Paint Project - M20J - Questions

[Av8]

Marking 1 year of Mooney ownership with a "owner assisted" annual at local field, and am pleased to be thinking about paint given the outcome (not many squawks).  Thanks DMax for the prebuy/annual a year ago - testament to his work.  Approx 200 hrs, interior & panel upgrades/restorations completed, and the plane dubbed "the ugly duck" may be read to become a swan about a year ahead of schedule.

 

Questions & concerns as I get ready to embark on paint for the '78 J.  I'm confident the answer to all of these are "it's your toy and your money - do what you want" - looking for insight/ideas from the experience of the group - thanks in advance.

 

1 - color/scheme - I loved the engine & straight airframe, hated the "beige & baby sh!t brown" paint scheme that is original '78 - I ditched the avocado refrigerator and shag carpet years ago - want to go more standard/current - any reason not to? 

 

2 - 1-piece belly - it's worth something having just gone through annual, but how much if anything really?  Are there good sources of salvage that are of value?  If ever to do it, now is it.

 

3 - wing tips - I think they look cool, and would "upgrade" to LED lights & strobes as well.  Doesn't look like a performance reason just aesthetics?  

 

4 - "glass" - need new windscreen, meaningful crazing.  side windows are in good shape.  Thicker plastic worth it?  The cost for material isn't that great - worth it to just to all windows "while she is stripped down?"  I've seen some "repair" methods but in many ways feel like 37 years is good service?

 

5 - Types of paint, color schemes etc - I really know nothing about this.

 

6 - The big question - WHERE?  Does Mooney experience/expertise matter?  How far to travel before it just doesn't make sense, how to "vet" a shop etc.?? Recommendations?

 

7 - Change N number?  Not that I have a problem I think the ..201.. is pretty classic/iconic.  Why would/woldn't?  Also - going bigger numbers makes sense or no?

8 - What are the things you did, heard others did, or wish you did when doing similar project?  This really is a big opportunity to take the plane offline for 2-3 months and get it right, trying to minimize "wish I woulda..." lack of experience and penny wise pound foolish decisions.

 

 

 

 

Thanks in advance for your feedback

[N33GG]

Wait on the 1 piece belly until you forget to put the gear down.  Just kidding... 

[DonMuncy]

I'll just address a couple.

One piece belly. Your A&P/IA will love it. But the guy doing the annual probably won't give you a discount for the time it saves him.

It is my understanding that if you paint it, you are required to go with the larger numbers.

I think it is neat to have the 201 in the number. (Mine is 231AT).

You might consider going to Mena AR for paint. They have several paint shops on the field, so you can visit several on one trip. I had mine done there 10 years ago and got a good job at a good price.

[KSMooniac]

I went through much of the same debate before painting mine.  I went for a custom modern paint scheme and colors vs. similarly awful factory '77 colors that were on mine.  Many of us used a great freelance scheme design guy with a great eye for Mooneys, but unfortunately he passed away last fall.  I'm not a huge fan of the Scheme Designers outfit you might have seen in AOPA, but some of their work on Mooneys is nice. 

 

You'll want to find a shop relatively close to you for potential warranty work.  Ask for customer references from many years ago, and see if you can put your own eyes on their work.  I emphasize looking at 3+ year old paint jobs because you'll really see how they're holding up.  I get more disappointed with my paint job quality every time I clean the plane and find more flaws.  A few folks here have used Hawk in FL with much success.  Otherwise I don't know much about what is available on the east coast.  You'll likely use Jet Glo and Acry Glo paint products.  You'll of course want a full chemical strip, alodine, etc. and not just a scuff 'n paint.  Any corrosion should be found and mitigated during this process.

 

The 1-pc belly is an expensive conversion and adds some measurable weight unless you go with the carbon fiber version developed by Bill Wheat and Dugosh in Kerrville.  I'm not sure if it is still available, though.  I opted to skip it and put money towards more important upgrades.  You won't find a salvage 1 pc belly in usable condition.  You might find someone selling one second-hand/never installed, but they're rare.  You can always add it later if you wish and just get a local painter to spray the belly...it will likely be a solid color anyway and easy to do off the plane.

