LoPresti Cowl Kit...do you want one?

[KSMooniac]

Alright fellow Mooniacs...I've mentioned in a thread or two that I'm seriously contemplating going for a LoPresti cowl kit for my 201 before I head to the paint shop later this year.  Reasons for my interest are (a) primarily the fact that my existing cowl, cowl flaps, and gear doors are worn and will require some attention to make them perfect, so I need to put some time and money into the front end of the plane no matter what, and ( increased efficiency so I can gain speed without additional fuel burn.

Another member here (fantom) and I have been scheming about a group purchase scenario for the kits, and I would like to round up as many as possible to make it tempting for them to make a batch for us at reduced cost.  They've had supplier issues over the years, and that is unfortunately why the price has been high.  I believe they're still hoping to find a new vendor, and if we can present them with an order for 5 or 6 kits at once, it might make it easier for them to find a new vendor since there would be immediate demand for a run of orders.  The current advertised price is ~$13k, and we would like to get it down to $10k or lower. 

In case you haven't seen the kit, the details are here:  http://www.speedmods.com/M20cowl.htm

It is the real deal and does what it claims according to owners and an article in Aviation Consumer from a few years ago.  Note that the labor estimate for 201s is 40 hours, and for the E-F models it is 50-70 hours, so unfortunately it is not a trivial installation!  The group purchase deal would be for the kits only, so you would be responsible for working with your shop to get it installed.  Fair warning...the few shops I've spoken with have not enjoyed the installation process.  It is time consuming and tedious to make it perfect, so I would encourage any owner to make sure they either have the perserverance to either do it themselves with appropriate supervision, or baby sit their favorite shop.

Please send me a PM if you are seriously interested about getting into this deal.  We would like to make it happen in the near future.  At this point it would be nice to deliver a group of customers ready to purchase, and negotiate the price at that point.  We will not collect money so everyone will deal with LoPresti directly once a deal is struck.

[TurboExec]

I'd be all over this if it could work with my existing turbo setup...

[KSMooniac]

Adam, do you know if it will or won't work with the Rayjay setup?  I have no idea. 

[Seth]

I would be interested.  On January 21, 2009 (just about 8 days ago) I received an email from Gary Kay at LoPresti letting me know that the price for the Mooney Cowl is now $12,500 (originally $16,000.).  Obviously the economy is affecting them, and they may just lower the cost for the group discount.  Does anyone know the price for a 201 style cowl?  I haven't really done a ton of research yet, but if someone already has, that would be great.  I have an F Model, so I would need the extra work, but if we can get him to dramatically reduce that price, I would be very interested. 

[TurboExec]

Scott, I do not believe my turbo normalized setup willl work with the lopresti cowl without some major mods.  The airbox on the F model cowl is an important part to the turbo ducting.  I'm sure it could be made to work but it would require a lot of time and money.

[KSMooniac]

Seth, nailing down the price for a 201 cowl conversion on an E or F is a bit difficult.  There are several options from simple bolt-on mods to the nose to the full-blown conversion with a takeoff 201 cowl.  To use the true 201 cowl, there are many mods to the baffling, engine mount (I think), cowl flap controls, oil cooler relocation, etc. and I believe there are some skin mods to the fuselage.  201 cowls appear now and then on ebay and Barnstormers.com and vary in price...perhaps in the $1000-$2000 range, but that of course is just the beginning of the costs.  It also would make a lot of sense to do the 201 windscreen mod at the same time, which isn't very expensive but requires some labor.

