Valuations on 79-201-VREF?

[kris_adams]

Hi Everyone,

After almost 7 years, we are considering getting a plane with 2 more seats.  I realize this will come with insignificant speed increase and significant fuel burn increase. 

I ran my stat's through Vref and it came in at $85k.  Does that sound right given the highlights below?  The #'s are off the top of my head. Everything listed below I've done since I've had it.

1979-201,

• 3200TT
• 300SMOH (in 2011, Gann performance engine, http://www.performanceengines.com/engines.html,GAMI, balannced cylinders), new vacuum pump, plane power alternator, oil cooler overhaul, engine mount sent out and redone (can't remember exactly, maybe just inspect and paint), we did the hoses 1 year before OH, new engine mounts)
• New windows all around
• Garmin 430W, KX155GS, Century IIB with STEC 30 Altitude Hold
• Bladders in Oct 2015 ($14k)
• JPI 730 w/fuel flow linked to 430W
• Maintained initially by Joey Cole MSC, but more recently by a mechanic at KLZU (too hard to get it to/from Joey, but happy to prebuy wherever)
• I'll paint it this fall if I keep it though it looks good from 20' or so
• Consistently maintained
• AeroComfort leather yoke cover

After I go fly it, I think I'm crazy.  Everything is fixed and ready to go after 7 years.

What do you think?

-Kris

 

[Jeev]

I think its a little low, how is the paint and interior?  Pics?

[kris_adams]

A couple of pic's in my profile.

1 minute ago, Jeev said:

I think its a little low, how is the paint and interior?  Pics?

I have a few pic's in my profile.  The interior is beige leather and it pretty good.  Paint needs redone which I will do this fall if I keep it.

Oh yeah, I added Aerocomfort leather yoke covers also.  One of my favorite upgrades.

[Godfather]

Sounds like a good deal to me.  Have any J's sold recently to get a feel of the market?  Personally I've noticed some cheaper planes moving pretty fast...especially the ones that have had recent maintenance bills come close to the asking price.

[Bob_Belville]

For what it's worth a local flight school owner with lots of contacts told me this week that pricing for used Mooney were strengthening.

[Wakeup]

Did you see any speed increase after Carlos overhauled your engine?  I know he likes to make everything go faster.  I think Gann Aviation is awesome.  Rick does a great job as well. He will being doing my annual next month.  

[TWinter]

Since I've been in the process of refinancing my plane I've found out that the VREF means little to nothing when figuring values of our planes.

The boxes for options on the AOPA VREF leave out so many upgrade options. It still lists plenty of OLD technology options, but not much for current. A good example in your case is the bladders. They have a huge value to the buyer, while the VREF puts little or no value on a $12000 upgrade? I don't think I saw a box for that add-on. When plugging mine in there was no place for GDL88, the most modern radio it lists to check is a Garmin 530. I have a GTN750 There is a big price difference when we have them installed, but VREF does not even recognize this...the list goes on and on. 

The VREF will still generate a value even using omitted upgrades and still spits out a number that is pretty good value wise, mine came out in the $71K without even allowing adding in for GDL88, Flightstream 210 and several other high dollar upgrades that were just not found in the VREF list. 

I called a few aviation finance companies mentioned in different thread when I started my refi and most came back at ridiculous values of my plane. The average was about 56K +/-.  

They use the Blue Book value..also not very comprehensive when it comes to listing options. Pretty much all they are concerned with is TT and TSMOH.

I also found it surprising that none of the banks or VREF chart ask nothing about complete logs or accidents? I know the VREF makes a disclaimer at the bottom stating it does not take EVERYTHING into account, but this seems to be about as far as the banks go when creating a value..either for a refi or purchase.

The banks will only allow loan up to 85% value based on the "their" Blue Book. VREF is not accurate and the Blue Book is even worse.

There are so many upgrades that have no impact on the VREF value..

If you are looking for $85K based on VREF I hope you do better than I did when the bank puts the value on it. My VREF came in at $71K on the AOPA site. I called AOPA as an option to refi  and they came in with a value of $56K. He said they use a different schedule for assessing value..The add-ons like I mentioned made no difference to them ( I wish they made no difference to Garmin when I bought them). Long story short I ended up working with my local bank since they didn't rely so much on Blue Book or VREF values and more on my history. I don't put much value in VREF value estimates, but I guess a value has to start somewhere..The rest is between the seller and buyer.

After all this rambling about guestimated values ...I say keep the Mooney Kris. Some things are priceless, like our Mooney birds!!   

 

-Tom

[NotarPilot]

Kris, I'll agree with you that I think you're crazy. You have a great airplane but I understand the need for more seats. I think your valuation was a little low. Like Tom said Vref doesn't have a lot of options for newer avionics and technology. For what it's worth I just refinanced my 1978 201 3 months ago. They said it came in at about $104k. I was shocked as I only paid $82k for it in 2012. I have a mid to high time engine with about 1350 SMOH I had two 430Ws, Stec 30 with GPSS and Alt hold, GDL-69A, and the only major things I added since owning it were all LED exterior lighting, an Insight G3 engine monitor and FS 210. The appraisal came in so high I took money out to upgrade the avionics to two Avidyne IFD 440s and the NGT 9000. 

So based on all that your valuation does seem kind of low.  That being said the plane is only worth what the next guy is willing to pay for it.

[kris_adams]

19 hours ago, Wakeup said:

Did you see any speed increase after Carlos overhauled your engine?  I know he likes to make everything go faster.  I think Gann Aviation is awesome.  Rick does a great job as well. He will being doing my annual next month.  

 I don't really think I've seen any appreciable increase in speed since I o/h the engine.  Right now my inner gear doors are off (one of the screw holes needed repair (id'd at annual)).  Depending on all the variables, I'm seeing 153-155 with the inners off.  I love the engine for sure but I'm not sure it made me any faster

[kris_adams]

20 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

For what it's worth a local flight school owner with lots of contacts told me this week that pricing for used Mooney were strengthening.

Well that's good news Bob.  From what I'm seeing in the twin market they can't hardly give them away still

[kris_adams]

1 hour ago, NotarPilot said:

That being said the plane is only worth what the next guy is willing to pay for it.

Couldn't be said any better.  For sure.  Based on paying $80k for it in 2009 and doing around $65k in upgrades (not maintenance mind you, just real upgrades and engine OH).  $85k is a little tough to swallow.  Seems like $80k with very minor tank weeps would have been an easy sell (and I get to keep my 14+AMU instead of bladders)...