 

Factory wingtips will require new ailerons and counterweights and that is really, really expensive.  Even used ailerons will be expensive.  I'd save the money again for something more meaningful unless your ailerons are already hail damaged or twisted or otherwise not tip-top.

 

Definitely change your windscreen, and carefully decide if that new windscreen will make the side windows suddenly look old.  The windows are relatively cheap and you might just do all of them if they've never been changed.  You'll be happy with new ones and a modern grey tint if you choose vs. older green shades.  Thicker means more weight and less useful load.  Modern ANR headsets do far better than thicker windows in protecting your hearing.  Thicker windscreen is marginally more resistant to a bird strike, but also harder to install and get the front fairing to accommodate.  You might want to get a local mechanic to change all of the glass before delivery to a paint shop.  Not all shops are good with mechanical work.

 

If your tanks are leaky, or have never been re-sealed, you might STRONGLY consider getting them stripped and sealed prior to paint since that operation can locally damage paint when the panels are removed.

 

Changing an N-number is personal and requires some FAA hoop-jumping.  Personally I think it is bad juju to change her name after so long.    

 

You might consider swapping the lower gear doors to the newer composite & lower profile doors prior to paint.  The brake calipers get moved to the front of the wheel, and the blister/bump fairing gets removed in the process.  The composite doors sit much closer to the wing and are much more durable than the OEM metal assemblies.

 

Check your nose gear doors for wear/erosion as well and consider changing to the newer overlapping style if they're worn.

 

I kinda wish I would have removed the gear and really done a nice clean/strip/paint operation on separate components vs. just spraying EVERYTHING while it was installed.  This would be a LOT more work and require a shop with some Mooney familiarity to get it done right, but it is rare to find anyone that removes gear for painting.  I would inspect the shop for cleanliness and talk to as many customers as I could find.  I would also recommend getting the shop to put fuel sealant or similar in a skinny bead around the windscreen and perhaps all windows to prevent paint edge erosion.  It is a nice detail that looks fine and will help the paint last a long time.  If the shop isn't familiar with Mooneys, have them trim the tail to the takeoff position before masking the stripes so everything will line up nicely on the ground.  (and then you must remember to re-trim to takeoff after landing, before parking.   )

[KSMooniac]

Be careful if you go to Mena for any work... it is hit-or-miss and I've missed twice.

[DonMuncy]

Scott,

Who did you use in Mena. Mena Aircraft Painting did mine, and have been very pleased.

[ArtVandelay]

If I'm not mistaken, ailerons and elevators need to be removed and balanced if painting.

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[ALP]

I also had the beige/brown/blue scheme.

I used Scheme Designers with great results. I looked at a lot of planes to get the basic look I liked and then sent pictures to design around, They sent drawings until we agreed it was perfect. Probably received 20-25 drawings tweaking it all included in original price quote. A design you don't like costs the same to apply as one you love.

Pick a reputable shop close enough that you can visit and see the progress. Don"t think you will get your plane done sooner by dropping it off early, it will just sit until they are ready to start. Agree on procedures and paint brands prior to start (my wheel wells look as good as the rest of the plane). I wouldn't pay more than 50% prior to picking up plane and receiving log book entries.

I went with a 4 color metallic scheme that I still love 1 1/2 years later.

 

Al

[ALP]

I will add that each color and detail add to the cost. You are not going to get anything more than you pay for.

 

Al

[jetdriven]

Scott,Who did you use in Mena. Mena Aircraft Painting did mine, and have been very pleased.

He sands the airplanes now with 320 grit and a DA I am not kidding. It is cheaper than hand stripping with scotch brite and a second coat of stripper. The rest of the job is superb. But not the cost of all the alclad and rivets. It ruins the airplane

The strange thing is he even sands the new skins they put on a 175 they had there. He claims it's the only way paint will stick.

[DonMuncy]

Byron,

Are you talking about Mena Aircraft Painting? They stripped mine completely. No sanding at all.

