Johnson bar fails and gear collapses in my Mooney 78934 at landing in KLZU

[M20F]

I don't get it. I can get my head around how one might get distracted miss the gear. I don't understand how pilot who is experienced with manual gear Mooneys doesn't seat the the J-bar in the recepticle until it's locked. To me it is all part of the same motion the final click signals that the motion is compleat. It's not like there is no tactile signal that somethings amiss...the thumb lock is very distinguishable. I had it not catch on one occasion when a piece of carpet wedged in front of the J-bar. the bar went into the socket but without the familiar click. Gear came up, my copilot rectified the situation, gear down and the familiar click was heard and felt as always.

As mentioned elsewhere on this thread and in the how many times you check the gear thread, pull it down to verify. While the thumbnail is great, the click sound, etc. the only way to be sure is to try and pull it down. The other tests or sounds can be misinterpreted or missed, but no way a down (not back as many people do) tug is going to fail you.

[N601RX]

I have the two Mooney gear tools, and a calibrated torque wrench, and I've checked preloads a dozen times or more and still I find it a highly subjective test. Your finger must detect "first motion" of the over-center link. I can imagine a non MSC technician puzzling over the procedure.

If the preload values are not in the annual inspection notes I'd be wary.

PS. Replaced the downlock block in the "C" several years ago--4000 hours and it was worn to a grooved, oval mess.

I've found that a dial style torque wrench with peak pointer and slide. .007 feeler gauge between the contact points works well. Pull gently on the feeler gauge while increasing the torque. When the feeler gauge moves stop and read the peak pointer.

[Andy95W]

I've found that a dial style torque wrench with peak pointer and slide. .007 feeler gauge between the contact points works well. Pull gently on the feeler gauge while increasing the torque. When the feeler gauge moves stop and read the peak pointer.

I don't like destroying feeler gauges. An aluminum beer can is .005-.006. Works great, throw away when you're done. One can will last years when it's cut into little strips.

Or plan to drink a fresh beer for every Annual.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Out of likes again. A lot of great stuff....

[ryoder]

I have failed to engage the bar fully twice. Once I noticed on short final when the buzzer sounded and the other time I noticed it downwind while adding flaps. The first time I was on my first solo in the Mooney and the second time I was with a friend explaining things.

In other news. We had a guy land a twin gear up at ZPH and the FAA was not called.

[DaV8or]

Excuse me for the little bit of thread drift- Next year I'm seriously considering doing my own annual. I'm thinking maybe taking it every other year back to LASAR for a "check up".

 

I have an IA on our field that will sign off and encourages many of us here to do it ourselves. He's a great guy, but he's no Mooney expert and neither am I. I feel pretty confident doing all the chores of the annual except the gear rigging. I have no issue with buying the tools, or getting my torque wrench calibrated, but having someone that has done lots of time would be nice.

 

It would be super awesome if some of you guys that have done this lots of times could create a photo how to for some of us next time you do it. I find the service manual to be somewhat lacking.

[Shadrach]

Excuse me for the little bit of thread drift- Next year I'm seriously considering doing my own annual. I'm thinking maybe taking it every other year back to LASAR for a "check up".

 

I have an IA on our field that will sign off and encourages many of us here to do it ourselves. He's a great guy, but he's no Mooney expert and neither am I. I feel pretty confident doing all the chores of the annual except the gear rigging. I have no issue with buying the tools, or getting my torque wrench calibrated, but having someone that has done lots of time would be nice.

 

It would be super awesome if some of you guys that have done this lots of times could create a photo how to for some of us next time you do it. I find the service manual to be somewhat lacking.

PM me your email address.

[RobertGary1]

Once your gear is properly rigged, Dave, adjustments are rarely needed. It sounds like you know how to check the preloads. More than likely that is all that will be necessary. If not, I'm sure that with the help of your IA land this site you can figure it out. I say go for it.

 

Agreed. And if you do need to adjust it its a pain. Once you change one thing something else goes out. But fortunately it rarely needs adjustment.

 

-Robert

[petegaz40]

I am not a lawyer but I would think removed things such as radios is not a good idea.  If you figured that item into the value of the airplane that you had insured could probably get you in hot water..

[RobertGary1]

We're still waiting to hear how he did with his radios with the insurance company. But I've always heard the same. Anything installed in the plane at the moment of the accident belongs to the insurance company and if you took the gamble and didn't call them and increase the hull value before the accident you lost that bet. When I installed my new engine this year I delayed my first flight until I got confirmation back that the insurance company had bound the increased value to the policy. I wired the increase premium funds to ensure it was good.

 

-Robert

[rbridges]

Someone on here lost his plane in a flood. I believe his radios were out when it happened but the insurance company asked for them. I know I'm butchering the details.

