gsxrpilot Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 1 minute ago, chrixxer said: I'm stuck with the vacuum system for the side step, unless I'm mistaken, but otherwise, yeah, I'd rip it out first chance I got. There are lots of Mooney's with fixed side steps, no side steps and hand crank side steps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 ...and no matter what avionics changes I make I need a vacuum system for the speed brakes- switching to electric speed brakes is as expensive as a new stc install for speed brakes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 26 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: Too late now, but it's ALWAYS cheaper to buy the plane with the avionics you want rather than upgrade later. Unless of course, and sometimes, that plane doesn't exist. I'm in the middle of a major avionics upgrade right now but it's because I can and I want to... not an effort to save money That's what I feel I did--I shopped and waited a few months for the right plane, and when it appeared on the market I bought it within a few hours. Maybe I could have haggled more but compared to installing essentials later it's better to pay retail for a plane that's already been equipped as you like it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 There has got to be a few back-up vacuum systems coming to the market. They would make nice step and speed brake actuating systems... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: ...and no matter what avionics changes I make I need a vacuum system for the speed brakes- switching to electric speed brakes is as expensive as a new stc install for speed brakes. I'm in the same boat. But I did remove the stand by, electric vacuum system and all the piping behind the panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, carusoam said: There has got to be a few back-up vacuum systems coming to the market. They would make nice step and speed brake actuating systems... Best regards, -a- That's a good point - I already have an electric backup vacuum - that could operate my spolerdbrsjes if I removed the primary vacuum if I didn't need primary vacuum for avionics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: I'm in the same boat. But I did remove the stand by, electric vacuum system and all the piping behind the panel. Hmm... is that lighter? To remove the electric standby or the primary vacuum? if the standby is the only vacuum and used for just speed brakes it would last a long time since it wouldn't be operating full time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 1 minute ago, aviatoreb said: Hmm... is that lighter? To remove the electric standby or the primary vacuum? if the standby is the only vacuum and used for just speed brakes it would last a long time since it wouldn't be operating full time. The standby pump is a lot heavier. I believe it was also add an additional step to the speed brake deployment. First turn on standby pump, then activate brakes? Anyway, we decided to leave the engine driven pump on and pull out the standby pump. I'm mostly after the useful load here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted May 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 54 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: There are lots of Mooney's with fixed side steps, no side steps and hand crank side steps... Yeah, but as I understand it, (a) the fixed side steps are considerably more aerodynamic than the vacuum-retractable one; (b) no side step is awkward for passengers (I have one gentleman I fly with who's in his 70s and has a hard enough time with the step; and (c) mine doesn't have a hand crank - I'm not aware it can be retrofitted with a hand crank operated step? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 11 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: The standby pump is a lot heavier. I believe it was also add an additional step to the speed brake deployment. First turn on standby pump, then activate brakes? Anyway, we decided to leave the engine driven pump on and pull out the standby pump. I'm mostly after the useful load here. I kinda with Paul on this. I want the UL. In my consideration of moving towards a "no vacuum pump" required panel, I got hung up on my vacuum-operated speed brakes until someone mentioned leaving the engine pump in to run them. I realized a no-vacuum pump panel means not requiring a pump and not that I don't have one. It is making my avionics upgrade plan much simpler and likely to happen much sooner. As for right now, you do know ForeFlight allows you to run an iPad, a backup iPad and an iPhone on a single account, right? Many folks use a Stratus 2 with an iPhone mounted to their panel as the CB backup AHRS. Not an optimal solution, but if I lost vacuum and electric in my plane, I have enough AHRS on 2 iPads and 1 iPhone to find my way safely to the ground. At least that is my backup, backup plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Yes, I am glad to have shed the vacuum system and all the mechanical gyros. With three solid state AHRS I can quickly tell if one goes south which to ignore. Given the cost of a Stratus, or of a FlightStream 210, a second (or in my case a third AHRS) is inexpensive today. I'm stuck with the vacuum system for the side step, unless I'm mistaken, but otherwise, yeah, I'd rip it out first chance I got. I made the decision to remove the vacuum system as well. And like Jerry, I will have 3 AHRS driven AIs in my plane -- all are panel mounted with standby battery capability.As you go through this process, I would look at how you intend on using the plane, keeping in mind whether or not the investments will be a short term or long term commitment (i.e. are you planning on keeping the plane for a while?). If you plan on keeping for a while, I would go for the top shelf stuff and not bother with older or temporary solutions. Also, think carefully through the timing of the upgrades. Like surgery, you don't want to open the patient up too many times. I would group together similar upgrades to avoid paying multiple times for the installation costs. If there is an audio panel in the discussion, try to do this upgrade with any Nav/Com changes. There is an incredibly large number of wiring activities with an audio panel.