Finally found a Mooney, next steps?

[Jakl]

Found a Mooney that fits all of our criteria. Going to have to wait a month or so until I return from TDY to make the transaction.

But between now and then what needs to be done? So far I have money in escrow, financing secured and the P&S done. I know I need to find a good A&P in south Florida who is familiar with mooneys.

The sellers cooperated with the price but they also said they didn't want to bother with the small common things found on all pre buys and they would only cover major discrepancies. What sort of minor problems could we expect?

Lastly, what sort of timeline did you guys go on when you purchased your mooneys? I plan to fly down, have it inspected, buy the plane and have some transition training the next day and then fly home.

Thoughts?

[carusoam]

Pre-purchase inspection.

Purchase agreement.

Everything is written down. Even if it is pencil on a scrap of paper.

You are not negotiating a new plane where everything is perfect.

You want to make sure you don't accidentally buy a hidden corrosion disaster. Cams, spars or leaky tanks can get expensive quickly.

Consider it a method of protecting your financial interests.

Who does the PPI and to what level will determine costs/risks.

Doing it all in one day leaves you open to mistakes that you can otherwise avoid.

In the case of a $200k Ovation. You go see it the first day. If everything looks like the advertisement, you send it to an MSC for inspection. This takes a day or so depending on scheduling. Getting things fixed may take another day. Training will be 2-3 days...

Generally it takes a week of work for you to protect your interests. If you want to cram it into a day or two, save some money, and load up your risk basket, this is a good way.

If you are treating it like a used car purchase, you will find some expensive mistakes.

If you are buying from a reputable dealer, you have some level of recourse. If you are buying from an individual you don't know, you are not being cautious enough.

A good deal is not necessarily the lowest cost deal.

It is better to spend a few bucks to make sure what you are paying for gets delivered.

Best regards,

-a-

[fantom]

Phil Jimenez

Avon Park

(863) 873-9999

He' been a Mooney guy and owner for decades down here and is quite reasonable.

If the seller is saying not to nickel and dime him, that's understandable but can only be determined after the PPI.

Good luck!

[carqwik]

It would be useful if you tell us the model/year/hours/upgrades etc. on the plane you're considering...so those with experience in that model can point out areas of concern....just sayin'

[carusoam]

Jakl,

Is that a '94 M20J MSE you are looking at?

The owner is reputable.

You would still want to go through the efforts of PPI and PA for protection against the unknown...

Best regards,

-a-

[fantom]

  On 10/8/2014 at 9:08 PM, carusoam said:

Jakl,

Is that a '94 M20J MSE you are looking at?

The owner is reputable.

-a-

a wonderful year and model...

[Jakl]

It's a 1986 M20J. Has a 430w, kcs55a, kap150, ski tube stc, about 4000 hours on airframe, 830 smoh, gtx327.

[Jakl]

So I need to plan for a week away and find a MSC to send it to for its pre buy. Then get 2 days of transition training before flying home. About 5 days. I'd rather catch as much as possible up front.

[Jakl]

Thinking about using these guys for the pre buy

http://www.mooneyservice.com/home.html

[triple8s]

Gonna throw this out there.............the most of all common mooney accidents are a landing, or issue involving a landing or go-round due to a bad approach to landing. A one day transition training is just hitting the high spots. I don't know your skill or flying history but I have heard some say....." Just watch your approach speeds, keep the nose up, and you'll be fine" I have to wonder how many that have went sliding off the runway or did the PIO to prop strike had been told that. If I were in a situation where I bought a plane (a mooney)out of state I would go ahead get a "Mooney" pilot to accompany or fly my bird home. If I sold my ovation and bought a 35 bonanza I would get a bonanza pilot to go with me to bring it back. Why? Because sh!t happens that's why and if it happens in an unfamiliar plane in the weather things can get nasty really quick. I had an instructor almost kill me and ruin my plane onetime so be sure to get a Mooney proficient person not just a high time CFI or pilot. I would rather have a long time mooney pilot off this forum than a high time CFI with no mooney experience to go if it were me, but that's just me. Oh, when you get checked out in it and comfortable with it..........You'll LOVE IT!

[Parker_Woodruff]

  On 10/8/2014 at 9:00 PM, fantom said:

Phil Jimenez

Avon Park

(863) 873-9999

He' been a Mooney guy and owner for decades down here and is quite reasonable.