[KSMooniac]

He sands the airplanes now with 320 grit and a DA I am not kidding. It is cheaper than hand stripping with scotch brite and a second coat of stripper. The rest of the job is superb. But not the cost of all the alclad and rivets. It ruins the airplane

The strange thing is he even sands the new skins they put on a 175 they had there. He claims it's the only way paint will stick.

image.jpg

 

This kind of thing doesn't surprise at all for any shop in Mena.  There seems to be a culture there to just do things however they want, with no regard to written manuals or specs.  (I know I'm painting with a very broad brush here, but one should do their homework!)

[Parker_Woodruff]

I would fly down to VDF and have Joe at Hawk Aircraft Painting do your paint job.  You can see my photo gallery.

 

Ask him to use the "mask" that he can order from a guy he knows.  Makes the paint job super precise

 

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/album/13633-n252bh-paint/

[jetdriven]

Byron,

Are you talking about Mena Aircraft Painting? They stripped mine completely. No sanding at all.

Linda and Dennis, Mena aircraft painting

[jetdriven]

This kind of thing doesn't surprise at all for any shop in Mena.  There seems to be a culture there to just do things however they want, with no regard to written manuals or specs.  (I know I'm painting with a very broad brush here, but one should do their homework!)

The other place, Cri**r was worse, but in different categories. The paint, for one thing, looked horrible. Touvh ups all over and fuzzy stripes, overspray around rivets. Controls not taken off.   They dont have a paint booth, they hang plastic and paint in thr corner. Overspray. Dry spray, runs, solvent pop, buffed wings with little white specs of  touch up paint that dont match where the rivets were buffed to metal. paint on everything, hinges, rod ends, tires, door jambs, props, baffles, alternator belts.

 

If it were free I would be pissed.

 

Then there are the 17K paint shops.  They look good. Then there are the 17K paint shops that rent as good. Then theres the 9K paint shops that look like crap.   Then theres Hawk, which is  ~9k priced and looks really good, perhaps 90% as good as the Tejas or Murmer which are the highest priced out there.

[DonMuncy]

What year was this, Byron. Mine was done in about 2005. The owners then were Doug and Rhonda.

Perhaps they sold.

[jetdriven]

What year was this, Byron. Mine was done in about 2005. The owners then were Doug and Rhonda.Perhaps they sold.

Got it wrong. It's actually Doug and Rhonda I was up there oct 2013.

[Hank]

I thought if the airplane was 30 years old or more, the small registration number's were legal (in the U.S.--use duct or electrical tape to make large temporary numbers if you visit Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, etc.). Has this changed (again)?

[DonMuncy]

You may well be right, Hank. Maybe somebody who knows the rules can tell us.

[preinke]

My inner gear doors have seen better times and we removed them a couple of years ago. Are there any non metal alternatives that would be "log book" acceptable?

 

Paul '77J KIKV

[KSMooniac]

My inner gear doors have seen better times and we removed them a couple of years ago. Are there any non metal alternatives that would be "log book" acceptable?

 

Paul '77J KIKV

You might try the Mooney Mod Squad in FL.  Their website appears down at the moment so I don't know if they're still around or not.  They've posted on here before, so you might be able to search them up and send a PM.

[preinke]

Scott,

 

What did you use for parts and paper work solution ?

 

Thanks,

Paul

[KSMooniac]

The doors came with an STC.

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[Hank]

My inner gear doors have seen better times and we removed them a couple of years ago. Are there any non metal alternatives that would be "log book" acceptable?

 

Paul '77J KIKV

I thought that "inner gear doors" began with either K or Rockets, and open on the fuselage to let the gear move, then close again, just like a little airliner. Js came with "lower gear doors," a third outer door that covers lower on the wheel than the two pieces on my C.

[Two Oh One]

4 - "glass" - need new windscreen, meaningful crazing.  side windows are in good shape.  Thicker plastic worth it?  The cost for material isn't that great - worth it to just to all windows "while she is stripped down?"  I've seen some "repair" methods but in many ways feel like 37 years is good service?

 

I just did the side glass in my '77 with .250" solar gray from Great Lakes Aero Products. It was at least 30 hours of sweat and frustration, but it looks so much better on the plane and is so clear to look through in flight that I can't believe it. My A&P/IA gets it for the .250" windscreen ASAP. The old mint green plexi was so flimsy coming out that I can't imagine it won't cut down on noise levels for you. I have my whole interior out right now, so I can't really say yet how much it helped me with noise.