How to change the oil?

[luv737s]

On 10/4/2016 at 3:24 AM, teejayevans said:

And you know this how?
Oil and whatever is in it clings to various internal parts, which it normally good, but air blasting concentrated dirty oil can't be a good thing. If I were doing this I would use low pressure (5-10 psi) and do it before draining the oil.

I use very little pressure just enough to get some residual oil out.  If you thought I am blasting 100PSI in there, sorry. 

[Guest]

On October 4, 2016 at 7:15 AM, RLCarter said:

When I pulled my screen there was carbon in it, not the easiest to get to but it will be cleaned/checked during the annual as per Mooney's 100hr/Annual checkilist. As for blowing the oil out of the filter with compressed air, I'll pass. Oil enters the filter through the small holes around center mount, passes through the media (pleated paper) and returns to the oil sump through the center of the filter, so blowing the oil out with compressed air WILL blow some debris trapped in the filter back into the oil system. The filter is the last thing I pull off (after the oil sump has drained) this gives it plenty of time to drain back into the sump. I also cut the filter open after removing to check for metal, if all looks good oil is added back (no reason to add fresh oil to an engine that is about to to pulled off for repairs), the filter is installed while adding oil back. Is it messy?, it can be but if your carefull its not that bad, just clean up any oil that doesn't make it to your waste oil container. As a side note I wrap an old bath towel around the nose gear/wheel assembly (oil on the shock disks and front tire isn't good for the rubber).

You may want to study filter biology a little further.  Oil enters the filter through the numerous small holes in the mounting base past the rubber check valve and into the outer can, passes through the the filter media which is supported by the metal centre tube which is full of small holes, passes back through the centre hole in the mounting base and back into the engine oil system.  

When you cut open the filter, debris in found in the outside pleats of the filter media, this should confirm flow direction.  Using compressed air to empty the filter will force oil through the filter media, not out past the check valve.

Clarence

[RLCarter]

3 hours ago, M20Doc said:

You may want to study filter biology a little further.  Oil enters the filter through the numerous small holes in the mounting base past the rubber check valve and into the outer can, passes through the the filter media which is supported by the metal centre tube which is full of small holes, passes back through the centre hole in the mounting base and back into the engine oil system.  

When you cut open the filter, debris in found in the outside pleats of the filter media, this should confirm flow direction.  Using compressed air to empty the filter will force oil through the filter media, not out past the check valve.

Clarence

Not to start an argument but that is the same direction of flow I said 

[Guest]

We both agree on the flow, I disagree that introducing air into the can will blow debris into the oil system.  If 100 psi oil won't force debris through the media how would air be able to do it? Or would the air blow the debris backward past the check rubber check valve.

Clarence

[RLCarter]

Ok, "WILL" was a poor choice, the point I was trying to make was I'm not willing to take the chance of possibly introducing debris back in the sump either through the check or the by-pass valves, I would rather clean up a little oil spill if needed, after all your fixing to cut the filter open for inspection which isn't the cleanest job to begin with.

[DaV8or]

1 hour ago, RLCarter said:

Ok, "WILL" was a poor choice, the point I was trying to make was I'm not willing to take the chance of possibly introducing debris back in the sump either through the check or the by-pass valves, I would rather clean up a little oil spill if needed, after all your fixing to cut the filter open for inspection which isn't the cleanest job to begin with.

Agreed. It's a pointless waste of time to blow out the filter. Just crack it loose, let it drain for a few minutes, then take it off and let it drain face down into your oil drain bucket for a few more. Regardless if you use my drain method, or the air blow method, cutting the filter and examining the element is going to be an oily mess.

[DaV8or]

So, since we're back in this thread, I had a look at the oil suction screen location on my IO-360 A1A. I am stumped as to how anybody could remove that and then put it back properly without pulling the motor off the mounts. I can see how you could possibly get a wrench on it, but I can't even touch it with my hands and I have pretty small hands and skinny arms. How in the world you would get the safety wire back on is beyond me. The only things you could remove to gain access that I can figure is the right mag and the prop governor.

