ChristianGodin Posted October 11, 2015 Report Posted October 11, 2015 I am movin up. Lately I have been flying 2005/2006 Cirrus SR22 and I like them but my hart is still with Mooney. So I started to look for Ovation. I am very confused. Upgrading G1000 seemed ridiculous. It looks like I should stay away from a G1000. Should I look for a 2000 Ovation with traditional instrument and GNC 430/530 easily upgradeble or a 2005/2006 with G1000 that seemed more or less upgradable for now. Thank You Quote
gsengle Posted October 11, 2015 Report Posted October 11, 2015 Personally I think the best values are early ovations through say '98... Nice big clean upgradable panels... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
Cruiser Posted October 11, 2015 Report Posted October 11, 2015 Quite a dilemma. Unless you settle for a 15 year old air frame, the only choice is G1000. They are upgradeable but not under your control and not without deep pockets. Seems as the "all in one basket" has it's own drawbacks. I suppose if you got one with G1000 WAAS you would have most of the technology except for ADSB. I don't think Garmin has a solution approved yet. There is a thread on G1000 non WAAS units elsewhere on this message board. Quote
gsengle Posted October 11, 2015 Report Posted October 11, 2015 Many of those "15 year old" airframes are like new.. Settling would be a 1976J or older... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
Andy95W Posted October 11, 2015 Report Posted October 11, 2015 Many of those "15 year old" airframes are like new.. Settling would be a 1976J or older... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk "Settling" is fairly strong language for all of us flying M20A-Gs. My plane fits my mission. I'm not offended, just glad there is a Mooney for each of us. 1 Quote
gsengle Posted October 11, 2015 Report Posted October 11, 2015 Ha, the previous poster suggested that an older ovation was settling if you wanted an ovation... Let's not take it out of context Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
gsengle Posted October 11, 2015 Report Posted October 11, 2015 Ha, the previous poster suggested that an older ovation was settling *if you wanted an ovation*... Let's not take it out of context I was pointing out you'd have to go way further back for it to be much of a settle... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
donkaye Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) I like flying the G1000 airplanes---when they are someone else's. The upgrade is not under your control and may not even be possible. If possible, you will be held hostage to possible outrages upgrade fees because you have no choice. I wouldn't consider buying a G1000 airplane for that reason---even if it was heavily discounted. In my opinion you're not moving up, you're moving into never never land. Can we say Edsel? Better to buy an upgradable DX model where you can choose your upgrade path. The price you pay for the upgrade, however, is a very stressful upgrade time frame. Although wildly happy with the outcome of mine, I really wouldn't want to go through the process again. Edited October 12, 2015 by donkaye 2 Quote
carusoam Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) There is much information flowing from the factory regarding updating G1000 panels for WAAS and ADSB. I would gladly welcome a G1000 panel. Especially if it comes with a GTN for WAAS... Search around to see information from the latest Mooney group meeting in Florida.... Welcome to the O club! -a- Edited October 12, 2015 by carusoam Quote
PMcClure Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 I am very happy with my 13 year old airframe. Solid as a rock. I like the G1000 system but the "old stuff" works very well and a 430/530w with the 225 autopilot is a great and very capable set up. Personally, I would not touch the non Waas G-1000 planes until there is a path forward. 1 Quote
Fipdublin Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 Personally I think the best values are early ovations through say '98... Nice big clean upgradable panels... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk +1 Quote
carusoam Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 FIP, the silent R pilot! Congratulations on your second post. Join us more often. Best regards, -a- Quote
Fipdublin Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 FIP, the silent R pilot! Congratulations on your second post. Join us more often. Best regards, -a- As the the caption says "Newbie". Much to learn here. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 I'm a little slow, doesn't a new Acclaim from the factory come with ADSB & G1000? Can't they just retrofit current the current hardware,software changes? Quote
carusoam Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 TJ, I think the challenge is more with the boxes that are already installed. It requires replacing expensive hardware and software to update to WAAS and ADSB. For buying the new equipment, get the modern stuff already updated. It costs a lot, but you don't need to buy it twice. Deb/Dave posted a paragraph of details that were presented at the Mooney fly in Florida recently. Best regards, -a- Quote
donkaye Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) I'm a little slow, doesn't a new Acclaim from the factory come with ADSB & G1000? Can't they just retrofit current the current hardware,software changes? My understanding is that only ADS-B Out is available. No ADS-B In on any of the new Mooneys. Edited October 12, 2015 by donkaye Quote
kmyfm20s Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 The G1000 situation is sad! It kept me from buying a newer long body. I went with an older airframe that had significant panel work already completed then finished it off the exact way I wanted it. Couldn't be happier. Quote
