Avidyne IFD 540/440-Garmin 500 software bug

[thinwing]

I was going nuts trying to trouble shoot this ...A full day with the best avionics shop at KSAC doing software updates,re calibrating magnetometer,replacing g500 ahrs unit with another to rule out,inspected wiring,connector pins...etc...no change...My garmin g500 has functioned perfectly for 8 years.than all of a sudden I get the attitude display red Xing out.Always on the ground..on off on off...does it every time while taxing than snaps back on while on take off roll.Acts normal in flight..of course the a/p and elec trim are inop while this is happening.I got to thinking..what has changed...answer...the Avidynes and 10.2!!!...my avionics guy said no way...Today I read on Beechcraft panel forum...a guy named Jerry with same setup ..Avidyne IFD 540 with Garmin G500 and 10.2 experiencing the exact same ground issues I am having.Trek Lawyer..didn't have a solution than Jerry calls Avidyne support and finds out there is a software bug!!They are supposedly working on it with Garmin....Any body have a Used Garmin 530w till they sort this out???

Edited June 3, 2017 by thinwing
Mispelling

[Simpson Bennett]

We are investigating this as well at the moment. We are narrowing down what software levels of the G500 and the IFD 10.2 cause this issue. Right now, it is only an issue when the aircraft is taxiing, as soon as the groundspeed is picked up the red X goes away. We will have further/official guidance on this shortly.

[thinwing]

38 minutes ago, AviSimpson said:

We are investigating this as well at the moment. We are narrowing down what software levels of the G500 and the IFD 10.2 cause this issue. Right now, it is only an issue when the aircraft is taxiing, as soon as the groundspeed is picked up the red X goes away. We will have further/official guidance on this shortly.

Well that is good to know...The problem is this...I line up on runway with AI red Xed out.This in turn takes out a/p and elec trim.So I am launching down the runway into low IMC(real common this time of year coastal calif)with essentially partial panel until the AI wakes up!!Anybody care to express an opinion on the legality of this?

[thinwing]

We noticed the data stream of the rs232 com line from the grs77 ahrs was intermittent when viewed from Garmin g500 diagnoses screen ..the streams of 1 and 0 s seems to pause while in failure mode.I don't know if it help but Audrey at executive autopilots ,KSAC has a copy of this on his cell phone if it will help Avadyne engineers debug..

[Simpson Bennett]

Much appreciated and I will pass it along. I think we have the issue narrowed down but are waiting to confirm it and test it before making the final call on it. We extensively tested the G500 Integration with each release, we are looking into if there is a correlation between G500 software level and the issue. 

[carusoam]

First,  ThinW, great report...

Second,  Simpson, great response as usual.

 

Something to consider...

1) Not being able to tell what is causing it...

2) And having it come back on line without any real explanation that it will stay online.

3) ThinW, What do you have for back-up AI to keep the sunny side up?

I can guess the legality issue, but I'm more concerned about the physical back-up AI device.  

Best regards,

-a-

Edited June 1, 2017 by carusoam

[PTK]

12 hours ago, thinwing said:

I was going nuts trying to trouble shoot this ...A full day with the best avionics shop at KSAC doing software updates,re calibrating magnetometer,replacing g500 ahrs unit with another to rule out,inspected wiring,connector pins...etc...no change...My garmin g500 has functioned perfectly for 8 years.than all of a sudden I get the attitude display red Xing out.Always on the ground..on off on off...does it every time while taxing than snaps back on while on take off roll.Acts normal in flight..of course the a/p and elec trim are inop while this is happening.I got to thinking..what has changed...answer...the Avadynes and 10.2!!!...my avionics guy said no way...Today I read on Beechcraft panel forum...a guy named Jerry with same setup ..Avadyne IFD 540 with Garmin G500 and 10.2 experiencing the exact same ground issues I am having.Trek Lawyer..didn't have a solution than Jerry calls Avadyne support and finds out there is a software bug!!They are supposedly working on it with Garmin....Any body have a Used Garmin 530w till they sort this out???

Avidyne has real issues of compatibility which they obviously failed to address. You have no guarantee going forward that it will work. This is unacceptable. Avidyne is playing catch-up using your panel as their test bed. Have they offered you any compensation for being their guiney pig? I would return the box for a full refund.

 

[gsxrpilot]

Ok, who won the pool on how long it would take Peter to respond and make his pitch for Garmin over Avidyne?

