Maiden voyage in my new C model

[ShuRugal]

Had the first flight with my CFI yesterday in my new (to me) '64 C Model.  OFP to W75 and back.  Got the whole outbound trip, but the GoPro dropped the ball on return, and I only got the approach and landing.

Self critique:

The Bad:

• "Takeoff trim" was more like "stall trim", making it hard to balance between retracting gear and keeping nose down.
• Descent on approach into W75 too soon
• Too low in pattern at W75
• Bit of bounce on landing at both ends

The Good:

• smooth takeoff roll and runway break both times
• No problem maintaining desired altitude in cruise
• Salvaged the base-final turn at W75 despite the low downwind
• Planned my letdown for approach to OFP correctly, arrived at pattern entry point with desired speed and altitude.
• speed on final felt good at both ends
• Bounces were small
• kept the nose up during bounces and rode it out safely
• effectively slowed the aircraft within published ground-roll distances despite bounce

Any additional critiques welcome.  I am meeting with a CFI from Fredricksburg on Weds to get some extra training, as my regular CFI is fairly well booked.

Videos:

OFP to W75 (full flight)

Approach and landing at OFP

[bob865]

Looked good to me.  Better than my first flight on Wednesday in my E model, though I don't have the video evidence to prove it.  Your self-critique sounds a lot like my first flight as well.  My biggest bads were flaring too soon and too much.  She sits lower than I'm used to and so I flared too soon.  The controls are tighter than I'm used to as well so I ballooned a lot too.  Sight picture is really different too.  I felt like I was flying a crab on approach with no wind and when I parked I parked really crooked too. 

So much to learn still.  Hope you're enjoying your new bird too!

 

[Yetti]

Before take off line up and wait.   Sit for a second and remember what that looks like.  Then repeat.  You still had enough energy to take back off and land again.   center line, center line center line. (my CFI is ex navy)  it always have to be on centerline.   Even on taxi.   half flaps shoves less air down on the runway and is only 3 mph difference in stall speed.  and takes a bit of the hoppity hop out.   Keep working at it.   It took me about 75 hours before I felt mastery.

[steingar]

There are good reasons why cameras that take moving pictures are not to be found in my aircraft.

[ShuRugal]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

There are good reasons why cameras that take moving pictures are not to be found in my aircraft.

Rofl, I hear that.  I wouldn't have posted the video if I didn't want it critiqued.

[Yetti]

When you fly with him if you are not on the centerline you will get a "70 Victor now arriving on ONE SIX RIGHT (or left)  depending on which side of the centerline you are on.  On my transition training with him, I was about 6 inches off the centerline each time.   No Mercy.   For me it is the 2nd row of rivets that need to line up with the centerline

[nels]

 Did you use full flaps on both landings? The plane looked awful level in the landing portion of the video.

[bradp]

Yeah I think he called full flaps in the first video.

It kind of looks like you are trying to land a high wing with springy landing gear and drag it in on the first one.  You'll get the energy management, eventually, but yes, flare is too high and the landing attitude is too flat and the from my perspective on your baseball hat.  You didn't have enough energy to round out and flare in the first landing and the wing stopped flying - maybe a foot or so off the ground - and went ker-plunk.  That's why it bounced.  I think I hear the stall warning buzzing on the second landing too and you're a bit low in the approach.  For a long runway there's no reason to aim for the very end of the runway.  Use the numbers or such as your aiming point.  For a truly short field you can use all the runway you need given obstructions, etc..  I know you were trying a short field landing at W75 (btw when I do my CFI and teach Mooney transition, W75' would not be the first place I'm taking a transitioning student to learn to land a new-to-them airplane ;-).  

There are like x^y landing threads in mooneyspace about landing technique. Some common themes are know your weight so Vso can be determined so 1.3 Vso can be determined. No need to drag it in.  Fly the airplane a few inches off the ground.  Hold off the nose, hold it off, keep increasing your AoA until you hear the stall buzzer and keep holding of the nose.  The key is to have enough energy for elevator authority so you can hold off the nose and gently lower it to the ground but not so much energy that you float forever and a day.   You said it yourself in the second one - you just got to get used to the timing of the flare.  

NEVER EVER force a mooney to land when it's not ready.  That's when you'll get into trouble.  You didn't show too much energy in either of your videos- but maybe you dragged it in a bit. 

Your instructor is your CFI from primary training?  Doesn't seem to be quite as familiar with the type (almost all mooney specific instructors would know that the speeds are in MPH and wouldn't need to reference the POH/owner's manual for pattern work - I'm not sure if that was on purpose or not).  Type specific training is beneficial, but if you work well with your instructor, that's definitely a consideration.  It might be a good idea to find a mooney instructor or fly with a non instructing (from a legal sense) mentor pilot that can give you some airframe-specific pointers. 

Good luck - you're doing great!! All this will come with time and practice.  

I am never above criticism from myself or others (that's why I like videoing my landings - I learn something about the landing by re-watching them) here is an example of timing the flare correctly but holding off the nose too long and letting it come down with too much force (also land and have always landed a foot left of centerline... I have no idea why and that's another issue of mine):

 

 

Here's an example of what you will be looking to do at an airport like W75. Energy just enough so that the roundout and flare almost occurs simultaneously (roundout ->flare -> beeep -> chirp in quick sequence). 

 

 

 

 

[ShuRugal]

Appreciate all the info.  I spent Wednesday through Friday working with a Mooney specific CFI (Lee, as listed in The Mooney Flyer) for some transition training.  Got that flare timing tuned a lot better now, and particularly have gotten more comfortable with having the elevator back against the stop on touchdown.  If I tried that in the P2002 I've previously trained in, i'd've scraped the tail off it, but the Mooney seems to like full aft yoke for the last 5 feet.

 

Haven't got an updated video to show off, but I will sooner or later.

Lee, if you're reading this, thanks again!

[Raptor05121]

I've been recently trying to hold off the nose wheel as long as possible. It seems the tail stops flying at around 50mph before it comes down.

[MB65E]

I'd take you aiming point and move it 500 ft further down the RW or fly a tighter pattern. That might help manage the energy a bit. I've never hit the elevator stop while in the air landing any airplane except a sr22, but that's another story. 

Sounds like you are taking things well and doing the right steps to improve!

nice work,

-Matt