I called Amsafe and we looked at various solutions.  

The one I went with was shortening the short seatbelt with the buckle on it so the buckle was lower to the ground.  Also slowing down the motion when passing the by the buckle also helps.  It is usually the rgt thumb that opens the buckle, so using more of the rgt palm rather that grabbing the johnson bar seems to help as well.

John Breda

[Browncbr1]

you can remove the latch side of the buckle from the seat and reinstall it backwards so that the latch lifts toward the seat rather than out.... If both seat belts are done this way, the center area is free and clear and you don't hit anything...  Of course, that doesn't change my waiving my arm around and pushing passenger feet, jackets and whatever else out of the way before swinging gear.   Generally, you're going to get flying elbows and scolded if you sit to close to me right before GUMPS!  my regular pax know to get the hell out of the way when reaching TPA... My dad still hasn't gotten it through his head though... 

[steingar]

Did it a few times starting out, haven't unlatched anyone's seat belt in a long time.  Of course, the "S" in GUMPS is seatbelts, gives you a good excuse for checking them prior to landing.  and before anyone else spots it:

Gear

Undercarriage

Make certain the damn gear is down

Put your fool hand on the gear lever and make certain its down

Make Sure the gear is down!

[RLCarter]

I think I check that the gear is down like 10 or 15 times... maybe more

[Ron McBride]

With electric gear I used to do his with trim wheel. Haven’t done this for years now. Probably just learned a little different method.

 

[gsxrpilot]

I really think the secret is to make the "gear down" a very deliberate act rather than an emergency. I'm never in any hurry and have plenty of time to get the gear down. It just has to be down before I land. So instead of running through GUMPS like our lives depend on it, I'm more of a...

"Excuse me, I think I'll go ahead and get the gear now."

"Would you mind sliding just a bit to the right and pull your seatbelt towards you, so I don't unlatch you?"

"Thanks, we're down and locked, so make yourself comfortable."

Landing the Mooney is really pretty simple and with proper trim and throttle, it almost lands itself.

 

[steingar]

Yeah, I always drop the gear a couple miles out, get slowed down to flap speed and pump out the flaps.  Nice and relaxed.  I do my GUMPS check as I enter the downwind, and then spend the rest of the pattern on the lookout for anyone not supposed to be where they are.  I've read guys talking about dropping gear and flaps in the downwind, but that just seems a bit busy to me.  

[Andy95W]

4 minutes ago, steingar said:

Yeah, I always drop the gear a couple miles out, get slowed down to flap speed and pump out the flaps.  Nice and relaxed.  I do my GUMPS check as I enter the downwind, and then spend the rest of the pattern on the lookout for anyone not supposed to be where they are.  I've read guys talking about dropping gear and flaps in the downwind, but that just seems a bit busy to me.  

This is a good technique that allows for an easy and predictable transition to the airport environment.  In effect, it turns the airplane into something we all got familiar with early in our careers, basically a 172, in the traffic pattern.

The industry standard is to keep the airplane as clean as possible for as long as possible for reasons of efficiency.  Not a big deal in our M20Cs, but a very big deal as you step up in size to turboprops and jets.  For those airplanes you slow down as you approach the airport and dirty up the airplane when you need to continue the descent, i.e., in the traffic pattern.

I am not advocating that everyone should do this- people should do what they were trained and are comfortable with- but just explaining why a lot of folks drop gear on downwind.

[ShuRugal]

Head on down to your local motorcycle shop and find a good set of motorcycle gloves.  A well designed MC glove fits snugly enough that it doesn't reduce your ability to operate switches and controls, and protects your knuckles.

[Ned Gravel]

15 hours ago, ShuRugal said:

Head on down to your local motorcycle shop and find a good set of motorcycle gloves.  A well designed MC glove fits snugly enough that it doesn't reduce your ability to operate switches and controls, and protects your knuckles.

As well, Pep Boys and other hardware stores stock "Mechanix" type of gloves (also called non-contact gloves).  Allows you to feel but keeps some of the chill off your hands.

[Guest]

It is also possible that the bottom ends of the pilot and passenger are just too wide for a Mooney with manual gear.

Clarence

[gsxrpilot]

4 hours ago, M20Doc said:

It is also possible that the bottom ends of the pilot and passenger are just too wide for a Mooney with manual gear.

Clarence

See now you've gone from preachin to meddlin. 

[rbridges]

I had the same problem with my seatbelt.  I adjusted the shoulder and lap straps so the buckle is a little higher than my waist.  It pulls it just enough so that my hand doesn't catch the latch every time.