My Dream Gadget Just released - Garmin G500 TXi

[JohnB]

Just found out that the new Garmin G500 TXi PFD/MFD/EIS with on screen engine monitor I heard rumored about 2 years that I have been anxiously waiting for ago has FINALLY come out this month as of 10/4/2017, and looks GREAT! Ready to pull the trigger when available. Hoping that their engine monitoring system is certified as primary as that would solve many panel space problems. I think I need one!

https://explore.garmin.com/en-US/txi/

 

[gsxrpilot]

Well I was pretty excited about this for 15 minutes. Unfortunately it's still not as good as it could be. I'm looking for a clean, simple, all glass cockpit. This isn't it. :-(

The ideal scenario would be to install one of the 10.6" screens. This can give PFD/MFD/EIS all on one screen. But unfortunately this configuration can't be primary for anything requiring backup steam gauges for the PFD and the original engine instruments as well. 

The only way to truly achieve the all glass cockpit without any backup steam gauges, is to install THREE of the 7" panels. The 7" panels are the only ones that can have a battery backup. The 7" panels are dedicated, much like the Aspens are today. One for PFD and one for MFD, but able to switch if one goes out. It also requires a full 7" panel as a dedicated engine monitor.

This means it's no better than the Aspens that have been around forever and actually fit my panel better. There's no way three of the 7" panels would fit in my M20K panel.

If I could actually put in the 10.6" panel and rip everything else out, I'd place the order today.

[jkhirsch]

Here's my lazy question: Does anyone know if the EIS TXi can be a primary replacement like the 930 or MVP?

Edited October 18, 2017 by jkhirsch

[ArtVandelay]

And the G5 cannot serve as backup, not being wealthy, I was thinking a single 7" plus G5s as backup, but can't do that either.
The EIS 7" can be primary, but for an estimate $16000 I think JPI is better.

[KSMooniac]

We need to wait for the next product in this category. The TXi stuff has been incubating for years, and is not the reaction to Dynon's release at OSH. Hopefully it comes by the spring...

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[MIm20c]

15 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

And the G5 cannot serve as backup, not being wealthy, I was thinking a single 7" plus G5s as backup, but can't do that either.
The EIS 7" can be primary, but for an estimate $16000 I think JPI is better.

The 2.5 amu Sandia is a primary backup, only slightly more than the g5. 

[MIm20c]

19 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Well I was pretty excited about this for 15 minutes. Unfortunately it's still not as good as it could be. I'm looking for a clean, simple, all glass cockpit. This isn't it. :-(

The ideal scenario would be to install one of the 10.6" screens. This can give PFD/MFD/EIS all on one screen. But unfortunately this configuration can't be primary for anything requiring backup steam gauges for the PFD and the original engine instruments as well. 

The only way to truly achieve the all glass cockpit without any backup steam gauges, is to install THREE of the 7" panels. The 7" panels are the only ones that can have a battery backup. The 7" panels are dedicated, much like the Aspens are today. One for PFD and one for MFD, but able to switch if one goes out. It also requires a full 7" panel as a dedicated engine monitor.

This means it's no better than the Aspens that have been around forever and actually fit my panel better. There's no way three of the 7" panels would fit in my M20K panel.

If I could actually put in the 10.6" panel and rip everything else out, I'd place the order today.

Not sure I’d want to give up a square inch of that gorgeous display for something as simple as engine instruments. With a JPI 900 / L3 500 / 500 txi / 750 setup you would have the best combo available. Do I think the 20k AP is reasonable after you already have the 750 and 500 txi HELL NO. 

[gsxrpilot]

I've got my Aspen PFD, G5, JPI-900, KFC150/altitude, IFD540. I went and shot 5 approaches and 3 holds today and never touched the controls anywhere above 200 ft. AGL. Even the transition from Minimums to the Missed was just pushing a couple of buttons, shove the power in and watch it do its thing.  I'm pretty happy with the setup. I'd love 10" glass, but not if I have to have a bunch of other stuff as well. My panel has everything it needs and nothing it doesn't. I guess I'll keep the $$$$ in the pocket for now.