aviatoreb Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 The situation with G1000 is sad in general. For any airframe. I was flying around in a steam gauge DA40 about 6 or 7 years ago - without autopilot. Then I wanted an autopilot and the only upgrade path was a new plane. That was a very frustrating story in its own. So I was looking at newer G1000 DA40s since I really like that plane. Then I learned about the expense of upgrading to Waas - at least the upgrade path was there. And I realized it would be cheaper in the waas part to install a waas 430W from scratch and then install an aspen, then to do the waas g1000 upgrade. That got me annoyed so I decided to go steam gauge and if I wanted glass panel to do it with components rather than an all in one that holds the plane hostage. (And once I started shopping steam gauge with autopilot, what do you know, I ended up mooney rocket instead of diamond). Now all the Diamond people are clamoring waiting for someone to certify for them an ADSB solution, and if and when it comes it will be way more expensive than the $3.5k trig unit i had installed over a year ago. Quote
PMcClure Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) The situation with G1000 is sad in general. For any airframe. I was flying around in a steam gauge DA40 about 6 or 7 years ago - without autopilot. Then I wanted an autopilot and the only upgrade path was a new plane. That was a very frustrating story in its own. So I was looking at newer G1000 DA40s since I really like that plane. Then I learned about the expense of upgrading to Waas - at least the upgrade path was there. And I realized it would be cheaper in the waas part to install a waas 430W from scratch and then install an aspen, then to do the waas g1000 upgrade. That got me annoyed so I decided to go steam gauge and if I wanted glass panel to do it with components rather than an all in one that holds the plane hostage. (And once I started shopping steam gauge with autopilot, what do you know, I ended up mooney rocket instead of diamond). Now all the Diamond people are clamoring waiting for someone to certify for them an ADSB solution, and if and when it comes it will be way more expensive than the $3.5k trig unit i had installed over a year ago. I did most of my training with a DA40 and C172SP with the G1000. It was a great set up to fly, except when something went wrong. Back then the used Ovations with G1000 were $150k more than the steam gauges. Also, you are locked in with the G1000 platform as things change going forward. I didn't see the additional value so I set out to find a late model with steam gauges. I have not found the steam gauges are any less reliable to operate. At least with the steam gauges you can replace components or upgrade individual systems as time goes on. The only thing that has changed in the last few years is that the 05-07 non Waas planes are now discounted because no one wants them. If I could pick up a 2005 G1000 GX or a 2004 with a nice 430/530 with Waas for the same price, I would still probably go with the 2004. Waas is very important and becoming critical equipment to fly long distances, in busy airspace or to remote airports. Most people that are looking at a late model Mooney will fit at lest 2 of these missions. Edited October 12, 2015 by PMcClure spelling 1 Quote
Jeff_S Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Well, as someone who recently moved into a G1000 pre-WAAS Ovation I can give you my feedback. Of course, if you've got the moolah, buy something 2008 or newer and you'll have WAAS. If not, there is a legitimate question about what the upgrade path will be, but I choose to feel confident that there will be a path that is effective and reasonably priced. In private enterprise, someone always steps in to fill a gap. That said, what I get by flying around in my current non-WAAS is a really nice system with these benefits: 1) Only one set of databases to buy each year and easy monthly updates.2) Integrated panel that is easy to navigate (after a learning process).3) A "low rise" panel that is a good 2" shorter than the DX or steam gauge models, which makes forward visibility far superior in my view (pun intended).4) If you get Synthetic Vision, you get the way cool "flight path marker" which makes instrument approaches ridiculously simple. Just put the green circle on the end of the runway and fly to minimums keeping it there. As long as you break out correctly, you can't miss.5) I've been told that the GFC700 A/P is "da bomb" and it may be, but the S-TEC 55X is still plenty good, and does most, if not all, of things a GA pilot will need. So I would tell you to not be afraid of an earlier non-WAAS G1000 plane if its other characteristics suit you well. But it is admittedly a risk you have to be willing to take. Edited October 12, 2015 by Jeff_S Quote
gsengle Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 Are you sure your panel is lower? Or is it only lower than the really early Ovations? They did lower the panel mid way through the steam gauge era. I have the higher early panel though, and I see over it fine and on my plane it's the cowling, not the panel, that limits visibility as far as I can tell. I rather like the space on my panel, but it's definitely a consideration looking at various model years. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
gsengle Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 Isn't this ovation 2 for example also with lowered panel using this style of engine gauges? (photo from Controller) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
Jeff_S Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 I sat in some early Ovations with steam gauge and some that had been converted with newer GTN/G500, etc., and the overall panel is definitely taller. I'm not saying you couldn't get used to it, but my wife definitely preferred the lower panel in the G1000 so that was also a significant determinant in my decision. Quote
gsengle Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 Yes mine is taller, but the ovation 2s had steam gauges *and* lower panel... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote
PMcClure Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 My ovation 2 looks the same as yours Quote
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