Mooney IFR Students' Thread

[mooneygirl]

I got my first taste of spacial disorientation yesterday while under the hood on a beautiful day. [Not that I could see it].  I was trying to do a timed turn, and somehow got my left wing into a steep turn and the altitude started to unwind. I think I lost about 500 feet.  It was very interesting and I was very happy to have my instructor right there, and my husband in the back seat.

What was facinating was that I caught the trend in my scan.  But then my brain just froze for about ten seconds. This is not like me.  I was thinking "fix this! fix this!" and I just wasn't doing it. Then the sensations from the decent made me feel nauseous for a few seconds.  When I admitted what was going on, my instructor took over for about five seconds, and then I got my act together and kept flying the airplane.

It was very alarming, though we werent in real danger.  Previously we had flown the "A" and "B" patterns and I was feeling rather like a rockstar.  Altitude and heading were well within testing limits.

Then we started listening to ATC and I think perhaps that extra noise [which will certainly be with us when we fly IFR] just got my brain on overload. 

I just thought I would write my experiences.  I recovered and flew back to Oceano under the hood.  I love taking off the hood and BOOM the airport is right where it should be.  Learning learning learning.

I will be scheduling the written in April.  And no I don't think I will only miss one question like someone I know!

[Hank]

Getting a case of spatial disorientation during training is a good thing! Now you know what it feels like, and what to watch for. It happened to me with my CFII in actual, rolling outbound into the procedure turn for a VOR approach. Silly me, I forgot to slow down, hit the turn still at cruise, felt all kinds of funny, and fell out the bottom of the clouds. Recovered, climbed back in, slowed down and completed an otherwise acceptable approach.

"Learning moments" must be accepted when they happen. You had yours, now hold on to the lesson. Mitch's turn will come soon enough.

[kortopates]

Agreed and you just nailed one big thing you can't learn from a simulator - spatial disorientation. At least not not the simulators we typically use.

[carusoam]

You have got to love IFR training.  Just when you get everything under control, there is always something else to help hit the mental overload button.

Hit mental overload as often as possible in a controlled environment (simulator or instructor of significant other) to expand your mental skills...

In real life, the controllers will change your assigned altitude, give you a new way point and send you to a new controller all at the same time.... all while doing TTTT and keeping the clean side up in clouds....

Keep up the good work,

Best regards,

-a-

[thinwing]

not to mention stuff that happens in the cabin.....sick rear seat passenger demanding attention,dropped chart in turbulence,loud noise ,anything that causes you to rotate your head,or look down at the cabin floor,or look back at your rear seat passengers...and its a case of the spins!!!Whoaa....what happened....so the rule is never turn your head anymore than whats required to maintain your scan...kp couch

[mooneygirl]

Hello All

2.7 hours today for me in the LA basin. VOR tracking and intercepting,  A and B Patterns, Steep Turns, Partial Panel. VOR A into Santa Monica. VOR A into Corona. 30 minutes in actual conditions. Wow. It is coming together and I am loving it.   Mitch did 2 hours yesterday.  Woo Hoo

[Hank]

The Instrument Rating will significantly improve two things:  the number of planned flights that you complete, and your overall flying ability. I shot an ILS approach going to SNF last Tuesday at a towered field, but Jax Center wouldn't turn me over to the tower until I was nearly at the FAF inbound. Could not understand it . . . until talking to the Airport Manager on the ground. He came out to over-ride the pump for a 50¢ per gallon discount for SNF attendees. The tower is part of the nearby Aviation College [Middle Georgia College], is part-time and does not have radar. So expect the unexpected. I entered the clouds at 5500 msl, went through several thin layers, and flew most of the approach in IMC, breaking out at 1200 msl [900 agl], my lowest approach so far.

So practice, practice, practice! My buddy travelling with me is not rated, and it was his first-ever approach in actual [though he has many as safety pilot]. Having your passengers' trust, and their lives in your hands, is an awesome responsibility, so study hard, develop a good scan and stay current! That last part, I'm finding out, is not so easy . . .