[N207LS]

Seth,

I have the 201 style ARI complete cowl closure mod on my M20G.  It is a very affordable way to get most of the 201 look and performance at a fraction of the cost.  Mine is 6 years old and only has a couple of small cracks (that we be fixed before the paint job).  The installation is much cheaper than going for the whole 201 cowl (nothing to move underneath the cowl)...  I would consider the Lo Presti cowl, but for me it is simply cost prohibitive (it does look cool though and does add significant speed).  I don't know what other mods you have, but another thought is that the same $14k+ would buy you about 11 mph in other mods.  My experience with my mods (flap gap, aerleron, 201 windshield, ARI cowl,  fairings, etc...) is that they cost me about $1250 per mph installed on my plane...  I have not added the single piece belly or the innder gear doors and don't plan to right now.  I fly into several grass fields and have some concerns with the inner gear doors.  With that said, the cowl mod is in line with other mod pricing.  Personally I would just rather invest the $14k+ in either avoinics, paint, or interior.  Best of luck!

Aaron

[Lood]

Aaron, do you maybe know where I would be able to view pictures of ARI's mods?

[N207LS]

www.aeroresourcesinc.com is their website...  Lots if mod information on it.

[Chris White ex-N205KD]

I just received a call from Liz at Lopresti, wanting to know if I was still interested in the cowl.  She said the price was still $12.5k, but would be going back up "in the near future" to $16k. Business must be brisk!

Thought I'd pass this on if anyone's on the fence.  Any word on the group purchase?

[KSMooniac]

Last word I had was they were preoccupied with a facility relocation, and had no Mooney cowls in stock.  I doubt it is becuse they've been selling like hotcakes either!  They don't really seem interested in selling a bunch.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Not interested here, but I am convinced Scott will have the nicest 1977 201 in existence here in a short while.  If Weeping Wings would only get it certified for FIKI (currently only accidental) you could do anything you wanted with a TN Mooney 201.

[KSMooniac]

  We'll see.  I don't think I would ever add TKS to my 201, even with a TN kit.  Mine is great right now as an economical XC ship that can carry 2 guys and 2 girls (of reasonable size) and some light baggage on a 400-500 mile trip.  I don't want to eat into my useful load so much that it turns into a 2-person traveler...not to mention the 40 AMU+ cost of TKS makes even less sense on a 100 AMU J than any of my other pipe dream mods. 

I have been stranded due to ice and had a few other drips delayed or canceled, but not enough that would convince me to add TKS to my plane.  If I lived further north I might sing a different tune...

[Chris White ex-N205KD]

Quote: KSMooniac

  We'll see.  I don't think I would ever add TKS to my 201, even with a TN kit.  Mine is great right now as an economical XC ship that can carry 2 guys and 2 girls (of reasonable size) and some light baggage on a 400-500 mile trip.  I don't want to eat into my useful load so much that it turns into a 2-person traveler...not to mention the 40 AMU+ cost of TKS makes even less sense on a 100 AMU J than any of my other pipe dream mods. 

I have been stranded due to ice and had a few other drips delayed or canceled, but not enough that would convince me to add TKS to my plane.  If I lived further north I might sing a different tune...

[KSMooniac]

The most important question is.... at what price is it BOGO 1/2 off?  If it is the $17k+ price that is one thing...if it is the only only-slighty-outrageous price of $12k then we might be on to something...  do you know the details, Chris?

[Chris White ex-N205KD]

Good point, Scott. 

I guess I was assuming it was BOGO half off the last price they listed, $12.5k, which would make them $9.375k each. I could see them pricing it back up to $18k then doing this, making the price more than before.

I'll ask on Thursday at OSH.  If anyone else at Airventure can ask before then, be sure to post the answer.

[KSMooniac]

I have a buddy looking for the LoPresti display now, so I'll report back when he checks in.

 

Jim, the reviews on the LoP cowl are mixed, to say the least.  I think it will offer some measurable improvement in cruise speed and cooling ability over my existing (worn) cowl.  My CHTs vary up to 40-50 degrees from hottest to coolest and I'd love to equalize them with a better cowl system, and I think this will help.  As I mentioned in my first post, I need to repair/replace my nose gear doors and cowl flaps as well as repair the camloc holes on my current cowl, so that is part of my motivation to go with new and improved.  I certainly would not spend the money on a cosmetic upgrade only.