If there is a way that people routinely do these, I'd love to see a write up.

[ArtVandelay]

I remember looking at it and with the filter removed it looked like you had access from the top, straight down, wasn't sure if had enough room to pull it out without hitting the firewall, definitely would need a step ladder and long arms to to reach it, I thought it was doable but I'm afraid to try it for the reasons you listed. Anyone know how long it is?

[Andy95W]

Dave/Teejay- welcome to the joys of working on Mooneys.  This is why what should be a 20 minute job becomes a 90 minute job and explains why the safety wire on many suction screens is still painted Lycoming Grey.

The screen itself is only a few inches long and it will come out without removing the engine or magneto.  The threaded end cap pulls off the screen and that allows the maneuverability needed to get it out of the engine compartment.

Safety wiring is the next issue, but patience and practice are the keys.  I also recommend a safety wiring tool like this:

[ArtVandelay]

Safety wiring is the next issue, but patience and practice are the keys.  I also recommend a safety wiring tool like this:

I've only used the locking pliers, can you point me to a video how you use this tool, it's not obvious to me.

[Guest]

On October 8, 2016 at 0:19 PM, DaV8or said:

So, since we're back in this thread, I had a look at the oil suction screen location on my IO-360 A1A. I am stumped as to how anybody could remove that and then put it back properly without pulling the motor off the mounts. I can see how you could possibly get a wrench on it, but I can't even touch it with my hands and I have pretty small hands and skinny arms. How in the world you would get the safety wire back on is beyond me. The only things you could remove to gain access that I can figure is the right mag and the prop governor.

If there is a way that people routinely do these, I'd love to see a write up.

Just a few easy steps:

remove engine cowl,

drain oil sump,

cut and remove safety wire,

remove suction screen nut with 5/8" wrench,

removed nut from screen,

remove screen, inspect for particles,

clean screen,

install screen,

install new MS35769-21 gasket onto nut,

install nut onto end of screen,

screw nut into oil sump,

tighten nut per Lycoming table of limits,

safety wire with MS20995C032 wire,

cut safety wire from filter,

remove filter, cut open and inspect,

install new filter, torque and safety wire with MS20995C032

re fill oil sump,

run up engine and check for leaks,

install engine cowls,

fill out log books.

Repeat in 30 hours and you'll be faster each time.

Clarence

[DaV8or]

32 minutes ago, N1395W said:

Dave/Teejay- welcome to the joys of working on Mooneys.  This is why what should be a 20 minute job becomes a 90 minute job and explains why the safety wire on many suction screens is still painted Lycoming Grey.

The screen itself is only a few inches long and it will come out without removing the engine or magneto.  The threaded end cap pulls off the screen and that allows the maneuverability needed to get it out of the engine compartment.

Safety wiring is the next issue, but patience and practice are the keys.  I also recommend a safety wiring tool like this:

Andy, I see you fly a M20C, that means you have an O-360. Are you sure the suction screen is in the same location? As best I can tell from the Lycoming Direct Drive Overhaul Manual, they can be located at a variety of locations depending on model. Mine seems to be located on the right side rear corner kind of under the prop governor.

I am not familiar with that safety wire tool. It looks like maybe you feed the wire up through the tip and then twist? Does the tip have holes in it?

[DaV8or]

1 hour ago, teejayevans said:

I remember looking at it and with the filter removed it looked like you had access from the top, straight down, wasn't sure if had enough room to pull it out without hitting the firewall, definitely would need a step ladder and long arms to to reach it, I thought it was doable but I'm afraid to try it for the reasons you listed. Anyone know how long it is?

I didn't look from the perspective of the oil filter. I just changed it, but next time it's off, I'll have a look.