[mike_elliott]

3 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I've got my Aspen PFD, G5, JPI-900, KFC150/altitude, IFD540. I went and shot 5 approaches and 3 holds today and never touched the controls anywhere above 200 ft. AGL. Even the transition from Minimums to the Missed was just pushing a couple of buttons, shove the power in and watch it do its thing.  I'm pretty happy with the setup. I'd love 10" glass, but not if I have to have a bunch of other stuff as well. My panel has everything it needs and nothing it doesn't. I guess I'll keep the $$$$ in the pocket for now.

Nice Paul! Your setup is much like what I have in the Bravo lacking the Avidyne as Im still powered by a GNS430w. What is driving the KFC at this point, the fine swiss watch or the Aspen?

[gsxrpilot]

1 minute ago, mike_elliott said:

Nice Paul! Your setup is much like what I have in the Bravo lacking the Avidyne as Im still powered by a GNS430w. What is driving the KFC at this point, the fine swiss watch or the Aspen?

The Aspen... mea culpa here... today's flight was to figure out how to use the instruments and autopilot together. I've never really understood how to push the buttons in the right sequence to get it to capture and fly a fully coupled approach. I've also never had GPSS and didn't really understand that it uses HDG mode instead of NAV mode. Anyway, we worked it all out and once I learned which buttons to push in which sequence, it works amazingly well every time.

[mike_elliott]

5 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

The Aspen... mea culpa here... today's flight was to figure out how to use the instruments and autopilot together. I've never really understood how to push the buttons in the right sequence to get it to capture and fly a fully coupled approach. I've also never had GPSS and didn't really understand that it uses HDG mode instead of NAV mode. Anyway, we worked it all out and once I learned which buttons to push in which sequence, it works amazingly well every time.

Yep, GPSS off the aspen is the berries. You only lack a go around button to disengage the AP, command a pitch up and sequence the missed!

[gsxrpilot]

I'm pretty close though.  While watching the KFC150 keeping the needles centered on the approach, I loaded and armed the altitude target and rate of climb for the missed. I also selected Direct to: and the first waypoint on the Missed. Upon reaching Minimums I just push one button on the Altitude pre/select and one button on the IFD540 and shove the throttle forward. Once positive rate of climb is verified, clean up the gear, flaps, and sit back and watch it sequence the missed and fly the hold. I never touched the yoke or the pedals.

Two button pushes and the throttle isn't too bad for my 1987 piston single to sequence and fly a missed.

[MIm20c]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I've got my Aspen PFD, G5, JPI-900, KFC150/altitude, IFD540.

  I'm pretty happy with the setup. I'd love 10" glass, but not if I have to have a bunch of other stuff as well. My panel has everything it needs and nothing it doesn't. I guess I'll keep the $$$$ in the pocket for now.

Agree with everything you said. I adore my aspen and it will track any turn even with my old 430w. 

However, with the Garmin PFD and the Sandia or L3 you could get rid of the airspeed, altimeter, altitude preselect, and G5. The GAD controller can integrate the AP to everything else.  So yes, the pocket book would be 10-15 amu lighter but the results would be streamlined and efficient. 

[donkaye]

On 10/17/2017 at 9:09 PM, JohnB said:

Just found out that the new Garmin G500 TXi PFD/MFD/EIS with on screen engine monitor I heard rumored about 2 years that I have been anxiously waiting for ago has FINALLY come out this month as of 10/4/2017, and looks GREAT! Ready to pull the trigger when available. Hoping that their engine monitoring system is certified as primary as that would solve many panel space problems. I think I need one!

https://explore.garmin.com/en-US/txi/

 

I've played with the G500 TXi Sim extensively.  I was excited when it was announced because it is relatively simple to upgrade from the G500.  I found that it takes more icon pushes to do the same thing as the G500.  I'm surprisingly particularly annoyed with the lack of symmetry between the PFD and MFD.  For me at least the fact that the PFD screen is bigger than the MFD screen feels off.  The G500 has them the same size.  When the EIS is added, the sizes are the same, so that is probably the reasoning.  I thought of emailing them to ask them to provide for screen scaling, but thought they would think it was too picky.  The MVP 50 is still way better than the Garmin EIS in my opinion.  The full screen PFD mode is nice.  I still haven't decided whether to do the upgrade.  I was really looking forward to installing the GFC 600, but at Homecoming the Garmin rep said they weren't going  to certify it for the Bravo.  I hope they change their minds.  The idea that there wouldn't be anything else to upgrade in my plane is out the window.  If I like whatever new gadget Garmin comes out with, it's going in the plane.  I could have about $600K (less 75K for a new engine coming up in 500 hours) of new gadgets before it would make sense to have bought a new Ultra.  I don't think Garmin is going to come up with that many new gadgets in the next few years, though knowing their productivity, I could be wrong.