[fantom]

I have discussed the LoPresti Cowl extensively with two owners. Both were J's and both bought it after damage to their original cowling. Bottom line, better access to their engines, looks cool, difficult installation and poor initial fit, with no (zero) performance improvement. Neither owner would recommend them.We didn't talk specifically about cooling, however. After these discussions, talking to a MSC that has installed several, and looking at them VERY carefully, I'm no longer considering one...even at $9K, and I would be amazed if LoPresti honored that price.

Scott....a 40 to 50 degree spread isn't bad. Mine has been higher than that, but after swapping injectors around, it's now around 20 to 30 degrees. Any further thoughts about paint shops?

[KSMooniac]

Gary, I'm still scheduled with Crider for mid-August.  I just returned from my 20+ hour Mooney trip and haven't touched base with him to nail down a firm date or price yet.  I'm chatting with Paul at LASAR about some overlapping nose gear doors and other easy exterior mods and hopefully can get those done soon before paint time.  I've decided to defer the smooth belly til later and just get some extra paint.  I had also planned to repair my existing cowl, but the latest LoPresti offer piqued my interest again...and like you I'm not that tempted to pursue it seriously.

[fantom]

I'm scheduled in about the same time. I didn't get the sense that Crider follows a hard, fixed schedule. With a wedding in Detroit, Labor Day, MAPA and Boxstoberfest in Fredricksburg coming up, I may try and slip it to mid September. I also want to visit the guy in Ormond Beach one more time. Do you want to continue pressing Crider for a twofer? The one aspect that concerns me is how Rodger can turn a Mooney around in 12 business days and still do a good job. 

Did I just read correctly that you were the first flight test engineer on the Columbia/Cessna 300/350/400 program? Do tell.....

 

[KSMooniac]

From my observation, Crider's shop has a lot of capacity to work jobs in parallel, and thus they can probably get it done quickly.  I'll probably call them next week when I have a better handle on what mods I'll do vs. repairs to firm up a date and price with him.  I get the impression one vs. two-fer probably won't matter as he seemed pretty casual in my brief conversation about it.  There is an Angel Flight I might pick up for the 18th (Tuesday) that hands-off in Mena, and it might be a perfect time for me to leave the plane with them. 

And yes, you read correctly that my first post-graduation job as a flight test engineer (and airworthiness engineer) up there.  The summer before that I was an intern and the 3rd engineer on the program...we got to do all of the preliminary design, lofting, performance estimates, etc. that summer ('95) and it was great.  Before the plane got fat, we had a 1300+ lb useful load and could do 194 KTAS at 8,000 ft.  Ovation speeds and 182 payload with the gear hanging out...it is quite a plane.  Too bad the empty weight grew so much, though.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: KSMooniac

 

And yes, you read correctly that my first post-graduation job as a flight test engineer (and airworthiness engineer) up there.  The summer before that I was an intern and the 3rd engineer on the program...we got to do all of the preliminary design, lofting, performance estimates, etc. that summer ('95) and it was great.  Before the plane got fat, we had a 1300+ lb useful load and could do 194 KTAS at 8,000 ft.  Ovation speeds and 182 payload with the gear hanging out...it is quite a plane.  Too bad the empty weight grew so much, though.

[KSMooniac]

Lots of reasons that add up, but highest on the list IMO are the fancy interior (all manufacturers are guilty of that now) and big tolerances on composite parts that led to excessive amounts of bonding adhesive.  The adhesive issue also led to a repetitive AD that I warned about back in '96 and was blown-off.  That is one of the reasons I didn't stick around.

[KSMooniac]

My buddy at OSH just called me back, and apparently the cowl kit price is indeed $12.5k, so the BOGO deal would make them ~$9.4k each.  It they would have done this 3 months ago I probably would buy it, but not any longer. 

[fantom]

Anyone considering ordering one, please be careful. Little if anything down, and have a lawyer review the contract.

Three months ago LoPresti had neither any stock, nor a manufacturer!