VA Beach area

[par]

Gentlemen,

 

I am in the market for a 20C and I'm trying to figure out where I can house it without busting my budget. This will be my first personal aircraft and I'm still trying to learn all the in and outs of ownership. So with that in mind, I have a couple of question.

 

I am looking for some hangar space at either Hampton Road Exec(PVG), Norfolk (ORF) or Chesapeake Regional. I have already check with Chesapeake Regional and they are asking $350/month for a twin hangar and I can't afford that, nor do I need that much space. I would be willing to share hangar space with someone but I really don't know where to start looking. If anyone has some connections, please let me know. I would like to keep the cost around $200/mo if possible and I do not need anything fancy, just something to keep the plane out of the elements. 

 

Additionally, I am not against renting it out to a local club to support some of the maintenance costs but once again, I know nothing about this. Can I get some opinions on the topic from those who may know more? I plan on using the aircraft about once, maybe twice a month for a total of about 5-10 hours. Does it make sense to keep it flying rather than just collect dust?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[carusoam]

My C stayed out doors for the decade I owned her...(and a few decades before that)

There are nice covers available.

Tie-down is $100/mo, hangars in NJ are more than a factor of five...

You can afford many new paint jobs after storing outdoors for a decade.

Storing outdoors has ill effects on the plane. But you gotta do what you...

Insurance costs for renting it out...(somewhat unlikely).

Finding a partner works for many here...

That's my experience,

-a-

[M016576]

Corrosion is a factor out there- if you do go the tie-down route, you should also plan for a anti-corrosion treatment every 2 years.

A nice cover will help keep the water out!

the problem with hangars is that when you're in a place where you *need* one, they are either all full or too expensive! Actually, 350 a month seems somewhat reasonable for that area, for a twin...

[DS1980]

Have you considered you don't have the income yet to afford an airplane?

[neilpilot]

I based my M20E in a hangar at KCPK for about 3 years starting in 1989, and then moved into Aerodyne's maintenance hangar at KPVG until I relocated in 1994.  You might check to see if Aerodyne @ PVG will rent space in their hangar.  Not an ideal situation.  How far are you from KPHF or KJGG?

[Marauder]

I respectfully disagree. He's doing due diligence to be able to afford an aircraft.

I think he is saying he doesn't' want to drop $350 a month on a big hanger for a C, nor does it make sense. He is looking for a smaller hanger in his area in the $200 a month range.

I think DS asked probably for the same reason I was thinking it. In his last paragraph he asked about leasing the plane out to help with some of the cost while it sits for most of the month.

If his budget is that tight that he is looking to offset cost by leasing it out, what is he going to do when he is faced with a mechanical problem that will run him so serious AMUs?

To the OP: The friends I know who have leased, weren't very happy with their situations. Most leases require the owner to pay for the full maintenance cost. If the plane is flown regularly and doesn't break down, it might help. But if needs work, it actually won't.

I can still remember a friend with a 172 out on lease. We went out to the plane to do some instrument work and found someone had marked the faces of the DG and ADF indicator with grease pencils. He was livid. It would be best to really understand the lease structure.

Another suggestion is to look for an instructor to fly it the weeks you are not around. Many of these guys are looking to build time. Let him or her use it for fuel cost.

[bonal]

Perhaps he does have enough income but it's tight and he wants to fly. The general public thinks us pilot types are a bunch of rich snobs that hang out at Bushwood. Some of us can afford 200k dollar and up aircraft and that's great but some can't. My 20c is as much as I can and I'm damn thankful I'm in a position to be able to fly. There are worse things in life than having to keep your airplane outside. The more people that fly and own the better it is for all of us. Even if a Cessna 150 was all I could afford it would still kick the crap out of being stuck on the ground.

[Hank]

I would definitely check KJGG Williamsburg. It's a nice field with lots of hangars, but I don't know about availability, I just visit from time to time. Get on the hangar list at all area airports.

5-10 hours per month is probably average for the single-owner GA fleet. If you want her to fly more, either get a partner you know and trust or find someone who meets the Open Pilot clause in your insurance and make them a deal like fly for fuel if you don't want it yourself at the same time. Talk to AOPA or a lawyer and see what options you have for a monthly non-equity fee without having to form an LLC or do tax returns on the airplane, etc.

My long-term average is about 8 hours per month since purchase in summer '07.

[gsxrpilot]

Every time the big fronts roll through Texas with the associated cumulonimbus, I'm thankful for my hanger.  I pay $225/month and it's 45 minutes away from the house.  I even drive past two airports to get there, but neither one have hangers available at any price.  I actually signed the lease on my hanger about 3 weeks before locating a plane to buy and paid rent for almost 2 months before moving an airplane into it.  Work towards getting a hanger now.  Don't wait for the airplane.