[ArtVandelay]

The 2.5 amu Sandia is a primary backup, only slightly more than the g5. 

So, if the Sandia (340) can serve as a backup to an EFIS, but cannot serve as a primary, if I just wanted to replace the 6-pack but didn't want all the SV and other fancy graphics?

The G5 can serve as a primary HSI or AI, but what about ASI,TC,VSI, and altimeter, it cannot be a primary for those as well?

Garmin is selling G5 that works with GFC500, but the GFC500 won't work with the G500 TXi. The GFC600 won't be approved for the Bravo, but works with the G600 that is approved for it?

If I have this right, can someone explain the logic of it all?

[smccray]

3 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Garmin is selling G5 that works with GFC500, but the GFC500 won't work with the G500 TXi. The GFC600 won't be approved for the Bravo, but works with the G600 that is approved for it?

If I have this right, can someone explain the logic of it all?

Explain it?  that would take Garmin to weigh in to explain, but I'll share a hypothesis-

We're at an inflection point in the avionics world.  Over the last 10 years we saw a dramatic price divergence between panel mounted avionics and experimental avionics.  Dynon's introduction of the D10A in 2016 and now the Skyview (STC pending) in 2017, it brings the lower price point of experimental avionics to certified avionics.  Certified avionics are expensive to certify, but one would expect already certified avionics to have a higher margin to recover that certification cost.  The competitive landscape is changing, but it remains to be seen exactly how it's going to shake out.

The low end of certified aircraft with light sport airplanes are already using "experimental" avionics.  Heavy twins are still pretty solidly in the certified world.  Dynon's attempt to STC the skyview for the 172 to the B58 Baron stakes out a range of aircraft to have access to experimental avionics.

Assuming Dynon is successful with the Skyview STC, we'll see piston singles and light twins end up with previously experimental avionics.  When Skyview is available, I suspect Garmin will have a much more difficult time selling the G500 txi.  At this point, I suspect Garmin is trying to segment the market in order to preserve as much an investment in the G500 and GFC600 as possible.  The Garmin G5 and GFC500 are from the experimental line @ Garmin.  The G500txi / GFC600 are the certified line. I suspect the reason the current product lineup doesn't make sense is because we don't know about everything yet.  If Dynon is successful with Skyview, Garmin will not ceed that whole market to Dynon- Garmin will respond with their own lower cost EFIS product that is compatible with the GFC500.

 

[KSMooniac]

100% agree with what Scott wrote above. The TXi line has been in development for years, and is not the reaction to Dynon. They're going to try to sell as many as possible to recover their investment. If/when the Skyview gets an STC, no doubt Garmin will release the G3X or similar to our market, with complete integration with the GFC500.

 

In the mean time, they have very little competition and they'll be happy to sell you the expensive gear...so the owner gets to decide if he/she should buy now or wait for something much, much cheaper, but perhaps not better. It will be interesting to see if the landscape changes in a few months, or if it is still years away. I'm continuing to wait.

 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[aviatoreb]

20 hours ago, donkaye said:

I've played with the G500 TXi Sim extensively.  I was excited when it was announced because it is relatively simple to upgrade from the G500.  I found that it takes more icon pushes to do the same thing as the G500.  I'm surprisingly particularly annoyed with the lack of symmetry between the PFD and MFD.  For me at least the fact that the PFD screen is bigger than the MFD screen feels off.  The G500 has them the same size.  When the EIS is added, the sizes are the same, so that is probably the reasoning.  I thought of emailing them to ask them to provide for screen scaling, but thought they would think it was too picky.  The MVP 50 is still way better than the Garmin EIS in my opinion.  The full screen PFD mode is nice.  I still haven't decided whether to do the upgrade.  I was really looking forward to installing the GFC 600, but at Homecoming the Garmin rep said they weren't going  to certify it for the Bravo.  I hope they change their minds.  The idea that there wouldn't be anything else to upgrade in my plane is out the window.  If I like whatever new gadget Garmin comes out with, it's going in the plane.  I could have about $600K (less 75K for a new engine coming up in 500 hours) of new gadgets before it would make sense to have bought a new Ultra.  I don't think Garmin is going to come up with that many new gadgets in the next few years, though knowing their productivity, I could be wrong.

