Has thank you to ALPA

[charlesual]

Reading some of these posts on ALPA, it's easy to come away with a really bad taste. While I don't agree with everything ALPA does, (including this issue) they do A LOT of good things too. Collective bargaining for better work rules, pay and safety is their primary imperative but their political objectives include lobbying to keep our skies safer. My point is ALPA isn't all bad and members of ALPA don't necessarily agree with every ALPA position. From where I stand, ALPA does way more good then harm.

Charlie

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[aviatoreb]

Reading some of these posts on ALPA, it's easy to come away with a really bad taste. While I don't agree with everything ALPA does, (including this issue) they do A LOT of good things too. Collective bargaining for better work rules, pay and safety is their primary imperative but their political objectives include lobbying to keep our skies safer. My point is ALPA isn't all bad and members of ALPA don't necessarily agree with every ALPA position. From where I stand, ALPA does way more good then harm.

Charlie

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Except for that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?

[bonal]

Nice Kelly's Heroes speak Oddball

Oops, forgot smiley face signifying like...

"Take it easy big Joe some of these guys got sensitive feelings"

Best movie ever made

[Hank]

. . . just for the record, we don't have a choice to be a member of the union or not.

 

That right there is where things start going wrong with unions. It's a free country, but "if you want to work for <insert company>, you have to pay us out of every check you get."

 

While ALPA may not have violent strikes like some places, they still pull plenty of chickensh!t moves. They don't care about anything except making money and holding onto power. I dont' respect any of them. It's just a matter of degree. Some poop is stinkier than other poop, but it's all poop if you know what I mean.

[mike_elliott]

I was once a conscripted ALPA card carrier.  One of the greatest pleasures when quitting the airlines was parting ways with that crooked outfit.  Not surprisingly,  I continued to receive bills for dues since I had never allowed them access to my paycheck and always wrote them a check.  I ignored the bills for some time after leaving my last job and I started receiving threatening letters.  Fearing they might start collections proceedings but still irreverent of the so-called organization, I wrote "DECEASED" across the face of one of my statements and returned it.  They then required a mountain of supporting paperwork from my "widow" to let me off the hook and RIP.  I never responded and the bills and requests eventually subsided.  I detest those contemptible money grubbing @$$holes!     

your congress critters ought to hear this from you also.

[mike_elliott]

 

We don't have a clue what the heck ALPA national is doing half the time... Or all the time. We're not involved with that, and we are really only paying attention to what our airlines MEC (Master Executive Council) tells us. If you did that, the pilots would be clueless and have no idea what you're talking about. It's not our fault, and just for the record, we don't have a choice to be a member of the union or not.

 

Oh, that is so sad. You are not involved, are clueless what your organization is doing, can only learn what one guy tells you about what is going on, don't have a choice to be a member or not, and its not your fault.

Sounds like what happened in Benghazi...

[Parker_Woodruff]

Oh, that is so sad. You are not involved, are clueless what your organization is doing, can only learn what one guy tells you about what is going on, don't have a choice to be a member or not, and its not your fault.

Sounds like what happened in Benghazi...

Honestly Mike, that's how it is. They can email the pilots every day for a month talking about how they've got the pitchforks raised at management. Then they'll go silent for two months while they claim to be negotiating. Can't find out anything about anything.

They only time they talk is when they email grammatically incorrect messages to pilots that are often the most illogical statements one could ever find.

[N601RX]

At some point someone has to elect these "Leaders". I personally do not want anyone else negotiating on my behalf, I'm perfectly capable of doing that myself and will only have my interest in mind when doing so. That is the way most private industries work when accepting a job and negotiating pay and benefits. Other than airlines I can't think of many other large professional groups who are represented by a union.

[MyNameIsNobody]

http://youtu.be/Csv1wXOr5tY

Capitalism and rational thought wins!....