 

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/35687-/

[Steve65E-NC]

If you do not have a personal contact at Hampton Roads, I suggest that you visit Jim Miller at Bay Avionics  757-488-7700 .  He probably can not help you with your hanger problem, but you will most likely be using his shop for your BiAnnual Transponder / Pitot Static check.  It is a good radio shop and they have the bench capability to fix many problems that other shops just pull and ship.  And, he just might have an idea of the hanger or at least be able to give you the lay  of the land.  I like landing at Hampton Roads but you have to keep the antenna farm to the North in mind.  The restaurant is pretty good and they have a Pilot Shop. Also, they are in the process or just completed an upgrade to their long runway.   

[DS1980]

Chris has always got my back.

[par]

Thanks for the replies. I have more than enough to afford it, otherwise I would not be looking. However, I'm simply trying to inquire about a topic that I am not very knowledgable about at this point. After doing some research last night, the lease option is not something I will be doing. Otherwise, based on some of the responses, it looks like $350/mo is a fair rate for a twin and there is a possibility of sharing the space with someone in the future. I don't have a problem going the cover route either but a hangar will no doubt do a better job. Either way, I appreciate the answers.

[par]

I based my M20E in a hangar at KCPK for about 3 years starting in 1989, and then moved into Aerodyne's maintenance hangar at KPVG until I relocated in 1994.  You might check to see if Aerodyne @ PVG will rent space in their hangar.  Not an ideal situation.  How far are you from KPHF or KJGG?

 

I will check them out. I am located in VA Beach so KPHF and KJGG are not an option. KPVG is the preferred airport but I will drive a little farther if the savings are justified.

[par]

I missed the question about renting it out in my original reading.

Although I have no experience, good or bad, renting out is not for us. As a previous poster eluded to ... renters will never take care of your airplane as you would. I would just bust a vein over new scratches in the windows, or trash left ... or bent latches and hinges from doors being slammed or torqued the wrong way. Not to mention hard landings or improper engine management! But that's just me.

If it is for you, then you must calculate the rental potential at an airport and the rental income potential ... versus ... the higher insurance cost, the higher scheduled maintenance cost (I believe rental aircraft require 100 hr inspection vs. annuals? Maybe someone knows?) and the theoretical unscheduled maintenance cost as a result of the additional flying. Then there's the cost to overhaul your engine at TBO and the getting there more quickly? For a simple guy like me: If TBO is 2000 hrs and it will cost $20,000 ... then I know I should be placing $10 per flight hour in savings to be prepared when the day comes. (Knowing it may come sooner) Then there's .... tires, mags, oil changes, bi-annual IFR Certification, annuals, ELT Batteries etc. ... and unscheduled maintenance.

In the first year of our C, for example we needed: a new upper truss, new discs for the gear, had to overhaul the turn & bank indicator, had to repair a small gas leak around the Gascolator, new tires and inner-tubes ... Overhaul tne prop, overhaul the governor ... There's more, but you get the idea. The plane is 49 years old ...

They say plan on way higher maintenance costs the first year of ownership, and the first annual. I agree. I went into it with my eyes open, no regrets, but I didn't know then what I know now!

Did I mention our property tax bill(s) for owning an aircraft? Not trying to discourage you, but try to talk to owners and get numbers down on paper to see if this is doable for you. We would love, love love an Acclaim, an Ovation, or even a Baron ... but the C is easily doable for us and the budget is not strained. We sleep well ... no financial concerns ... and we are never tempted to skimp on maintenance ...

 

I understand all the costs involved. I guess they say what they say about boats, women, and airplanes for a reason. Luckily, being active duty allows me to skip the VA personal property tax and the sales tax is also low to start with so I will actually save some money. I am 100% sure about the C though...I don't think a better aircraft exists for the money.

[treebobboy]

OKAY, I thought I might not chime in, but the prices you gentlemen are quoting are way on the high side.  Here in Arkansas, we pay $37.50 a month for  "runway access fee" and we own the hangar!  I've got two hangars beside me that are for sale for less than $5000.  Yes, I know, that's all the way in redneck country, but, if you can spend one tenth of the cost, you might want to look into a possible relocation.  We have our own A&P/IA on the field and we have one of the best prop shops in the country also on the field.  The runway is 5000 plus feet and we even have a Cessna Citation stationed here.  If you are looking to something to do, we have the Ozark Folk Center, the White River and the Little Red River for trophy fishing,  and the Buffalo National River for folks that just want to see nature in its pristine best.  Before every starts flaming me, yes, I know this reads more like an advertisement, but seriously, you folks in other parts of the country are paying way to much to hangar your prized possessions.  It's kind of like gas prices------what is the most they can charge, before people cut down on their driving.  Lastly, the airport is 7M2, for those of you that have read this far.

[Ranger]

First post... Suffolk has good rates and availability. KSFQ $229/m for a single.

[par]

First post... Suffolk has good rates and availability. KSFQ $229/m for a single.

 

I actually ended up finding a hangar at Hampton Roads for $265/mo...which is much closer to me than Suffolk. 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Ranger!

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Hey!

There’s been a Ranger sighting... 

Welcome back, Ranger.

best regards,

-a-