atn_pilot Posted February 23, 2016 Report Posted February 23, 2016 Just now, Mooneymite said: Yikes! Don't those have the dreaded "geared engines"? You are a brave man. Old wive's tale. Talk to the people who have actually operated them. No scarier than any other very high horsepower piston engine. You do have to baby them, but that's true of the non-geared variety, also. The geared engines is actually a big reason why I'm looking for one. They're quieter than most turboprops and some older jets. Quote
Mooneymite Posted February 23, 2016 Report Posted February 23, 2016 Just now, atn_pilot said: The geared engines is actually a big reason why I'm looking for one. They're quieter than most turboprops and some older jets. I was under the (false?) understanding that geared engines could not be overhauled by anyone except the manufacturer. We have a (once) nice plane corroding itself into bauxite because the owner can't afford to overhaul the geared engine......it was a super plane until it started making metal. Quote
Mooneymite Posted February 23, 2016 Report Posted February 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: One other note... You say you're looking for a well maintained plane but one without the upgrades in panel, paint, interior, etc. I'm wondering if that's the whole problem. It's probably fairly common for someone who diligently maintains and regularly flies their Mooney, to also keep spending money on it in Aspen's, WAAS GPS, paint, interior, etc. And the owners who don't spend money on any upgrades, also don't fly as much and don't spend money or care about the upkeep either. Interesting thought. I wonder if it's a real pattern, or just a thought. Quote
atn_pilot Posted February 23, 2016 Report Posted February 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Mooneymite said: I was under the (false?) understanding that geared engines could not be overhauled by anyone except the manufacturer. We have a (once) nice plane corroding itself into bauxite because the owner can't afford to overhaul the geared engine......it was a super plane until it started making metal. That's a new rumor on me. Not true, though. They're available from all over the place. They ain't cheap, though. Generally expect about $60k for an overhaul. Quote
Mooneymite Posted February 23, 2016 Report Posted February 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, atn_pilot said: They ain't cheap, though. Yes, I guess that's the point.....very pricey overhaul, regardless of who does them. 2X$60K.....Too rich for my 401K. However, they are nice smooth engines.... Howabout a 425!!! 1 Quote
atn_pilot Posted February 23, 2016 Report Posted February 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mooneymite said: Howabout a 425!!! Someday. Quote
glafaille Posted February 23, 2016 Author Report Posted February 23, 2016 1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said: Regarding a pre-buy inspection at an MSC, I think it's different for first time airplane buyers. As a first time buyer myself, I'd never used an A&P before and didn't know any. Therefore I was very hesitant to let the "local guy" do the work and was much more comfortable having a true Mooney expert give me the advice. One other note... You say you're looking for a well maintained plane but one without the upgrades in panel, paint, interior, etc. I'm wondering if that's the whole problem. It's probably fairly common for someone who diligently maintains and regularly flies their Mooney, to also keep spending money on it in Aspen's, WAAS GPS, paint, interior, etc. And the owners who don't spend money on any upgrades, also don't fly as much and don't spend money or care about the upkeep either. Just a thought... HMMMMMM. You may have something there. I'll have to ponder this thought for a while. If true, this does muddy the water somewhat. No one ever said "finding an airplane would be easy"! 1 Quote
steingar Posted February 23, 2016 Report Posted February 23, 2016 4 hours ago, glafaille said: It appears that many mooneyspace guys bought their planes without a thorough pre-buy, without complete logs, 30 year old overhauls, and sometimes without much knowledge of Mooneys at all. Some are new pilots with little knowledge of any aircraft. Luckily most get away with it and end up with a great aircraft from the guy in the "next hangar over". For a few the nightmare begins with the purchase. I commend and admire those that are willing to take the risk. There was a time that I would have "gone for it" too, however now I am at a point in my life where minimizing risk is a good idea. Besides I am not in a hurry and I have read that several mooneyspace guys have searched for a year or more before finding the "right" aircraft. Easy to see now why it would take that long. Mine was examined by a mechanic with me in attendance. i wanted an MSC to go through it and didn't get my wish. I was doing a trade, so I didn't get everything I wanted. No biggie. Mine is missing logs from the sixties and has some ancient damage history. What you want to do is purchase an airplane without any risk. I've owned three airplanes over the last decade and a half, so I think I have some experience in the matter. I can tell you that there is no such thing as a lack of risk in airplane ownership. You could get the airframe of your dreams, one that conforms to everything you've said for the price you want, only to have the engine seize 20 minutes into your flight home. Yes, I've seen it happen. The FAA could come out with some sort of new AD compliance with which destroys the value of your aircraft. Yup, seen it happen. Or they could privatize ATC and we wind up with onerous user fees, again destroying the value of your aircraft. If you want to purchase an aircraft you had better not spend all your money on it. Odds are there will be things to fix. The best security you can get is to have the mechanic who will take care of it for you annual it prior to sale. Other than that Murphy rules with an iron hand. 1 Quote
