Electric Flaps Troubleshooting

[Marauder]

For those with electric flaps on a F model, could use some troubleshooting help. My 75 F has the slider flaps lever. It has detects for the 15° and 33° positions.

 

This morning while doing the pre-flight, I extend the flaps and when I went to retract them, they stayed down. I slid the lever up and down a few times and they finally retracted. I was not able to reproduce the problem. When I went to takeoff,  I extended the flaps and they went down to the correct position. I tried to retract them and they stayed down, I moved the lever to full flaps and they moved down to 33° but wouldn't retract.

Back at the hangar, I slid the flap lever back and forth a few times and nothing happened. I shut down and pulled all the breakers except the flap's breaker. I left the flap lever in the up position and pulled the breaker and cycled it a few times. I could hear a relay click near where the flap motor should be. On one of the cycles of the breaker, the flaps retracted.

Anyone know how the flap motor works on my model? Anyone ever had to have a flap motor rebuild or replaced? If so, where/who did the work? Thanks for any help!

[Jim F]

Hi Marauder,

i have a 231 and had a simaler problem but mine was inflight and on a go around. If the flap up switch is closed the flaps will not retract and my switch stuck closed. I pull the lower rear panel and cleaned the flap up switch and lubed it with silicon spray. I lube both switches at each annual. 

Good luck

[Marauder]

Hi Marauder,

i have a 231 and had a simaler problem but mine was inflight and on a go around. If the flap up switch is closed the flaps will not retract and my switch stuck closed. I pull the lower rear panel and cleaned the flap up switch and lubed it with silicon spray. I lube both switches at each annual. 

Good luck

Thanks Jim. For what you described there are 2 switches? Is that correct?

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[Jim F]

There should be two switches up limit and down limit switches.  Going by memory the up limit switch is normally closed and opens on contact. If it stays depressed when the flaps moved down then the up limit switch is open and power can't get to the flap moter. With the panel off and flaps down take some contact cleaner and spray and actuate the up limit switch 10 times. Then silicon spray. If it happens again get a new switch. While your there do the down switch. 

See ya

[N201MKTurbo]

If you are away from home, get out of the plane and jiggle the flaps up and down. This will usually get them going again until you get home so you can clean the switches.

[Marauder]

If you are away from home, get out of the plane and jiggle the flaps up and down. This will usually get them going again until you get home so you can clean the switches.

Fortunately I am home. Just missed the fly-in with Stinky Pants and crew this afternoon.

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[Jim F]

If you are away from home, get out of the plane and jiggle the flaps up and down. This will usually get them going again until you get home so you can clean the switches.

N201MKTurbo. I have a question on your photo of Old yeller. Can you PM me?  

[carusoam]

Part of the next fly-in we should cover the switches related to the various flap settings.  They seem to have the same maladies from the first to the last Mooneys.  Mine has difficulty on some days finding the T/O position.

best regards,

-a-

[mike_elliott]

 

 

For those with electric flaps on a F model, could use some troubleshooting help. My 75 F has the slider flaps lever. It has detects for the 15° and 33° positions.

 

 

 

This morning while doing the pre-flight, I extend the flaps and when I went to retract them, they stayed down. I slid the lever up and down a few times and they finally retracted. I was not able to reproduce the problem. When I went to takeoff,  I extended the flaps and they went down to the correct position. I tried to retract them and they stayed down, I moved the lever to full flaps and they moved down to 33° but wouldn't retract.

Back at the hangar, I slid the flap lever back and forth a few times and nothing happened. I shut down and pulled all the breakers except the flap's breaker. I left the flap lever in the up position and pulled the breaker and cycled it a few times. I could hear a relay click near where the flap motor should be. On one of the cycles of the breaker, the flaps retracted.

Anyone know how the flap motor works on my model? Anyone ever had to have a flap motor rebuild or replaced? If so, where/who did the work? Thanks for any help!

 

check for corrosion on the flap limit switch terminals and the flap actuator. Just because your plane isn't in Florida doesn't mean it wont corrode as some might suggest. This happened to me in my previous F when I was based in Indiana once.

[Hank]

Part of the next fly-in we should cover the switches related to the various flap settings.  They seem to have the same maladies from the first to the last Mooneys.  Mine has difficulty on some days finding the T/O position.

best regards,

-a-

ya'll justhave overly complicated flap mechanisms, with sliders, detents, etc. My electric flaps move both ways with this three-position spring-loaded switch. Push the switch up or down, the flaps move; let go, they stop moving. It's the little thing above the mixture lever, very easy to reach and raise flaps on rollout while holding the throttle at Idle, too.  

[Yetti]

Hmm one blue and one black prop control.  I have a black one.

[Hank]

Hmm one blue and one black prop control.  I have a black one.

I suspect the blue one has been replaced. Any idea when "blue" came to be preferred? Guess it helps sort out the color blind complex pilots . . .

[Marauder]

Mine was originally black. I was amazed to see some of the Fs are set up with throttle, mixture and then prop.

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[Marauder]

Ok. I spent some time with the plane today and was able to clean, using a CRC electronics cleaner, the components that make up the electric flap system. There was some crud on stuff and I cleaned as much as could. I saw a pretty good collection of relays and switches and wondered if anyone who is familiar with the system can let me know the function for each component?