Must be a movie

[Andy95W]

I personally do not want anyone else negotiating on my behalf, I'm perfectly capable of doing that myself and will only have my interest in mind when doing so. That is the way most private industries work when accepting a job and negotiating pay and benefits. Other than airlines I can't think of many other large professional groups who are represented by a union.

The difference is that your company actually values your service, experience, and abilities and are willing to compensate you fairly for those qualities.

Airlines see their pilots as a necessary but unwelcome expense to their bottom line. They do not see the value added of years of experience in a wide array of conditions.

Who would you rather have flying your family around, a pilot with 20 years and 15,000 hours or 3 years and 2,000 hours? Both would be legal by the FAR's. The Airline would rather you had the 3 year pilot- because he's cheaper.

BTW, I've been lucky to have worked for two pretty good airlines, and even I've seen this in action. If any of you were to work for a truly shitty company that treats its pilots like crap (Daver328 mentioned Trans States Airlines) you would have a VERY different perspective on this issue.

But I'm with all of you about 3rd Class Medical Reform. ALPA should butt out of the issue.

[Parker_Woodruff]

If they would just have a real pay structure that makes sense there wouldn't be the problem mentioned in the previous post.

 

FO = X Salary

CA = Y Salary

 

First year or two probation has a steep drop off for training.  Keeps people from jumping ship unless there is a really good reason to do so.

 

The unions like the sliding scales that currently exist.

[M20F]

The unions like the sliding scales that currently exist.

Unions almost exclusively all follow a seniority model which by definition means the higher you are the better pay, vacation, routes, etc. you gain. This gets paid for by the more junior membership. Nothing wrong with unions but compensation with them is time based whereas in something like corporate it is experience based. Both valid models with differing pluses/minuses.

In the context of the general conversation ALPA gets paid to advocate for its membership not aviation at large. AOPA gets paid to advocate for aviation at large, particularly for GA. I don't see why people find it unusual that ALPA would come out against this, they are just doing what they feel best benefits their membership.

[mike_elliott]

In the context of the general conversation ALPA gets paid to advocate for its membership not aviation at large. AOPA gets paid to advocate for aviation at large, particularly for GA. I don't see why people find it unusual that ALPA would come out against this, they are just doing what they feel best benefits their membership.

 and therein lies the rub..How do they feel it truly benefit their membership? I could understand it if it were the AMA, (hummmm...have they accepted a large donation lately from the AMA?)

[M20F]

and therein lies the rub..How do they feel it truly benefit their membership? I could understand it if it were the AMA, (hummmm...have they accepted a large donation lately from the AMA?)

They feel having pilots without medicals flying near airlines to be bad. I am not saying this is good or bad logic but their letter is clear on their view.

I am an NRA member and in their mind you should be able to carry a rocket launcher on a 747. I don't necessarily agree with that but it follows the slippery slope principal. Once you start moving the line in the sand it is difficult and expensive to stop further movement, so the logic is fight everything. If this legislation fails it doesn't impact airlines pilots at all but if it passes it is foreseeable this could create an avenue for something negative to occur for them. All about keeping the status quo. Remember this is an exercise in political action both sides, not a reasoned debate per se.

The best course of action is fund the side which supports your position (pro or con) and write/call your representative. Debating what ALPA is doing isn't going to have any impact on the outcome though.

[MyNameIsNobody]

They feel having pilots without medicals flying near airlines to be bad. I am not saying this is good or bad logic but their letter is clear on their view.

I am an NRA member and in their mind you should be able to carry a rocket launcher on a 747. I don't necessarily agree with that but it follows the slippery slope principal. Once you start moving the line in the sand it is difficult and expensive to stop further movement, so the logic is fight everything. If this legislation fails it doesn't impact airlines pilots at all but if it passes it is foreseeable this could create an avenue for something negative to occur for them. All about keeping the status quo. Remember this is an exercise in political action both sides, not a reasoned debate per se.

The best course of action is fund the side which supports your position (pro or con) and write/call your representative. Debating what ALPA is doing isn't going to have any impact on the outcome though.