[DaV8or]

17 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Just a few easy steps:

remove engine cowl,

drain oil sump,

cut and remove safety wire,

remove suction screen nut with 5/8" wrench,

removed nut from screen,

remove screen, inspect for particles,

clean screen,

install screen,

install new MS35769-21 gasket onto nut,

install nut onto end of screen,

screw nut into oil sump,

tighten nut per Lycoming table of limits,

safety wire with MS20995C032 wire,

re fill oil sump,

run up engine and check for leaks,

install engine cowls,

fill out log books.

Repeat in 30 hours and you'll be faster each time.

Clarence

Great. A little less than useful. How about some helpful hints, like how do I even get my fingers to touch this thing, or what approach do you take with the tools, what things do you move out of the way, if any, or what special tools (like the one pictured above) do you use? I think we all pretty much have the "Cut safety wire, remove nut, remove screen, clean screen, reinstall nut, re-safety wire" concept down.

[Yetti]

There are a couple of tests to be an A or P.  There is a basic test before you get to the A or P. There are also some safety warnings.  If you don't know the basics of turning wrenches get someone to show you.  If you have working knowledge and experience with hand tools, there is nothing tricky about an oil change on a Mooney.  Doing a valve guide cleaning has some tricks and techniques.

[DonMuncy]

The tool has two holes in its "nose". You put the wire in place on the filter housing etc., then thread both ends through the tool and twist as you back out. Not as easy as pliers, but in tight places, it works well.

[Andy95W]

Yes, I have an O-360 but I was talking about the IO-360 location. The O-360 is slightly easier (but not much).

Here is a picture of the suction screen and nut from an actual IO-360.  It is right at 4 1/2" long. 

[ArtVandelay]

One other thing, there is not enough room behind the filter to fit sock and torque wrench, I assume A&Ps have fancy torque wrenches, not the normal socket wrench type.

[DaV8or]

4 minutes ago, N1395W said:

Yes, I have an O-360 but I was talking about the IO-360 location. The O-360 is slightly easier (but not much).

Here is a picture of the suction screen and nut from an actual IO-360.  It is right at 4 1/2" long. 

Hmmm... I'll have to look some more. If this is what's in there, the plug I have my eye on would be a waste of time to take off. That screen would never clear the firewall heater box I don't think.

[Andy95W]

Yes, there are little holes in the end of the safety wire twister.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/wiretwisters3.php?clickkey=1636685

[Guest]

6 hours ago, DaV8or said:

Great. A little less than useful. How about some helpful hints, like how do I even get my fingers to touch this thing, or what approach do you take with the tools, what things do you move out of the way, if any, or what special tools (like the one pictured above) do you use? I think we all pretty much have the "Cut safety wire, remove nut, remove screen, clean screen, reinstall nut, re-safety wire" concept down.

There are no special tricks or techniques other than practice.  It's like me asking you to talk me through my first ILS in IMC. 

Clarence

[DaV8or]

4 hours ago, M20Doc said:

There are no special tricks or techniques other than practice.  It's like me asking you to talk me through my first ILS in IMC. 

Clarence

OK... I guess you and I are talking about a different thing. This makes me believe that what I'm looking at is not the plug for the suction screen, but something else. I'll keep looking.

[ArtVandelay]

OK... I guess you and I are talking about a different thing. This makes me believe that what I'm looking at is not the plug for the suction screen, but something else. I'll keep looking.

BTW, I don't know if it matters but I have 2 mags, as oppose to the dual mag, so access path might be different.

[Guest]

With a few exceptions most 4 cylinder Lycoming engines have the suction screen on the back right corner of the oil sump. The nut is pictured in  Andy's post above.  In four cylinder Mooney's it is right in front of lower right engine mount at the firewall. 

On the Continental engine in a 231/252 the suction screen is on the back left corner of the oil sump, and can be equally challenging to remove.

Clarence

[Guest]

I just grabbed this picture from another thread.  You can see the suction screen nut in the lower right corner of the sump to the left of the intake tube for cylinder 3.