[wayneferguson]

I fly out of LZU and saw this Mooney on the ramp after the collapse.  I was sad to see the damage, but am glad that everyone was OK!

[kommers]

Status update: as expected, insurance company declared it a total loss. We exercised a buy-out option...

[carusoam]

What's next...?

Best regards,

-a-

[kommers]

At this point I have a potential buyer (this is why I chose buyout option)  but the sale is not finalized so I may end up having a pile of useless aluminum and steel on my hands.The goal, is to return my bird to the flying condition, never allowing anyone to buy it for parts, but neither my wife nor I will fly it again. Me, I am on the market for 20J with the goal to find something in October or November since I will be out of country for the entire September.

[1964-M20E]

We're still waiting to hear how he did with his radios with the insurance company. But I've always heard the same. Anything installed in the plane at the moment of the accident belongs to the insurance company and if you took the gamble and didn't call them and increase the hull value before the accident you lost that bet. When I installed my new engine this year I delayed my first flight until I got confirmation back that the insurance company had bound the increased value to the policy. I wired the increase premium funds to ensure it was good.

 

-Robert

Yes

 

The insurance company wants the plane complete with all the radios only portable equipment remains with the previous owner.  Essentially you are selling the plane to the insurance company for the agreed upon hull value you insured it at.

[Marauder]

Yes

The insurance company wants the plane complete with all the radios only portable equipment remains with the previous owner. Essentially you are selling the plane to the insurance company for the agreed upon hull value you insured it at.

That is a very important learning for those who don't understand the hull value limits of their insurance. When I installed my new avionics I increase the hull value to make sure that all of the avionics were recovered.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Stay away from the 19J or 21J...

[rbridges]

That is a very important learning for those who don't understand the hull value limits of their insurance. When I installed my new avionics I increase the hull value to make sure that all of the avionics were recovered.

I actually raised my hull value this year for that reason.

[DonMuncy]

You just have to be aware of what you are doing. Everyone (hopefully) knows that putting a $10K box in your panel doesn't increase the value of your plane by $10K. If you total it a year or so later, you understand and accept that. But if you put the box in and total it the next day, you likely just blew $5K.

So yes, if you add equipment, increase the hull value to reflect the increase in value of the plane. But unless you know when you are going to total it, don't increase the hull value by the amount you spent.

[Marauder]

You just have to be aware of what you are doing. Everyone (hopefully) knows that putting a $10K box in your panel doesn't increase the value of your plane by $10K. If you total it a year or so later, you understand and accept that. But if you put the box in and total it the next day, you likely just blew $5K.

So yes, if you add equipment, increase the hull value to reflect the increase in value of the plane. But unless you know when you are going to total it, don't increase the hull value by the amount you spent.

Hey Don, not sure I follow you. When I upgraded my F, I increased the hull value from $50k to $90k to reflect the $40k I put into my panel. If I increased it to $70k and they totaled it, I would be out half of the upgrade. The way I understand it, the insurer will run an appraisal on your plane's value and you can increase the hull value to any point they will agree to. Hull value increase for me was not a lot of money.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Sabremech]

It's been nearly a month since this unfortunate incident. Has a determination been made as to a cause? I as well as any other Johnson bar Mooney owner are interested in learning what process or part failed to cause this.

 Thanks,

 David

[bonal]

I may be wrong here and if so please correct because this applies to everyone that has insurance hull value.  The dollar amount is just a number that you and your carrier agree on they have their measures we have ours and its mutually agreed then they set the premium based on that value and your experience and other criteria if you agree on 50K and you total the airplane they settle and pay you 50K.  They make money by having you pay a higher premium and not crashing the asset.. right?

[1964-M20E]

I may be wrong here and if so please correct because this applies to everyone that has insurance hull value.  The dollar amount is just a number that you and your carrier agree on they have their measures we have ours and its mutually agreed then they set the premium based on that value and your experience and other criteria if you agree on 50K and you total the airplane they settle and pay you 50K.  They make money by having you pay a higher premium and not crashing the asset.. right?

That is about right

 

You are both betting that you don't trash the plane and if you don't the insurance co usually comes out winning.

[ArtVandelay]

I may be wrong here and if so please correct because this applies to everyone that has insurance hull value. The dollar amount is just a number that you and your carrier agree on they have their measures we have ours and its mutually agreed then they set the premium based on that value and your experience and other criteria if you agree on 50K and you total the airplane they settle and pay you 50K. They make money by having you pay a higher premium and not crashing the asset.. right?

I was told by my agent when I put in request that insurance company will do an appraisal and will not insure the plane for more than its worth.