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 I'm with the @Oldguy on this . I want my panel to have lots of functionality, but just enough redundancy to be legal. I don't fly a lot of "hard" IFR, (and I know it only takes once), but the times I do, I have the legal required redundancy and I'll back that up with my iPad, iPhone, ForeFlight, Stratus, etc, and ultimately the radio. I want the UL and that is just one of several reasons for my choice not to install back ups for back ups for back ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) I bet the step can be driven with a linear actuator. An electric motion device... We have a guy who wrote an STC that uses a linear actuator to operate the automatic mixture control. If interested, contact Rob. Flight Dynamics(?) Best regards, -a- Edited May 3, 2017 by carusoam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TargetDriver Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 On 5/2/2017 at 8:47 PM, Zwaustin said: Hope this helps your day dreaming ideas. I thoroughly enjoy flying behind it albeit not a Mooney. My opinion is the touch screens are not an issue, you will get used to them in bumpy weather. They also have plenty of edge to support your hand on. Flite electronics did the work in Addison. Niiice ! Heck, the only thing my 231 has in common with yours is they both have wings ! Lurking for serious panel upgrade now from all virgin original '80 in pristine condition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 I put this panel in my '66E 4-1/2 years ago. In addition to what is visible there is a GDL 88 and a FS 510 which gives me the whole Garmin data package on the GTN 750, and a tablet and Android phone backed up by the GPS 696. Even after several years I have yet to see a panel that I would swap mine for. ADS-B, GPSS, weather, and traffic. GTN750 w FS510 Aspen Pro 1000 JPI EDM 930 STEC50 StormScope WX 900 GDL 88 CYA100 AOA 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted May 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Bob_Belville said: I put this panel in my '66E 4-1/2 years ago. In addition to what is visible there is a GDL 88 and a FS 510 which gives me the whole Garmin data package on the GTN 750, and a tablet and Android phone backed up by the GPS 696. Even after several years I have yet to see a panel that I would swap mine for. ADS-B, GPSS, weather, and traffic. GTN750 w FS510 Aspen Pro 1000 JPI EDM 930 STEC50 StormScope WX 900 GDL 88 CYA100 AOA I'll be in my bunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 8 hours ago, Bob_Belville said: I put this panel in my '66E 4-1/2 years ago. 4.5 years...I think you have gone too long without spending money. I'd suggest a SV upgrade 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 4.5 years...I think you have gone too long without spending money. I'd suggest a SV upgrade Yeah Bob, what's the delay? You live in hill country, SVT would be a great addition. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Marauder said: Yeah Bob, what's the delay? You live in hill country, SVT would be a great addition. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro You might be right. SV for the Aspen is only $3000. But I'm a mathematician and the terrain representation on the GTN is pretty intuitive to me. SV does not have additional data. SV is Apple, I'm PC. But I'm hoping Sabremech is ready to mod my cowl soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 I note that Aspen SV includes traffic. No mention is made of the data source. Does the software enable that info from the Garmin boxes (GTN/GDL88) without additional subscriptions? NEXRAD as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said: I note that Aspen SV includes traffic. No mention is made of the data source. Does the software enable that info from the Garmin boxes (GTN/GDL88) without additional subscriptions? NEXRAD as well? I'm pretty sure the adsb traffic and weather will be displayed with the adsb unlock. I talked with them a week ago and they said the hazard awareness package is required to interface with my skywatch but they would include that instead of the adsb for me at no upcharge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 I'm pretty sure the adsb traffic and weather will be displayed with the adsb unlock. I talked with them a week ago and they said the hazard awareness package is required to interface with my skywatch but they would include that instead of the adsb for me at no upcharge. Bob -- Godfather is correct. If you pay for the unlock code for the Aspen, you will get weather and traffic on the HSI portion of the Aspen. I think Oscar says it doesn't show up on the AI even with SVT. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 43 minutes ago, Marauder said: Bob -- Godfather is correct. If you pay for the unlock code for the Aspen, you will get weather and traffic on the HSI portion of the Aspen. I think Oscar says it doesn't show up on the AI even with SVT. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro That's a pretty small display... which is why I have looked at SV a couple of times and couldn't pull the trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 Planning on leaving the rest of my 6 pack and running the Aspen without the tapes so the SV has the max screen area. But who knows, if Garmin updates the g500 I'll go that direction. My hope with the Aspen is they upgrade the unit to be the same size as the g500 but the interface is like the g3x. If everything in my dream world come together it will be plug and play with the rest of the install (ea100, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 One person I know who paid for SV on his aspen said that he wished he had used the money doing something else because the display is so small that there wasn't really much benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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