After cleaning the components, letting them dry, I sprayed them with a silicone spray. The problem is now intermittent and is actually better than over the weekend. Here is what I am currently seeing;

> The flaps will extend normally to either the 15 or 33 degree position. 

> The flaps won't retract consistently from either position. When I left the plane they retracted normally from both positions, but I did have one occurrence where it would not retract.

> All of my testing was when the flaps were in an extended position and I used the flap breaker to power the system with the flap lever in the up position. I kept cycling the breaker until they retracted. I could hear a relay click every time I cycled the breaker.

So what am I dealing with?

 

[KSMooniac]

Intermittent limit switch would be my guess...might try a little/light percussive maintenance, but be prepared to replace. Maxwell changed mine a few years ago and the cost was not terrible.

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[Marauder]

Here are the pictures;

A couple of relays:

A switch at the front of the flaps control shaft

A couple of pictures of the contact near the motor:

So, my esteemed colleagues, how does this system work? What are each of the component's role in operating this system?

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[Marauder]

BTW -- those were the "before" pictures...

[ArtVandelay]

BTW -- those were the "before" pictures...

Wow, a lot of dirt, btw, those switches can be found on Amazon for a few bucks, have the hangar fairy replace them.

AC 250V 16A SPDT Short Hinge Roller Lever Momentary Miniature Micro Switch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DCAI9X0/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_ltehwbYZPFF0Y

[N201MKTurbo]

Those are not the correct switches. The correct ones have screw terminals. The manufacturers part number is in the parts manual. They are about $15 each new. I found 10 brand new ones on EBAY a couple of years ago for $5 for the lot.

Marauder, your system is much more complicated then most because of the preset positions. Mine only has the two switches on the screw. It looks like the two switches on the arm set the intermediate positions. So it could be any of them, or the relays.

it is still most likely the switches, especially sense it got better when you cleaned them. When you clean them you have to really hose them down with the solvent. It is best if you are continuously actuating the switch while it is wet with solvent. This will get as much inside as possible. Move the flaps to positions where nothing is pushing on the levers so you can actuate them. Clean the outside before you shoot it at the little thingy that sticks out of the switch body so you don't wash dirt into the switch. 

If you are not successful at cleaning them and want to replace them, let me know and I'll find the correct part number for the switches if you can't.

[Marauder]

Those are not the correct switches. The correct ones have screw terminals. The manufacturers part number is in the parts manual. They are about $15 each new. I found 10 brand new ones on EBAY a couple of years ago for $5 for the lot.

Marauder, your system is much more complicated then most because of the preset positions. Mine only has the two switches on the screw. It looks like the two switches on the arm set the intermediate positions. So it could be any of them, or the relays.

it is still most likely the switches, especially sense it got better when you cleaned them. When you clean them you have to really hose them down with the solvent. It is best if you are continuously actuating the switch while it is wet with solvent. This will get as much inside as possible. Move the flaps to positions where nothing is pushing on the levers so you can actuate them. Clean the outside before you shoot it at the little thingy that sticks out of the switch body so you don't wash dirt into the switch. 

If you are not successful at cleaning them and want to replace them, let me know and I'll find the correct part number for the switches if you can't.

Thanks for the details. I will have them cleaned again and see where I am. Not sure when those switches may have been changed. I have never had work done on the flaps since I have owned my plane (24 years). I will keep you posted.

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[carusoam]

Chris,

Need someone to operate the switch while you spray?

or you operate the switch, and have someone else sprays?

Your choice,

-a-

[Jim F]

Does any one have a schematic?  

Marauder, as N201MKTurbo said they are tough to clean. The actuator on the switch is under the metal tab right by the roller. Try the red tube with contact cleaner at each corner and actuate the switch with your finger. This should be done when the switch is not in contact with the motor or arm. I think the up limit is the one on the left ( in your last pic) with the black side showing.  A schematic would really help.

If you cleaned off all of the lube from the flap motor you should lube before you close it up.

Jim

[Marauder]

Does any one have a schematic?  

Marauder, as N201MKTurbo said they are tough to clean. The actuator on the switch is under the metal tab right by the roller. Try the red tube with contact cleaner at each corner and actuate the switch with your finger. This should be done when the switch is not in contact with the motor or arm. I think the up limit is the one on the left ( in your last pic) with the black side showing.  A schematic would really help.

If you cleaned off all of the lube from the flap motor you should lube before you close it up.

Jim

I actually have the service manuals and will be taking it into the office tomorrow for one of the EEs to tell me what everything is doing.

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[Yetti]

permanent magnet motor on the flaps.   Runs one way when the positive and neg are set,the other way when they are reversed.  The Relays reverse the polarity

 

First picture is relays.  There is probably an up relay and a down relay. or a current interrupt relay

 

The second picture is probably the current interrupt for flap position middle flap position.  

There is also a double pole single throw switch that is connected to the flap position lever in the cockpit. 

 

Third and forth picture are up and down limit switch.   When activated they would only let the opposite current flow but not the current flow that would allow you to go past the limit.  

[N201MKTurbo]

Here are the correct switches:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/V3L-3/480-5229-ND/2748876?WT.srch=1

A bit more then I remember, they are $88.33 each.

Like I said before, I found some on EBAY for cheap.