First and Second customer Mooney in for cowling mod.

[Sabremech]

5 hours ago, Rodeo John said:

Have you thought of relocating the oil cooler ? And streamlineing the cowel ?

Yes, for the E and F models the oil cooler will need to be relocated if not done already for my cowling mod to work. 

The oil cooler location on the C and G models isn’t an issue and I didn’t want to add to the cost or complicate the FAA approval process with more changes. It is a compromise.

David

[Guitarmaster]

Quick update applicable to those with Ram-Air.  @Marauder @Bob_Belville

For the past week I have been cruising around in Dave's plane (que evil laugh).  I have to say, it's amazing that a 180 HP model can outrun mine by 5+ KT. 
While doing some TAS testing, I noticed the MP was the same as mine at the same altitude and roughly the same temp.  23"  

In my plane 23" was achieved at 6500MSL with a DA of roughly 7500FT with the Ram-Air open.  Dave's achieves the same MP with no Ram-Air.  I had to go back and look at my recorded data from six months ago to make sure.  

What I am getting at here is the fact that I don't think the Ram-Air will make a bit of difference with the mod.  This was my and still is my theory.  Flight testing will prove either way, but it's looking positive for the Ram-Air to to be removed!

I don't know if it mod related or not, but I noticed it is much harder to come down and slow down in Dave's plane.  It's a very slippery C!


 

[Bob_Belville]

Here's my reference base line from today's flight.

• 11,000', -2C,
• MAP 19.7 (RAM Air open), 2560 RPM,
• 8.3 gph, ~62% power,
• ~ 100# below gross,
• 153 ktas. 

[Raptor05121]

Is this before or after the cowling?

[Guitarmaster]

3 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

Here's my reference base line from today's flight.

• 11,000', -2C,
• MAP 19.7 (RAM Air open), 2560 RPM,
• 8.3 gph, ~62% power,
• ~ 100# below gross,
• 153 ktas. 

Maybe you will see158TAS with Dave's mod   

[Marauder]

Quick update applicable to those with Ram-Air.  [mention=9886]Marauder[/mention] [mention=8913]Bob_Belville[/mention]

For the past week I have been cruising around in Dave's plane (que evil laugh).  I have to say, it's amazing that a 180 HP model can outrun mine by 5+ KT. 
While doing some TAS testing, I noticed the MP was the same as mine at the same altitude and roughly the same temp.  23"  

In my plane 23" was achieved at 6500MSL with a DA of roughly 7500FT with the Ram-Air open.  Dave's achieves the same MP with no Ram-Air.  I had to go back and look at my recorded data from six months ago to make sure.  

What I am getting at here is the fact that I don't think the Ram-Air will make a bit of difference with the mod.  This was my and still is my theory.  Flight testing will prove either way, but it's looking positive for the Ram-Air to to be removed!

I don't know if it mod related or not, but I noticed it is much harder to come down and slow down in Dave's plane.  It's a very slippery C!


 

I’m anxiously waiting your test flight results in your F. When you did the oil relocation mod, does Lasar provide all of the hoses needed? Also, can you post a few pictures of the mod in place? I have fuel transducers in the area where I think the mod goes and am concerned I may need to move them to make the oil relocation work.


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[Sabremech]

Hi Marauder,

I’m doing the relocation mod for Matt. All of the hoses, etc are included. I’ll post some photos when it’s complete.

Thanks,

David

[Marauder]

Hi Marauder,
I’m doing the relocation mod for Matt. All of the hoses, etc are included. I’ll post some photos when it’s complete.
Thanks,
David

Thanks David. Be curious of shots from all angles if you can. Like I mentioned, my mechanic used some of that area behind the baffling to mount fuel transducers and other stuff.


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[Sabremech]

15 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

Is this before or after the cowling?

This is Bob's before the cowling mod. 

[Danb]

Bobs E is pretty quick.

[Ned Gravel]

22 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Here's my reference base line from today's flight.

• 11,000', -2C,
• MAP 19.7 (RAM Air open), 2560 RPM,
• 8.3 gph, ~62% power,
• ~ 100# below gross,
• 153 ktas. 

Bob:

My '65 E ASI is in MPH.  But your Aspen is in Kts.  Did you make this change, or did your E model come with Kts on its original ASI?

[Browncbr1]

22 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Here's my reference base line from today's flight.

• 11,000', -2C,
• MAP 19.7 (RAM Air open), 2560 RPM,
• 8.3 gph, ~62% power,
• ~ 100# below gross,
• 153 ktas. 

Do you see better Performace  at 11k compared to 9k?   Or were you up there for the wind?

