Well, I guess it flies... Now what?

[DaV8or]

15 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Why? While we have a surplus of legacy trainers still in service here, The vast majority of new trainers I see are foreign made. Why would,they have based their HQ in Chino if they didn't plan on selling planes here?

 

They did that because the design expertise to get this job done fast and get it done right is here in the states. Now that it is done, or nearly done, I wouldn't count on anything in Chino to amount to much. I'm sure they hope to sell planes here, but there is the formidable FAA certification process that has bankrupted start ups in the past. Getting these planes to end users in China I suspect will be much, much easier. Getting them to end users here in the US may cost them more than they really want to spend, or have. We shall see.

[DaV8or]

6 hours ago, Shadrach said:

 

I do not believe the so called "small rudder" is an issue either.  It's funny to read that people are drawing conclusions about spin recovery from press releases photos...as though the engineers who designed the thing just picked the shape and size from thin air.  I have every confidence that the airframe is well thought out and the handling will be excellent.  Early A, B and C models have smallish rudders and they recover from spins just fine, they just pick up a tremendous amount of vertical speed in the process. I'm not sure, but I think it's likely that many of our planes were spun during the test flights.

Having said that, there is a history of designers and engineers making vertical stabilizers and rudders too small throughout GA history, including Mooney. Nobody wants a big ugly tail on the thing, but sometimes that's what it takes. Let it be known that I'm not one that is saying they have this wrong. I'm just saying that even in this day and age of computer modeling, and supposed well established engineering principles, only true flight tests will tell the whole story. Witness the Cessna Skycatcher. I'm sure they used all the data known and the very latest computers, yet... a guy had to parachute to save his life.

[DaV8or]

2 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

Not bad. 140 knots, diesel, 3 seats, presumably efficient, and a Mooney tilted tail.

I think that puts it in the ballpark with the Diamond DA-40 except that that plane seats 4. Since cost has not been released, we really can't compare the value.

[cliffy]

Having been at the factory last week let me add a little to the discussion.

1) It will be built in Kerrville! Period, New buildings are planned.

2) They are looking at the long term and sensing a 2 year certification process (much like the Honda Jet has done) and financially planning on same.

3) It looks like a cruise speed of @ 160 kts TAS on less than 8 GPH is possible right now.  Maybe way less than 8 GPH. On Jet A.

Keep China in mind. Anything going there will need to be diesel or turbine as 100 LL just ain't there. 

Does anyone remember the Wing Derringer?  It too was a 2 place (albeit twin engine) airplane but without financing to produce.

The biggest problem with Jet A?   It stinks to high heaven. 

This airplane may make a real good and efficient traveler for a husband and wife with baggage in the 3rd seat area. I've only had more than 2 in  my M20 3 times in 15 years. 

[Schinderhannes]

Here are some pictures from the Aviation EXPO in Palm Springs last October.

[KSMooniac]

It is nowhere close to being finished. The version that flew was a proof-of-concept, not even a prototype or anything resembling a production plane. There is still a lot of testing and engineering work to be done before certification starts.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[dlthig]

I would hope that by 2016 engineers carry more weight than salesmen. Remember Piper's bright idea around 1978-9 to put a T-Tail on the Arrow and Lance? T-Tails on twins are OK, but on a single, not a fan.

[Jerry 5TJ]

8 hours ago, cliffy said:

.....

The biggest problem with Jet A?   It stinks to high heaven. 

....

Yes, it does. 

In the P46T we don't let anything that touches Jet A come into the cabin.  Drain cups, gloves, rags stay in the external baggage compartment. 

Suggestion to Mooney: Provide at least a small external cubbyhole for Jet A contaminated items.  See Piper Meridian for example. 

[Shadrach]

12 hours ago, DaV8or said:

 

They did that because the design expertise to get this job done fast and get it done right is here in the states. Now that it is done, or nearly done, I wouldn't count on anything in Chino to amount to much. I'm sure they hope to sell planes here, but there is the formidable FAA certification process that has bankrupted start ups in the past. Getting these planes to end users in China I suspect will be much, much easier. Getting them to end users here in the US may cost them more than they really want to spend, or have. We shall see.

While I agree that the certification process is formidable, you can't hardly blame it for bankrupting start ups. Poor planning and lack of funding is what bankrupts start ups.  It's not like the certification process is a moving target...  They knew before putting pencil to paper what would be needed to certify a new single. They appear to be well capitalized given the initial investment they made in Kerville facility.  Consider the financial state of Mooney just 3 years ago... Now consider that they were acquired just 2 years and 3 months ago.  They made large investments in modernizing plant and production right out of the gate. They had a full size mock up of a new concept on display 13 months after announcing the acquisition. They've now built and flown a proof of concept.  By the way, the American market is the current market. The Chinese are gearing up and the demand will come, but I'd bet the first M10s will be sold stateside.  I'm usually a skeptic myself, but I have a hard time imagining how things could have gone better for Mooney.

Your mindset reminds me of something I noticed recently when shopping production facilities in China. Every company I contacted was hungry to win my business and eager to get to work. The conversations were much more focused on what can be done as opposed to what can't.  For whatever reason, Americans seem to have grown more jaded, more cautious and more skeptical in recent years. I think those feelings and emotions can likely be justified given the last decade, but they don't make for a very productive outlook.  Here we have a company that has made considerable headway in a very short time.  I'll bet on their track record over the keyboard skeptics...

Edited January 25, 2016 by Shadrach

[Shadrach]

11 hours ago, N9495V said:

Here are some pictures from the Aviation EXPO in Palm Springs last October.

Many things come to mind when looking at that mock up...Ugly is not one of them. I really wish someone would copy that cowl design and make it available for the metal birds.  I see many nods to the legacy aircraft. The head on view of the fuselage looks very similar to the M20.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Shadrach

[rbuck]

36 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Many things come to mind when looking at that mock up. Ugly is not one of them. I really wish someone would copy that cowl design and make it available for the metal birds.  I see many nods to the legacy aircraft. The head on view of the fuselage looks very similar to the M20.

Agreed. I like the door on the pilot's side. Wouldn't that be nice?

[Hank]

The thing I dislike the most is that they have traded the fully-moving tail for drag-inducing trim tabs . . . But they kept the vertical stabilizer upright for cosmetics only.

[Bob_Belville]

I haven't seen Mooney shipment figures... is Mooney International selling the planes that are coming down the production line now? What are we up to, 2 or 3 a month? Again, I have not seen that info lately. 

50 years ago that factory was averaging 3 planes per day. The limiting factor is what can be sold.

[steingar]

2 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

50 years ago that factory was averaging 3 planes per day. The limiting factor is what can be sold.

The same can be said for all the legacy manufacturers.  That's the market today, probably because the prices have gone through the stratosphere.