 

[Awful_Charlie]

1 hour ago, PTK said:

Garmin has real issues of compatibility which they obviously failed to address. You have no guarantee going forward that it will work. This is unacceptable. Garmin is playing catch-up using your panel as their test bed. Have they offered you any compensation for being their guiney pig? I would return the G500 for a full refund and get an Aspen

 

Fixed it for you!

[PTK]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Ok, who won the pool on how long it would take Peter to respond and make his pitch for Garmin over Avidyne?

 

No pitch from me Paul! On the contrary if you read the post it's the op who is looking for a used 530W! Because his brand new avidyne is not up to speed of his G500 that's been serving him for eight years now! Avidyne has their hands full. They need to catch up and keep up. 

But since you brought it up I find it refreshing that Garmin equipment just works!! Don't you?!

 

[Simpson Bennett]

Actually, it's the contrary, so far it's looking like a G500 update has broken the connection between the IFD and G500. It's not a blame game here, we will found out what happen and make a fix in the next release.

[orionflt]

18 minutes ago, AviSimpson said:

Actually, it's the contrary, so far it's looking like a G500 update has broken the connection between the IFD and G500. It's not a blame game here, we will found out what happen and make a fix in the next release.

now you have me confused, how can the G500 update be the issue when thinwing posted that he did your 10.2 update? did he do a G500 update at the same time? 

Brian

[Piloto]

It is not unusual to find interface bugs when using RS-232 interface. Unlike ARINC 429 that is a standard worldwide open format, RS232 format is not standard but product dependent. This requires gathering interface definitions from your competition that may not have the desire to provide it.

José

[Godfather]

Ask avidyne to revert your software or provide you with a loaner unit without the update. 

[thinwing]

2 hours ago, orionflt said:

now you have me confused, how can the G500 update be the issue when thinwing posted that he did your 10.2 update? did he do a G500 update at the same time? 

Brian

Not that I know of...my static system was checked just after 10.2 so it's possible another tech slipped his update card into g500 while certifying altimeter in the g500.if he did ,he did not not log it .All these techs carry a little billfold full of   Sd cards with updates...The g500 was updated during testing when tech didn't think the avadynes could be the cause and he and Garmin thought this was an ahrs failure.My theory is this...10.2 is outputting code that is causing garmin grs77 (which uses GPS data from avadynes to compute mag declination etc)to go "what the hell!,"and shut down.Than it resets..reads the code and again sees gibberish and goes what the hell!Shuts down again...Than the aircraft speeds up past 20/30 kits or so and both units now are speaking same language.I have IFR trips planned this summer with lots of low lmc takeoffs along the coast....my AI backup is vac powered and is backed up by a standby vac pump...but I'm not used to hand trimming the Bravo on takeoff cause elec trim is inop...I sure as hell don't want to be fumbling with the trim wheel right after takeoff into fog!Anyway this really stumped Andrey the tech...I have not seen any billing from Exec Auto pilots ..now that I understand the issue ,I assume Avadyne warranty will cover for shop time.Im not sure what made me check Beech talks panel forum ,but if I hadn't ,I was planning on a rewire of the ahrs..cause that's what it acted like..an intermittent short or broken wire...I am disappointed Avadyne didn't immediately issue a SD to dealers as soon as they knew about it...I can tell you Exec autopilots hadn't a clue till they received my email report about the other aircraft.With that being said...I love the units and how they function!!Dr Peter prob thinks I'm a sucker but trading back to the 530w will be a last resort! 

[thinwing]

8 hours ago, Awful_Charlie said:

Fixed it for you!

I don't want an Aspen!

[orionflt]

 

Just now, thinwing said:

Not that I know of...my static system was checked just after 10.2 so it's possible another tech slipped his update card into g500 while certifying altimeter in the g500.if he did ,he did not not log it .All these techs carry a little billfold full of   Sd cards with updates...The g500 was updated during testing when tech didn't think the avadynes could be the cause and he and Garmin thought this was an ahrs failure.My theory is this...10.2 is outputting code that is causing garmin grs77 (which uses GPS data from avadynes to compute mag declination etc)to go "what the hell!,"and shut down.Than it resets..reads the code and again sees gibberish and goes what the hell!Shuts down again...Than the aircraft speeds up past 20/30 kits or so and both units now are speaking same language.I have IFR trips planned this summer with lots of low lmc takeoffs along the coast....my AI backup is vac powered and is backed up by a standby vac pump...but I'm not used to hand trimming the Bravo on takeoff cause elec trim is inop...I sure as hell don't want to be fumbling with the trim wheel right after takeoff into fog!Anyway this really stumped Andrey the tech...I have not seen any billing from Exec Auto pilots ..now that I understand the issue ,I assume Avadyne warranty will cover for shop time.Im not sure what made me check Beech talks panel forum ,but if I hadn't ,I was planning on a rewire of the ahrs..cause that's what it acted like..an intermittent short or broken wire...I am disappointed Avadyne didn't immediately issue a SD to dealers as soon as they knew about it...I can tell you Exec autopilots hadn't a clue till they received my email report about the other aircraft.With that being said...I love the units and how they function!!Dr Peter prob thinks I'm a sucker but trading back to the 530w will be a last resort! 