[Bob_Belville]

36 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

Do you see better Performace  at 11k compared to 9k?   Or were you up there for the wind?

I normally fly at 8 or 9000 but the winds were so strong I flight planned for 11 expecting a little more push. In hindsight I might have gone on to 13,000 just because we were breathing O2 and to see how the Mooney would do. TAS was awfully good at 11,000, making 66% before I leaned to 8.3 gph LOP. At 13 ATC would have let me go more direct around Washington and possibly New York's Bravos.

[Bob_Belville]

54 minutes ago, Ned Gravel said:

Bob:

My '65 E ASI is in MPH.  But your Aspen is in Kts.  Did you make this change, or did your E model come with Kts on its original ASI?

Ned, I don't know how that happened. The avionics shop followed their protocol and set the Aspen up in miles. I guess I have a case of out of control hangar gremlins.

[Ned Gravel]

Uh huh.......

[Sabremech]

one thing I've noticed after my mod is that the CHT's are much closer together. At least on the O-360. I'm interested to see the results on the IO-360's.

 

[Bob_Belville]

17 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

one thing I've noticed after my mod is that the CHT's are much closer together. At least on the O-360. I'm interested to see the results on the IO-360's.

 

David, yes indeed we'll be interested. On my most recent flight - 3 hours at 11,000', OAT -2C,  CHTs averaged 338/313/354/313. It is normal for my starboard side cylinders (#1&3) to run 25 to 40 F hotter than the port side. Looking forward to what effect your baffling has on that imbalance. And on OilT. 

FWIW, Gami spread was 0.1 and EGTs avgs were 1429/1400/1423/1430. (A slight difference in EGT location would explain #2's slightly cooler temp I suppose. The EGT peaks were similar 1485/1450/1479/1483.)

[Marauder]

one thing I've noticed after my mod is that the CHT's are much closer together. At least on the O-360. I'm interested to see the results on the IO-360's.
 

David, yes indeed we'll be interested. On my most recent flight - 3 hours at 11,000', OAT -2C,  CHTs averaged 338/313/354/313. It is normal for my starboard side cylinders (#1&3) to run 25 to 40 F hotter than the port side. Looking forward to what effect your baffling has on that imbalance. And on OilT. 
FWIW, Gami spread was 0.1 and EGTs avgs were 1429/1400/1423/1430. (A slight difference in EGT location would explain #2's slightly cooler temp I suppose. The EGT peaks were similar 1485/1450/1479/1483.)

Me three on the IO-360 (not too much pressure on Matt to get these flight tests done). My temperature spread when at cruise ranges from the high 200s to the 330 range. Been very consistent over the years. I’ll also be interested in Matt’s oil temps with the relocation kit installed.




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[Bob_Belville]

Me three on the IO-360 (not too much pressure on Matt to get these flight tests done). My temperature spread when at cruise ranges from the high 200s to the 330 range. Been very consistent over the years. I’ll also be interested in Matt’s oil temps with the relocation kit installed.




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I probably should know... do you ever run LOP? I suppose that screenshot egts indicates at least 100 ROP.

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[carusoam]

David,

The CHT spread you pictured on the O360 is near magical...!

Got to find a way to bring the carbureted EGT spread a little closer...?  

Learning so much about airflow outside the engine, can lead to Knowing a lot about airflow inside the engine...

Thanks for sharing so many details of your project.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Marauder]

I probably should know... do you ever run LOP? I suppose that screenshot egts indicates at least 100 ROP.

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Heck no! I bought the Mooney to go FAST!! I typically will run 80° to 100° ROP. I have done the Gami spread test (0.3 GPH) and my plane will run LOP. I ran it that way a couple of times. I just don’t like seeing my airspeed at Skylane levels.


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[Bob_Belville]

Heck no! I bought the Mooney to go FAST!! I typically will run 80° to 100° ROP. I have done the Gami spread test (0.3 GPH) and my plane will run LOP. I ran it that way a couple of times. I just don’t like seeing my airspeed at Skylane levels.


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Aw, just find yourself a nice breeze. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N943RW/history/20171121/1353Z/KMRN/6B6/tracklog

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[Sabremech]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

Aw, just find yourself a nice breeze. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N943RW/history/20171121/1353Z/KMRN/6B6/tracklog

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Come on Bob. Got a quick little C here! Lol

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

Come on Bob. Got a quick little C here! Lol
 
 

Nice.

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[Sabremech]

Today was a very frustrating day. I'm not very happy with the oil cooler relocation STC. Parts don't fit right and the oil cooler was hitting the engine mount. It's now back to square one and time to modify the doubler bracket as well as make a new left rear baffle as the old one is unusable. 

David