[flyboy0681]

It's been a while since anyone has been in here.

I'm now 25 hours into my training and finally nailed holds. For the first three to four hours of hold training I just didn't get it and walked away frustrated each time. Then after working with an online hold simulator for hours on end I had an epiphany and got it. Each of my holds now are entered correctly and flown to precision, almost always arriving overhead when the clock strikes 60. I'm also quite aware of where I am in relation to the VOR during all phases.

Has anyone taken the new, updated IFR written yet?

 

 

 

 

[thinwing]

Yeah i noticed everyone apparently pooped out about last apr when the weather started gettin goo again...so who completed there IR???Did life interfere with your training?Are you planning on resuming???kp couch

[TonyPynes]

I am about to start my IR training. Just trying to get comfortable with my new plane and get used to the instruments.

Have been studying and reading.

[DrBill]

I did mine a few years ago and completed it in 6 (sorry 8.5) weeks. I was flying 2-3 times per week. I created a doc of my checkride and I'll post it on my site and put a link here soon. Since then, every cross country flight I do is IFR. With my "new" Mooney it is so much more fun. Part of my checkout included an IPC and I had to fly everything by hand. 2.5 hrs, 3 approaches, holds, procedure turns... I was OK at the start but dead on by the end. Was a good refresher. The next flight was an approach to minimums.  I was glad I had the practice the flight before.

http://www.creativecomputersolutions.com/flying/MYIFRCHECKRIDE.pdf

I took a ground school course at my local airport to pass the written. That was a lot of fun too.

Dr Bill

 

 

 

[flyboy0681]

Six weeks, wow. I see it taking me a year (but not 3x a week).

 

BTW, the Dirty Harry line should be "A man's got to know his limitations".

See it here:

 

 

[jbreda]

I have been instrument rated since 1989, but thought my experience would be helpful.  I lived in Portland, OR at the time and after obtaining my private license at about 45 hrs, I started doing dual work for my IFR license at about 50 some od hours.  Most of my time from 50 hrs to the the, then required 125 total time, needed for the IFR license was done Sat mornings, dual in a Grumman Tiger.  We filed at 4000 ft (or whatever put us in the middle of the cloud layer, but under the freezing level) and almost all of my training time was in actual conditions (overcast weather is easy to find in the Pacific Northwest).  The benefit or training consistently over time engrained the skills, and there is no substitute to actual conditions.  I fail to see how one can feel comfortable in IFR conditions after training in a simulator or in good weather with foggles.  Likewise, the quick several week courses do not leave enough time to engrain skills.  Food for thought.

John Breda

[DrBill]

I agree w/John.  I was surprised at first that we were allowed to file IFR on a training flight in IMC but it was nice to fly whenever we were scheduled.  Weather was not a option. Some things I remember like yesterday.  The PAR into Florence SC with the rookie controller (she was learning too).  The Back Course into Lumberton (one of the few around here).  The first IMC Takeoff (barely see the end of the runway).  Last but not least, coming out of the clouds at Asheville with a HUGE Mountain off my left wing just after I did a 90 deg right turn in the soup as commanded by the controller.

Thanks for the correction, flyboy,  Just mis typed it in my haste.

Dr.BILL

 

[John Pleisse]

Nothing will be more gratifying and nothing will make you safer. Hope ya'all get it done.

[M016576]

Quote: DrBill

I agree w/John.

[ToddDPT]

My plan should have me taking my flight test mid-November.  I'm excited to have it almost completed.  I must say, it has already made me a MUCH better VFR pilot.

[TonyPynes]

I did a weekend intense written prep/ ground school put on by a local examiner. Which was great since she also shared some of what she asks on the oral.

We took the test Sunday evening. Check that done. Now to learn how to fly In IFR. Almost every other weekend has been IFR conditions it seems since I bought my plane in August.