If the seller is saying not to nickel and dime him, that's understandable but can only be determined after the PPI.

Good luck!

 

I will second Gary's recommendation for your prepurchase inspection.

[carusoam]

Bringing home my O took four days. Two days of transition training, and a long cross country that got delayed by a commercial jet overrun at my fuel stop. Probably 10hrs dual for insurance.

One runway was closed for paving, the other one closed because a regional jet ran off the end the other runway. Crap happens.

An easy 8? hour flight turned into two days.

I hired the transition CFII to aid me going the distance bringing the plane back. He flew home commercial. We saw 200+kt GS. Lots of IMC. And some ice on the approach to my home drome.

I had several hundred hours in a C prior to this.

Expect buying a J will have a similar experience to the O. It will be as serious, just not as fast.

Buy it safely, transition safely, get it delivered safely, then start the adventure.

Best regards,

-a-

[Robert C.]

I bought my Ovation now about 2 months ago. My 1st airplane, low time pilot, not an inveterate car tinkerer....i.e. mechanical/aviation babe in the woods.

 

i decided to spend $750 on SavvyMX which offers a pre-buy service. They find a shop, discuss the pre-buy with the shop, review the squawk list with you and advice you on how to deal with the seller on negotiating who pays for what.

 

My O was quite clean so the squawk list was rather short and straightforward and the value added by SavvyMX was modest, but if there had been judgment call issues I wouldn't have wanted to be without them.

 

Like others said above: don't know your background or experience level. Being low time I lined up a CFII for 12 days. We picked up the A/C, ferried it home (4.5hr flight) and combined the transition training with an accelerated IFR course; I passed the checkride on day 12 with 43 Mooney hrs in the log book and felt completely comfortable with the aircraft and how to operate it in a wide range of circumstances.

 

Do I have a lot left to learn? Absolutely! But I have a mechanically sound airplane and a good core of understanding on how to fly her and treat her.

 

The process worked for me, YMMV

 

Robert

 

PS: other than my honeymoon that was the best (and most intense) 2 week vacation period I ever took - well worth it

[Robert C.]

  On 10/8/2014 at 8:42 PM, Jakl said:

But between now and then what needs to be done? So far I have money in escrow, financing secured and the P&S done. I know I need to find a good A&P in south Florida who is familiar with mooneys.

 

 

This is off the top of my head most of what i went through. Some of these you can do ahead of taking delivery, others shortly after.

 

Insurance, arranging tie-down or hangar.

 

Research sales tax in your state. I bought an Alabama registered aircraft from a location in Georgia. I live in Connecticut. Had to register at the airport (in CT) for a registration sticker, have to get a particular tax form from CT Revenue to pay sales tax ("Use Tax" is the technical term here) in April.

 

Will you fly to the Bahamas or Canada or Mexico? Might as well get in gear and get what you need to apply for CBP sticker and screening, ditto registering with eAPIS. Technically you need to get the FCC radio license for that as well but many folks ignore that as noone ever seems to ask about that.

 

Think of flying to DC to see the Smithsonian? Take the SFRA course and if you want to land at the DC3 get the TSA screening done.

 

Do you have a wishlist for improvements - order them now while you're still in shock and fatalistic about the total financial outlay. e.g. engine heater, Engine monitor, AoA install, etc,

 

Airplane cover and cowl plugs, pitot cover (unless seller provides - mine didn't).

 

Garmin account so you can download data for the G430. SiriusXM if you use their weather product.

 

Order extra keys from a MSC (unless the seller has an extra set for you).

 

Inventory: microfiber rags, water spray bottle for cleaning, chocks, iPad mount? cigarette lighter power converter to charge iPad or cell phone. fuel tester, engine oil to carry, oil funnel, etc, etc.

 

Probably forgetting a few small things but this is most of what i hassled with the past few months of preparing for and living the new ownership experience.

 

Good luck!

 

Robert

[ArtVandelay]

The extra keys you can have made at Ace Hardware store, no MSC required.

Your wish list of improvements will grow as you fly the plane, there is a tendency to make it your own, something about the pride of ownership.

[Jakl]

List of wanted upgrades? AOA would be nice. A new comm panel and an aux input.

So my revised timeline involves us flying down on a Friday to check out the plane for ourselves. If it looks good, We have the MSC take it Saturday and finish by Monday (planned). Then I stick around from Monday to Thursday to learn the ropes. If it's all good, I fly it home. If not. I pay a CFI to fly back with me and pay his airfare home.