Did they say if gfc500 is coming for us?

[JohnB]

On 10/18/2017 at 10:48 AM, gsxrpilot said:

 

The ideal scenario would be to install one of the 10.6" screens. This can give PFD/MFD/EIS all on one screen. But unfortunately this configuration can't be primary for anything requiring backup steam gauges for the PFD and the original engine instruments as well. 

The only way to truly achieve the all glass cockpit without any backup steam gauges, is to install THREE of the 7" panels. The 7" panels are the only ones that can have a battery backup. The 7" panels are dedicated, much like the Aspens are today. One for PFD and one for MFD, but able to switch if one goes out. It also requires a full 7" panel as a dedicated engine monitor.

This means it's no better than the Aspens that have been around forever and actually fit my panel better. There's no way three of the 7" panels would fit in my M20K panel.

I was thinking of getting a 7” and a 10.6” screen. According to Garmin, since the 7” would be your battery backup you could take out all of your steam gauges. My question is how or can you take out your engine gauges which I would like to do if you have a 10.6”screen. If you can’t take em out,  a 7 and a 10 plus my factory gauges won’t fit and I might have to have two 7 inch screens 7  with one dedicated to engine instruments only which would take up lots of real estate compared to a edm 900 or a mvp 50

[JohnB]

20 hours ago, donkaye said:

I've played with the G500 TXi Sim extensively.  I was excited when it was announced because it is relatively simple to upgrade from the G500.  I found that it takes more icon pushes to do the same thing as the G500.  I'm surprisingly particularly annoyed with the lack of symmetry between the PFD and MFD.  For me at least the fact that the PFD screen is bigger than the MFD screen feels off.  The G500 has them the same size.  When the EIS is added, the sizes are the same, so that is probably the reasoning.  I thought of emailing them to ask them to provide for screen scaling, but thought they would think it was too picky.  The MVP 50 is still way better than the Garmin EIS in my opinion.  The full screen PFD mode is nice.  I still haven't decided whether to do the upgrade.  I was really looking forward to installing the GFC 600, but at Homecoming the Garmin rep said they weren't going  to certify it for the Bravo.  I hope they change their minds.  The idea that there wouldn't be anything else to upgrade in my plane is out the window.  If I like whatever new gadget Garmin comes out with, it's going in the plane.  I could have about $600K (less 75K for a new engine coming up in 500 hours) of new gadgets before it would make sense to have bought a new Ultra.  I don't think Garmin is going to come up with that many new gadgets in the next few years, though knowing their productivity, I could be wrong.

I’m still excited Don! The G600 is only going to be certified for aircraft over 6000 lbs, so ours would be the g500. Interesting comment about the size differences. I would want a continuous engine monitoring strip and a mfd Similar to that on a g1000, as a strip or selectable full screen, and I think the only two ways to do that in my mooney would be to get a 7 and a 10.6 inch, or three 7 inch screens with the dedicated engine monitor screen on the right side. Hmm if one did that, you could have battery backup for all three and you should be able to take out everything else with three 7s. In using the sim though, I noted it was a little clunky to make rapid course and altitude adjustment using the touch screen though. Is it easy to do with the knobs and buttons on the G500 compared with knob altitude select and heading bug knobs?

[JohnB]

13 hours ago, smccray said:

 

We're at an inflection point in the avionics world.  Over the last 10 years we saw a dramatic price divergence between panel mounted avionics and experimental avionics.  Dynon's introduction of the D10A in 2016 and now the Skyview (STC pending) in 2017, it brings the lower price point of experimental avionics to certified avionics.