glafaille Posted February 24, 2016 Author Report Posted February 24, 2016 8 hours ago, Bob_Belville said: I doubt that that $70.000 J meets the rest of your list of requirements. Mid time engine? bladders? Avionics? There will be (expensive) reasons that a J is selling for $70,000. I don't know Bob. Check out this J: http://strategicaircraft.com/1977-mooney-m20-j-201-n201nm/#!prettyPhoto[pp_gal]/5/ Under $70,000 and looks pretty good. It just seems to me that the ceiling of the 60's era Mooneys is capped by the early 201s. Quote
KSMooniac Posted February 24, 2016 Report Posted February 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, glafaille said: I don't know Bob. Check out this J: http://strategicaircraft.com/1977-mooney-m20-j-201-n201nm/#!prettyPhoto[pp_gal]/5/ Under $70,000 and looks pretty good. It just seems to me that the ceiling of the 60's era Mooneys is capped by the early 201s. It is probably in great mechanical condition, but the overhaul is 10+ years old without much use and the panel is pretty much obsolete when looking at modernized stuff in today's market. Cosmetics are ugly, but that is personal opinion. It is likely a great plane to build on, though, but then it won't be a 70 AMU J any longer. And yes, the pre-J Mooneys will likely not be worth more than a J in the market, despite the updates unless you find a very special buyer. There used to be a Super E in TX that had pretty much every mod available and an M-20 Turbos kit to boot. The owner likely had close to 200 AMU in the thing making it perfect for him. The right buyer might have been willing to buy it (not for sale) for 100, but that would be a very small pool of candidates. Having said that, I'd rather pay 70 for a modernized F than that un-updated J. YMMV Quote
Bob_Belville Posted February 24, 2016 Report Posted February 24, 2016 29 minutes ago, glafaille said: I don't know Bob. Check out this J: http://strategicaircraft.com/1977-mooney-m20-j-201-n201nm/#!prettyPhoto[pp_gal]/5/ Under $70,000 and looks pretty good. It just seems to me that the ceiling of the 60's era Mooneys is capped by the early 201s. I think that plane fits my impression of what you'd get for $70,000 in a J. Only 167 hours flown in the last 10 years - since engine overhaul makes the engine suspect, LORAN and ADF are boat anchors. No GPS at all. I would think the $68,900 price will be just the ante and the buyer will have to or want to spend quite a lot soon after acquisition. Not all 201s are the same. '77 was the very first year for the 201 and lacks quite a few of the refinements that came in gradually. Some are significant: gear speed, gross weight, etc. There's a link to a spreadsheet that you might find interesting here: http://www.mooneyevents.com/chrono.htm The link is embedded in the '77 J details. It shows what improvements were introduced over the years. Happy hunting! 1 Quote
atn_pilot Posted February 24, 2016 Report Posted February 24, 2016 Good god, I haven't flown without GPS in over fifteen years. I'm sure I could still BS my way through an NDB approach or a DME arc, but it wouldn't be pretty! I wouldn't even consider buying a plane without IFR GPS nowadays. Quote
Brian_tii Posted February 24, 2016 Report Posted February 24, 2016 On 2/22/2016 at 10:03 PM, atn_pilot said: I'm thinking of selling my C, although it certainly won't do 150 knots. It'll easily do 140 at 10k, and occasionally peak a knot or two above that, but that's about it. No corrosion - check Low time engine & prop - check Good autopilot with alt hold - check Bladder tanks - check Basic but recent avionics - check (unless you consider a 430 fancy) Standard 6-pack - check Excellent maintenance history - check (maintained by MSCs by prior owner, and by reputable FBO since I bought it) Serviceable paint & interior - check (paint is older, but looks great) Speed mods - NOPE Engine monitor - NOPE, but does have a Shadin fuel totalizer 1965 or newer - check (1968) Less than $55k - check (I'll sell it for $50k, in fact) It does have a few years of missing logbooks back in the 80s. Not sure if that's a problem for you. With a few decades of annuals since then, didn't bother me. There was a prop strike years ago, but engine overhaul and prop replaced after that. I just put a brand new alternator in it. Not a single squawk to be found. My mechanic has a copy of the keys, and if there's so much as a loose sun visor, I tell them to take the plane and fix it. I've only had it for about a year, and I love the plane, but as a former airline guy, I miss my twin engines, weather radar, and cruising in the flight levels. I'm planning to trade in the super-efficiency of the Mooney for the super-comfort of a Cessna 421. Just need to sell the Mooney first. I've attached some pics. Is this located in the Atlanta area? Quote
