Ovation 2 GX vs DX

[VinoMooney]

Hey all,

 I am new to the site and already finding it helpful. I was heading after the first of the year to look at a nice Gx. I have decided against the cirrus but still wanted the glass. I read a thread on here that the G1000 was not WAAS compatible and might even require a new Garmin autopilot. Has there been any resolution to this issue that you know.

[LANCECASPER]

Here's I think the latest of many posts on the subject:

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/13624-waas-update-for-2005-6-7-mooneys/?hl=g1000#entry176562

[carusoam]

There are some recent long Body Mooneys with completely reworked and personalized instrument panels that you way want to consider. As in do one for yourself. These ones are not for sale...

The G1000 itself is already 5 years old.

So many choices coming down the pipe.

Welcome aboard!

Best regards,

-a-

[Deb]

The earlier GXs were equipped with non-WAAS GPSs and the STEC 55X autopilot; some were subsequently upgraded at the Mooney factory. The later ones (mid 2007 or so and later) are WAAS equipped with the Garmin GFC 700 autopilot.

[Jeff_S]

Having recently gone through this decision process I'll tell you how I analyzed it. Then you have to do the research and decide for yourself.

 

For me, one thing most people don't talk about is the actual height of the panel. If you get into a DX or pre-G1000 Ovation, you'll notice that the panel physically takes up about 2" more in height. Compared to the J I used to fly, I found this to cause a significant degradation in visibility especially on the ground. Sure, it's not a total deal-breaker and something I could have gotten used to, but my wife felt even more strongly about it.  The adjustable seats can help somewhat but then your head starts getting pretty close to the ceiling and your legs start butting up against the yoke, at least they did for me. I have a short torso but longer legs, so that may have contributed. I really like the visibility of the lower G1000 panels.

 

As to the path to WAAS and ADS-B, I'm sure you've read through the other linked thread shown earlier here so you've seen my analysis there. I'm confident enough that Mooney will have a solution next year, and even with the current set-up (non-WAAS and S-TEC 55x) I love the integration of the G1000.

 

So good luck...there are some nice models out there just waiting for a happy new owner.

[Txbyker]

I too, like Jeff, had the same decisions a couple of years ago about the GX.  There are a lot of planes, not just Mooney, with G-1000 and an autopilot other than the Garmin GFC so there are a couple of others like Cessna and Diamond in the same ADSB boat.  Garmin released the G-1000 in 2004 and did not have the WAAS autopilot until 2007. True the newer GXs can have WAAS but no one has ADSB IN/OUT from the factory.  That solution reportedly is due out early 2015. 

 

GX? - most have air-conditioning, a G-1000, synthetic vision, 102 gallons tanks.  I venture to guess most GX with STEC should go for $30-40K less than the Garmin GFC, at least from my observation.  Oh the synthetic is very nice and points to the runway in a WAAS-less fashion.

 

Russ

[LANCECASPER]

In 2004 I believe the instrument panel was also lowered for the DX model. However if you decide on any DX be cautious of ones that still have Moritz engine/fuel/vac, etc, gauges. Moritz is no longer in business and there is no support. The instruments start to go one at at time. There's a company in FL that was working on them but the cost was prohibitive.

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/13382-moritz-gauges/?hl=moritz

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/11475-moritz-cht-gauge-inop/?hl=moritz

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/1751-moritz-panel-weirdness/?hl=moritz

 

What some have done is take out the Moritz gauges and install a JPI EDM 900 or 930 or an equivalent instrument certified as primary. Figure on a minimum of $10,000 to do this, plus recutting a new panel. So if this hasn't been done it may be something that will need to be done. If you find one with a new primary engine monitor then they have probably re-worked the panel and have upgraded other things as well. I fly a 2000 Ovation 2 and the panel had been done by the previous owner.

 

[Danb]

Russ,Jeff and myself and hopefully a host of others keep the pressure on Mooney for an acceptable solution. A few yrs ago I had a date setup to send my plane in for the WAAS and Garmin. For $60g+... I was scared away by the chance they would go into bankruptcy with my plane on site therefore decided against it and am glad. Paul at Mooney also has told me they will be working on a solution in early 2015...syn vis is so good I'm more interested in making sure we can make the 2020 Adsb mandate....most of us with the G1000 would not want to part with for other types of nav aids that's not taking a hit on other types but once your used to all the benefits of the 1000 it would be difficult to accept less. That's merely personal, I've practiced with cfi's and at the Mooney PPP landing zero zero (fogles on) and the syn vis put me on the runway each time ...I'm not suggesting to do this but Iv practiced this in an avent of engine failure in low conditions I would have some inner thought I could land safely this is vs. not having syn vis...

[VinoMooney]

I really feel like I'm in over my head here. Do any of you know a good mooney buyers agent? I don't want to make a huge mistake.

[GeorgePerry]

Talk with Richard Simile of Premier Aircraft Sales.  He's probably the most knowledgeable Mooney sales guy on the east coast.  He represented the seller when I purchased my plane.  He didn't work "for" me and I'm still recommending him  .  Tell him George Perry sent you.  His contact info is enclosed.