so then my question to Avidyne is how did the G500 break this? I could understand it if Garmin came out with an update after 10.2 was released changing their parameters but 10.2 should have been a stable build for all current and former Garmin versions. 

[thinwing]

I think Piloto hit the nail on target...Avidyne is having to reverse engineer code because Garmins rs232 code is proprietary...I am thinking Garmin is not to interested in seeing Avadyne succeed with the IFD s running 10.2 with such awesome features!

[Simpson Bennett]

8 minutes ago, thinwing said:

I am disappointed Avadyne didn't immediately issue a SD to dealers as soon as they knew about it...I can tell you Exec autopilots hadn't a clue till they received my email report about the other aircraft.With that being said...I love the units and how they function!!Dr Peter prob thinks I'm a sucker but trading back to the 530w will be a last resort! 

There was conflicting data from the initial reporters of the issue, it wasn't clear what the issue was until we could get further information from lab test, flight tests and customer reports.

3 minutes ago, orionflt said:

so then my question to Avidyne is how did the G500 break this? I could understand it if Garmin came out with an update after 10.2 was released changing their parameters but 10.2 should have been a stable build for all current and former Garmin versions. 

Development and internal testing of 10.2 ended months before 10.2 was FAA approved. At some point we have to lock down the release for any further changes. It's possible their release came out during that time.

[PTK]

18 minutes ago, thinwing said:

...Dr Peter prob thinks I'm a sucker but trading back to the 530w will be a last resort! 

Return it for a refund and get a GTN!

I don't think you're a sucker. I think you're too nice! Clearly avidyne is not ready for prime time. They may get there some day or they may not. But that's not your problem and they're not doing you any favors having paid all this money! You should have full utility of your airplane. Period.

[orionflt]

Just now, AviSimpson said:

There was conflicting data from the initial reporters of the issue, it wasn't clear what the issue was until we could get further information from lab test, flight tests and customer reports.

Development and internal testing of 10.2 ended months before 10.2 was FAA approved. At some point we have to lock down the release for any further changes. It's possible their release came out during that time.

Not to be an A$$, but what do you mean by possible? you know when you locked down the software for FAA submission and I would expect that you would be monitoring Garmin for software updates. even if you were not, you can always look to see if an update was released after you submitted 10.2 for approval.  

[PTK]

6 minutes ago, thinwing said:

...I am thinking Garmin is not to interested in seeing Avadyne succeed with the IFD s running 10.2 with such awesome features!

I don't think Garmin is doing it on purpose. I also don't think it's Garmin's job to make sure Avidyne works with their equipment. That's Avidyne's job.

[thinwing]

1 minute ago, PTK said:

Return it for a refund and get a GTN!

I don't think you're a sucker. I think you're too nice! Clearly avidyne is not ready for prime time. They may get there some day or they may not. But that's not your problem having paid all this money!  You should have full utility of your airplane. Period.

The GTN won't fit my panel Peter,my wife purchased both IFD s as a Xmas/birthday present...she figured I could use all the help I could get after seeing the track file of my hold entry into Ketchikan with a 40 Kt xwind !

[gsxrpilot]

1 minute ago, orionflt said:

Not to be an A$$, 

It kinda does sound like it. There is no such thing as perfection with software. And this could be just as much Garmin's fault as it could be Avidyne's fault. But regardless, it comes with the territory. And in this case, Avidyne is certainly being responsive and working through the issue. Garmin is famous for just telling other vendors to piss off. So I'd be very thankful for what Avidyne's doing at this point.

[PTK]

11 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

... And in this case, Avidyne is certainly being responsive and working through the issue. Garmin is famous for just telling other vendors to piss off. So I'd be very thankful for what Avidyne's doing at this point.

Responsive would be offering some compensation while they try and figure this out. Responsive would be assuming their responsibility and not try to cloud the waters by passing blame! Be very thankful for what? The customer paid big money to them and can't use his airplane!