atn_pilot Posted February 24, 2016 Report Posted February 24, 2016 Yep, KFFC, south of Atlanta. Quote
Brian_tii Posted February 24, 2016 Report Posted February 24, 2016 Hmm... tempting. I'm up by kcni and rent lowly 172s out of KVPC. Quote
atn_pilot Posted February 24, 2016 Report Posted February 24, 2016 Burn less gas and get there faster with a Mooney. Seriously, it's a great plane. I'd keep it even after buying a 421 if I could justify owning two airplanes. If you're down this way and want to take a look, let me know. I haven't actually gotten it listed anywhere yet, but it will be soon. Quote
Brian_tii Posted February 24, 2016 Report Posted February 24, 2016 Do you have anymore details? Shoulder belts? When were the engine / prop done? Is the 430 waas enabled? Trying to get an idea as to what the ads-b out picture would look like. Sounds like a really nice aircraft. Thanks, Brian Quote
atn_pilot Posted February 24, 2016 Report Posted February 24, 2016 Sadly, no shoulder belts or WAAS. Prop is almost brand new, engine has 1400 hours on it, but only 400 since top overhaul and crankcase inspection. Compressions all in the 70s. After the top, it probably has a good 1000 hours left in the engine, I figure. The plane did two high dollar annuals at MSCs in the last three years to get everything tip top shape. But you would need to put money into it in a few years for ADS-B. 1 Quote
rbridges Posted February 24, 2016 Report Posted February 24, 2016 19 minutes ago, atn_pilot said: Sadly, no shoulder belts or WAAS. Prop is almost brand new, engine has 1400 hours on it, but only 400 since top overhaul and crankcase inspection. Compressions all in the 70s. After the top, it probably has a good 1000 hours left in the engine, I figure. The plane did two high dollar annuals at MSCs in the last three years to get everything tip top shape. But you would need to put money into it in a few years for ADS-B. No ADS-B would not be a big deal to me. Two simple options: upgrade to WAAS and add a KT-74. That's around $6k plus install. Another option is a stratus transponder or one of the "all in one" packages. Those are going for 3.5K plus install. In the grand scheme of things, getting ADS-B compliant is one of the cheaper problems. 1 Quote
Brian_tii Posted February 24, 2016 Report Posted February 24, 2016 9 minutes ago, rbridges said: No ADS-B would not be a big deal to me. Two simple options: upgrade to WAAS and add a KT-74. That's around $6k plus install. Another option is a stratus transponder or one of the "all in one" packages. Those are going for 3.5K plus install. In the grand scheme of things, getting ADS-B compliant is one of the cheaper problems. Yup, I know, also L3 has a fairly attractive all in one solution too. I personally love the concept of ads-b in / out so its something I was curious about since anything I purchased would probably get upgraded to support it asap. The 430w just makes it a little easier out of the gate. 1 Quote
Guest Posted February 25, 2016 Report Posted February 25, 2016 Private message me Glafaille if your still looking to buy. Quote
glafaille Posted February 25, 2016 Author Report Posted February 25, 2016 Guest: I'm still in the market for a plane but can't send you a pm until you are a registered user on mooneyspace. Perhaps you can pm me? Quote
glafaille Posted April 23, 2016 Author Report Posted April 23, 2016 Mooneyspace Friends: Good news and bad news! Good news is, I am now an airplane owner! Bad news is that it's not a Mooney, it's a Grumman Tiger. The Mooney hunt was wearing me down, so many variables, so many wants and too few planes scattered about in out of the way areas of the country. A Grumman Tiger popped up in my back yard with most of everything I want, at the price I was willing to pay, so I jumped on it. Almost as fast as a "C" model Mooney, but 1/2 the insurance coat and about 40% less for maintenance. Certainly not as sexy as a Mooney but it will fulfill the mission. Many thanks to everyone who tolerated my moodiness during my airplane hunt, and special thanks to everyone that helped in the process. I'll miss everyone here on Mooneyspace. Quote
TWinter Posted April 23, 2016 Report Posted April 23, 2016 11 minutes ago, glafaille said: Mooneyspace Friends: Good news and bad news! Good news is, I am now an airplane owner! Bad news is that it's not a Mooney, it's a Grumman Tiger. The Mooney hunt was wearing me down, so many variables, so many wants and too few planes scattered about in out of the way areas of the country. A Grumman Tiger popped up in my back yard with most of everything I want, at the price I was willing to pay, so I jumped on it. Almost as fast as a "C" model Mooney, but 1/2 the insurance coat and about 40% less for maintenance. Certainly not as sexy as a Mooney but it will fulfill the mission. Many thanks to everyone who tolerated my moodiness during my airplane hunt, and special thanks to everyone that helped in the process. I'll miss everyone here on Mooneyspace. Hey congrats.. Flying is flying..As long a you are happy then it's all good!! Glad you found something that works well for you. Post some pictures when you get a chance and congrats!! -Tom Quote
Marauder Posted April 23, 2016 Report Posted April 23, 2016 You'll be back. They always come back... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote
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