Does this sound more conservative?

[carusoam]

This is sounding better...

Just keep your eyes open.

The acquisition process is expensive, when you do it right.

It gets worse when you do it wrong.

The last thing you need is to take a short cut to save time or money...

The best money spent is on a PPI that fails...

For the record...

This experience comes from buying/selling commercial machinery. I have only successfully bought two Mooneys. I saved a boatload on a retractable Piper that had some hidden and not so hidden issues including Bondo and missing rivets....

Best regards,

-a-

[Bravoman]

  On 10/10/2014 at 12:16 PM, carusoam said:

This is sounding better...

Just keep your eyes open.

The acquisition process is expensive, when you do it right.

It gets worse when you do it wrong.

The last thing you need is to take a short cut to save time or money...

The best money spent is on a PPI that fails...

For the record...

This experience comes from buying/selling commercial machinery. I have only successfully bought two Mooneys. I saved a boatload on a retractable Piper that had some hidden and not so hidden issues including Bondo and missing rivets....

Best regards,

-a-

I agree wholeheartedly about a ppi that fails. Like a friend of mine likes to say, "your first loss is your best loss".

[Robert C.]

  On 10/9/2014 at 7:01 PM, teejayevans said:

The extra keys you can have made at Ace Hardware store, no MSC required.

Your wish list of improvements will grow as you fly the plane, there is a tendency to make it your own, something about the pride of ownership.

 

Guess that depends on your model. The newer Mooneys have Medeco ignition locks. Keys can only be ordered from Mooney via an MSC; they are $25 each. The cabin door key is "vanilla" and can be duplicated by any locksmith.

[Jakl]

So I spoke to a couple Mooney Service Centers about doing a pre-buy. One of the questions that came up both times was about the tanks and when they were last stripped and re-sealed (not patched). I looked into it and it looks like the tanks have never been done on a 28 yr old Mooney. Is this a red flag or normal? I'm hesitant now with a greater risk of a $10k repair that will need to be done likely in the near future.

[fantom]

There is no telling if or when tanks will need a strip and reseal. The flag may be more whiney than red, especially if as you said, you've already agreed on a price.

[Jakl]

  On 10/10/2014 at 9:26 PM, fantom said:

There is no telling if or when tanks will need a strip and reseal. The flag may be more whiney than red, especially if as you said, you've already agreed on a price.

 

Not sure I understand why it would be "whiney". This was just a direct suggestion from an MSC nearby and they even stated regardless of if there was an actual leak or not they would put the old tanks on the pre buy report to be re-done due to their age. 

[ArtVandelay]

  On 10/10/2014 at 9:35 PM, Jakl said:

Not sure I understand why it would be "whiney". This was just a direct suggestion from an MSC nearby and they even stated regardless of if there was an actual leak or not they would put the old tanks on the pre buy report to be re-done due to their age.

They want to reseal tanks because their age!?!

First of all, no way would I let them do that.

Second, if I was seller, I would laugh at you if you wanted a price reduction because nothing was wrong but there could be a problem in the future.

[Robert C.]

  On 10/10/2014 at 9:35 PM, Jakl said:

Not sure I understand why it would be "whiney". This was just a direct suggestion from an MSC nearby and they even stated regardless of if there was an actual leak or not they would put the old tanks on the pre buy report to be re-done due to their age. 

 

I took it as a pun...red wine...whiney being less red than red?

[chrisk]

  On 10/10/2014 at 9:35 PM, Jakl said:

Not sure I understand why it would be "whiney". This was just a direct suggestion from an MSC nearby and they even stated regardless of if there was an actual leak or not they would put the old tanks on the pre buy report to be re-done due to their age. 

It's a bit whiney because you would be complaining about the plane being old.   And well, your buying an old plane. 

 

It is however fair for the MSC to point it out.  You will likely have to deal with a leaking tank in the next 10 years of ownership, even if it is not leaking now.  Perhaps they pointed out other items that may potentially need maintenance soon?  Gear pucks, the propeller, oil lines, etc

 

As the seller, I would tell you it was already in the price of the plane.  Folks with a recent reseal advertise that fact and get more for their plane.  I would also point out that it is not an airworthy item, unless its leaking like a sieve.