Calling you out. NRA analogy is blatantly false. Maybe you should stop being a member if you are going to make utterly ridiculous statements about an organization that you purport to have an affiliation.

[M20F]

Calling you out. NRA analogy is blatantly false. Maybe you should stop being a member if you are going to make utterly ridiculous statements about an organization that you purport to have an affiliation.

It's called hyperbole which I think most people smart enough to fly an airplane can discern (this last part is called sarcasm/passive aggressive so you don't get confused further).

[MyNameIsNobody]

Unions almost exclusively all follow a seniority model which by definition means the higher you are the better pay, vacation, routes, etc. you gain. This gets paid for by the more junior membership. Nothing wrong with unions but compensation with them is time based whereas in something like corporate it is experience based. Both valid models with differing pluses/minuses.

In the context of the general conversation ALPA gets paid to advocate for its membership not aviation at large. AOPA gets paid to advocate for aviation at large, particularly for GA. I don't see why people find it unusual that ALPA would come out against this, they are just doing what they feel best benefits their membership.

Really?

NOPE. AOPA is for GA. Not commercial aviation.

No, they are not and you as a GA pilot owner should realize this. You are part of the problem for GA not the solution. The fact that you can not see that is troubling...

Agenda?

[MyNameIsNobody]

It's called hyperbole which I think most people smart enough to fly an airplane can discern (this last part is called sarcasm/passive aggressive so you don't get confused further).

Yup. You are what I thought you to be. Thank you for confirmation.

[M20F]

Really?

NOPE. AOPA is for GA. Not commercial aviation.

No, they are not and you as a GA pilot owner should realize this. You are part of the problem for GA not the solution. The fact that you can not see that is troubling...

Agenda?

In reading through most of your posts here it is fairly clear to me your agenda. I am going to drop out of this and future discussions with you.

[MyNameIsNobody]

. Happy days

[MyNameIsNobody]

I, on the other hand will continue to state that the response was political and had no bearing in reality. There is no direct or even casual threat from GA pilots to commercial aviation that is addressed by existing third class medical requirements.

[ryoder]

Oh, that is so sad. You are not involved, are clueless what your organization is doing, can only learn what one guy tells you about what is going on, don't have a choice to be a member or not, and its not your fault.

Sounds like what happened in Benghazi...

What difference does it make!?!?!?

[Rhumbline]

They feel having pilots without medicals flying near airlines to be bad. I am not saying this is good or bad logic but their letter is clear on their view.

I am an NRA member and in their mind you should be able to carry a rocket launcher on a 747. I don't necessarily agree with that but it follows the slippery slope principal. Once you start moving the line in the sand it is difficult and expensive to stop further movement, so the logic is fight everything. If this legislation fails it doesn't impact airlines pilots at all but if it passes it is foreseeable this could create an avenue for something negative to occur for them. All about keeping the status quo. Remember this is an exercise in political action both sides, not a reasoned debate per se.

The best course of action is fund the side which supports your position (pro or con) and write/call your representative. Debating what ALPA is doing isn't going to have any impact on the outcome though.

 

Come on!  I don't usually engage in this kind of discussion but that reference to the NRA is absolutely ridiculous!  As long a s the launcher and the rockets are in separate cases and not accessible to the passengers; what difference does it really make?

 

Seriously.  I can't fathom what interest ALPA might have in this issue except cronyism.  I'm sure that point has already been made but that outfit is anything but beneficent.  ALPA has never taken a dollar... right? 

[MyNameIsNobody]

Come on!  I don't usually engage in this kind of discussion but that reference to the NRA is absolutely ridiculous!  As long a s the launcher and the rockets are in separate cases and not accessible to the passengers; what difference does it really make?

 

Seriously.  I can't fathom what interest ALPA might have in this issue except cronyism.  I'm sure that point has already been made but that outfit is anything but beneficent.  ALPA has never taken a dollar... right?

Above is the right way to make a point.