[VinoMooney]

Thanks for the information.

[carusoam]

For balance...

Check in with AAA...

http://allamericanaircraft.com/Default.htm

To avoid getting in over your head...

Consider using...

A PPI from an MSC.

Write a Purchasing agreement.

Expect to use a few days for transition training with a Mooney specific CFII.

It is a big expense, treat it as if your wallet depends on it...

Best regards,

-a-

[VinoMooney]

Funny you should mention AAA. They are the first people I talked to and I believe it was Jimmy. I was inquiring about a 2005 O2 GX. I didn't know about the G1000/WAAS problems till I found this site. I will be based out of Lubbock Tx and my mission is back and forth to Fredericksburg Tx, about 250 nm. Fredericksburg is only 30 min drive from Kerrville. I believe AAA is in San Antonio. Any other recommendations about them would be appreciated. I believe he told me they had sold over 800 moneys in the last 20 years. Also there is a MSC at Lubbock Aero. Many reasons the mooney makes sense for me.

[FlyDave]

+1 for AAA!

I traded my J for a Bravo in December of 2013 - Excellent experience with Jimmy. No BS..Here is the airplane, ask questions, peruse the logs, have prebuy done...I purchased the airplane before I even heard the engine run. I couldn't be happier with my airplane!

[DonMuncy]

+1 for AAA. Jimmy and David are top notch and straight shooters. I bought my plane thru them 14 years ago, and now consider them to be my friends.

[carusoam]

They (AAA) have recently relocated their home drome. Just make sure you know where they are before visiting...

Full disclosure...

I bought my O there about five years ago.

If you go O, know what the 310HP upgrade is...then decide.

Best regards,

-a-

[VinoMooney]

I am familiar with the stc for the 310 upgrade. I guess you would recommend it?

[carusoam]

It works for me!

Roughly 10% more hp, 30% less T/O distance. 800' vs 1200'

I don't have WAAS or GPSS yet...

Best regards,

-a-

[fantom]

One more vote for Jimmy at AAA

[kmyfm20s]

+1 for AAA and 310 hp!

[VinoMooney]

Does the 310 hp stc increase the useful load any?

[kmyfm20s]

Does the 310 hp stc increase the useful load any?

For M20S it does but not for the M20R.

[donkaye]

Notwithstanding some of the comments of those who made a thoughtful decision for them to buy a non WAAS G1000 Mooney, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake to buy such a Mooney.  At the very least wait until next year and see if Mooney comes up with an upgrade solution, then discount the price of the airplane by the amount of the upgrade cost.  The difference between WAAS and non WAAS is usually nearly 400' for the difference between an LPV and LNAV approach.  This is significant.   Here in California, often in the winter time in the Valley you would be able to get in with an LPV approach and not with an LNAV approach.  Also, ADS-B traffic, especially with Garmin Target Trend, is unbelievably beneficial right now.  I just wouldn't want to buy an airplane whose ability to be converted is not completely clear and with the ability to do so resting outside of your control.  

[kmyfm20s]

I agree with Don and the Non WAAS G1000/Stec was a non starter for me when I was shopping for a newer plane. I ended up buying an older plane that someone put the initial investment into the panel/engine and then topped it off with everything else I wanted. A few of the DX on the market fit that criteria. I ended up going with a Screaming Eagle because it had the highest useful load on top of everything else.

[Jeff_S]

Notwithstanding some of the comments of those who made a thoughtful decision for them to buy a non WAAS G1000 Mooney, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake to buy such a Mooney.  At the very least wait until next year and see if Mooney comes up with an upgrade solution, then discount the price of the airplane by the amount of the upgrade cost.  The difference between WAAS and non WAAS is usually nearly 400' for the difference between an LPV and LNAV approach.  This is significant.   Here in California, often in the winter time in the Valley you would be able to get in with an LPV approach and not with an LNAV approach.  Also, ADS-B traffic, especially with Garmin Target Trend, is unbelievably beneficial right now.  I just wouldn't want to buy an airplane whose ability to be converted is not completely clear and with the ability to do so resting outside of your control.  

 

Any purchase decision is about the cost-benefit. I respect Don's opinion as to what works for him, but we don't all have the same requirements. First, none of the Mooney G1000 planes are ADS-B capable yet, as Mooney has not done the work to make them so. I don't even think the 2015 models are set up for this, at least according to their listings (see the post on the 2015 ad from Premier.)  So no matter what you're buying, if you want a G1000 Mooney you're taking a bit of a gamble in that regard. You just have to decide what that risk means to you financially.

 

As to the capabilities of the non-WAAS systems, no doubt if you need to shoot a lot of approaches to 200' AGL then you better stick with WAAS. But if that's not your mission profile, then I will re-assert that even the non-WAAS systems coupled with the SVT are a kick-ass way to get down out of the clouds. And even right now, you can get them at a much lower price than those WAAS equipped birds.

 

I'm not saying DO or DON'T to either option...but there are valid reasons to go either direction depending on your needs and desires.  The buyer has to weigh all this together.