[TonyPynes]

Quote: DrBill

I did mine a few years ago and completed it in 6 (sorry 8.5) weeks. I was flying 2-3 times per week. I created a doc of my checkride and I'll post it on my site and put a link here soon. Since then, every cross country flight I do is IFR. With my "new" Mooney it is so much more fun. Part of my checkout included an IPC and I had to fly everything by hand. 2.5 hrs, 3 approaches, holds, procedure turns... I was OK at the start but dead on by the end. Was a good refresher. The next flight was an approach to minimums.

[carusoam]

"Now to learn how to fly In IFR." -Austin

 

Austin,

 

It's like the instrument rated pilot's secret hand shake.

 

We fly IFR (rules) in IMC (conditions).

 

Hope I got that right....

 

In and out of small clouds, really gives you a feeling of how fast your mooney is traveling, enjoy.

 

Best regards,

 

-a-

[TonyPynes]

LOL I knew someone would not be able to resist. IFR - IMC

But that is fine. It's all good. Can't wait to be able to fly more often. Thanks

[carusoam]

Austin,

 

Like a moth to a flame.....you pulled me in!

 

Fly more.  All it takes is time and money....

 

Enjoy the training.  It is a great reason to have to go flying.

 

Best regards,

 

-a-

[Txbyker]

Austin and Flyboy, do you know if the IFR exam changed yet?  I took mine in May and was told it was changing then.  From what I was told the scores have been improving and the FAA may have believed there was memorization at play.  I believe we have better tools to study, online videos, apps for IFR, etc and perhaps students are retaining more, at least thats my theory.

I got my IFR in the Mooney in June.  Just offering some of the things that stood out to me...

-Slow down and find a good MP and RPM that works for holds and approach.  I could not think as fast as my Mooney could fly the holds and approaches.  

-On the checkride the examiner had me use goggles just after take off and turned off all GPS maps (496, Garmin).  Stalls, all approaches, misses, etc all with goggles down.  It was not until we returned to the airport that I lifted the goggles.  You may be getting training that way but I did not.  I had a mixture of goggles and lifting them when missed to see the runway.  It was not a big deal, just different from training.

-My instructor spoke with the examiner and got a "hint" of the procedures we would do.  We practiced those a little bit more than others and it really helped.

Since getting the IFR I file IFR every time now and really enjoy the control and seperation.  Got my first real IMC approach last week at Gulfport, MS, an ILS over the Gulf.  It was quite a bit easier without goggles, at least for me.

 

[TonyPynes]

Quote: txbyker

Austin and Flyboy, do you know if the IFR exam changed yet?  I took mine in May and was told it was changing then.  From what I was told the scores have been improving and the FAA may have believed there was memorization at play.  I believe we have better tools to study, online videos, apps for IFR, etc and perhaps students are retaining more, at least thats my theory.

I got my IFR in the Mooney in June.  Just offering some of the things that stood out to me...

-Slow down and find a good MP and RPM that works for holds and approach.  I could not think as fast as my Mooney could fly the holds and approaches.  

-On the checkride the examiner had me use goggles just after take off and turned off all GPS maps (496, Garmin).  Stalls, all approaches, misses, etc all with goggles down.  It was not until we returned to the airport that I lifted the goggles.  You may be getting training that way but I did not.  I had a mixture of goggles and lifting them when missed to see the runway.  It was not a big deal, just different from training.

-My instructor spoke with the examiner and got a "hint" of the procedures we would do.  We practiced those a little bit more than others and it really helped.

Since getting the IFR I file IFR every time now and really enjoy the control and seperation.  Got my first real IMC approach last week at Gulfport, MS, an ILS over the Gulf.  It was quite a bit easier without goggles, at least for me.

 

[Txbyker]

Austin, I noticed you did the weekend school, was that American Flyers by chance?