Assuming Dynon is successful with the Skyview STC, we'll see piston singles and light twins end up with previously experimental avionics.  When Skyview is available, I suspect Garmin will have a much more difficult time selling the G500 txi.  At this point, I suspect Garmin is trying to segment the market in order to preserve as much an investment in the G500 and GFC600 as possible.  The Garmin G5 and GFC500 are from the experimental line @ Garmin.  The G500txi / GFC600 are the certified line. I suspect the reason the current product lineup doesn't make sense is because we don't know about everything yet.  If Dynon is successful with Skyview, Garmin will not ceed that whole market to Dynon- Garmin will respond with their own lower cost EFIS product that is compatible with the GFC500.

 

I saw Dynons SkyView product in an RV, it is leaps and bounds ahead of the toys we have for our certified aircraft at ludicrously low prices. But I heard they were “just about” to get it available for certified ac over 5 years ago. Id get the skyview in a heartbeat if it were available for mine, have you heard any actual progress with this STC or is it just wishful thinking that it will happen? I bet the cost for this stc would be high and the price would be much more than the experimental price because of it, but this is all speculation,  but if skyview is really within a year, I’d wait, but I’m doubtful that would happen. If you’ve heard otherwise that’s it’s actually coming out, please let me know!

[KSMooniac]

They flew two planes to OSH with the full Skyview HDX systems installed. I was told 6-8 weeks from the initial STC and obviously that hasn't happened yet. Price for the hardware was quoted as 16 AMU plus an additional 2 AMU for the STC. I presume, but didn't ask, that the STC cost includes whatever special installation stuff might be needed for an individual airframe such as autopilot servo brackets, adapters, etc. That is a very compelling price point.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[donkaye]

3 hours ago, JohnB said:

I’m still excited Don! The G600 is only going to be certified for aircraft over 6000 lbs, so ours would be the g500. Interesting comment about the size differences. I would want a continuous engine monitoring strip and a mfd Similar to that on a g1000, as a strip or selectable full screen, and I think the only two ways to do that in my mooney would be to get a 7 and a 10.6 inch, or three 7 inch screens with the dedicated engine monitor screen on the right side. Hmm if one did that, you could have battery backup for all three and you should be able to take out everything else with three 7s. In using the sim though, I noted it was a little clunky to make rapid course and altitude adjustment using the touch screen though. Is it easy to do with the knobs and buttons on the G500 compared with knob altitude select and heading bug knobs?

First off, the Sim is "Flakey" to say the least.  It is constantly bombing out.  The left hand knob works the same as on the G500 for both Heading and Course.  I wouldn't use the touch screen for those functions.  GS and TAS are right next to each other as opposed to GS being on top and TAS being on the bottom of the ASI as now on the G500.  The Winds are also expanded to show total wind and direction in addition to headwind and crosswind components.  The information on top of the Current G500 is eliminated for the most part; no TRK or DTK, at least not on the Sim.  With two 7" screens you do get 2 AHRS, but then again I have two certified (three if you count the FS210) including the ESI 500.  I wouldn't get the dual 7".  You might as well just get the basic G500 in that case with the ESI 500 like I have now.  The Garmin engine monitoring system is too expensive for what you get.  I still like my MVP-50 much better.  For me, when all is said and done, forget the $11,000 ($9,000 screen plus $2,000 install) upgrade cost, I'm not sure you get very much more bang for the buck except for the full screen PFD capability.  Bottom line, I would like to have one of the 10.6 inch screens in my hands to play with for an hour.  I could then make an easy decision.

[Yetti]

Garmin has a "lock" on the market with all the moving map GPS they have.  They are also pretty good at what they do.  I once bought a Magellan handheld hiking GPS after owning one of the first Garmin GPS.   I regretted my decision (although that unit lives in the plane as the GPS of last resort should I need it)  Garmin does integration pretty well and if you already have their GPS panel mount, the obvious path is to stick with that vendor.    

For those of us who keep trying to out wait the technology curve.  There may be other options.

I keep betting the Skyview pony will get some legs and fly 

[gsxrpilot]

@donkaye I think we're due for a picture of the gorgeous panel in your Bravo.  I'm not a Garmin guy, but it's hard to make a case against your panel. But post a picture. There are a lot of new members who haven't seen it.