Engine Replacement/Trade-In/Swap/Buy New?

[dcjohnst]

Let's say you're faced with an engine that has had a bad cam shaft and lifter problems (threw a rod once) and now has stainless steel in the oil filter and you're not quite sure what's going on but the engine only has 1400 hours and you're beginning to suspect that it's just a bad engine that chews up cam shafts. It's just one thing after another. Do you rebuild? Swap out? Buy New? Does anyone have any idea about the NET cost of these options for a Lycoming IO-360 on an M20J (i.e. after trading in the existing motor which can probably be rebuilt depending on what's wrong with it, and nobody really knows yet what's wrong?)

[N33GG]

Factory Reman.

[Andy95W]

Get roller tappets and separate magnetos on your reman engine from Lycoming.

And a Power Flow exhaust system if you want a bit more power.

[Lood]

+1 on the factory reman.

[orionflt]

++1 on factory reman

[Guest]

I'd look seriously at the AD 2012-19-01 and SB 569 and Lycoming's treatment of the consumer before I'd consider buying a factory engine.

Clarence

[scottfromiowa]

Who did the overhaul? Consumer Aviation did a good write-up on some of the top shops. Give it a read. 500+ since overhaul to new limits at Poplar Grove. Doing great so far with oversized cylinders. Knocking on wood as just like watching golf and the announcer says "That is his 15 green in regulation"....the guy pulls it into the lake.

My vote is to overhaul at a shop to new limits. A shop that has a good reputation.

[ArtVandelay]

A factory rebuilt is about $30K, and shop overhaul is about $23K.

Or go large (if you have a Hartzell prop) and get a rebuilt IO-390 for $32K, and get extra 10HP

[Guest]

Are you sure that it stainless steel in the oil filter? There is really nothing I can think of on the inside made of stainless steel.

If its a cam and lifter failure you have to consider repair versus overhaul very carefully, a lot depends on the airframe and its market value.

Clarence

[ArtVandelay]

Are you sure that it stainless steel in the oil filter? There is really nothing I can think of on the inside made of stainless steel.

If its a cam and lifter failure you have to consider repair versus overhaul very carefully, a lot depends on the airframe and its market value.

Clarence

That should be easy to check, SS is non-magnetic.

[Guest]

You are correct, but what on the inside of the engine is made of stainless steel?

Clarence

[John Pleisse]

Reman or new. Hopefully you could get $4k-$7k for your core.

[KSMooniac]

You are correct, but what on the inside of the engine is made of stainless steel?

Clarence

Nothing!  

[DaV8or]

I'd look seriously at the AD 2012-19-01 and SB 569 and Lycoming's treatment of the consumer before I'd consider buying a factory engine.

Clarence

 

Are any of the big, reputable engine shops offering roller lifters yet? That would be a major consideration for me.

[Mooneymite]

A high-time engine? Definitely a factory remain because all the accessories are probably worn out too. However, with a low time engine the question is tougher since there may still be a lot of life in the accessories and it's a shame to dump them. A field overhaul replacing only the out-of-limits parts may make sense.

1400 hours is probably toward the factory remain side, but there may be other factors to consider.

[N201MKTurbo]

Most of the hose fittings and the prop governor line are SS. Nothing else I can think of. If you are getting shiny metal in your oil filter that is non-magnetic it is probably aluminum.

[dcjohnst]

Turns out I should have said "alloy steel" in the filter, not "stainless." So it's crankshaft, connecting rod, or counterweight.  That's a laboratory finding so pretty definitive. The more I learn about replacing an engine the more sickening it gets. Just goes on and on and on... So, maybe gonna spend more time working to get a more specific diagnosis before going to extremes here... Thanks for your help!

[jetdriven]

could that be from cam or lifters? I know the lifters are chilled cast iron but what about the cam?

 

Which laboratory did you use?

[Guest]

Pulling two cylinders should allow for complete internal inspection of the engine exposing the camshaft and valve lifters, not a real big job to verify the metal source.

Clarence

[Alan Fox]

Poplar Grove , Western Skyways , Signature , I have done business with all three and have had only good experiences.......

[cujet]

Believe it or not, there are capable mechanics that will overhaul your engine, provide a warranty and use the very best parts available. 

 

I've had engines built by BPE (Barret Precision Engines) (Monty and Alan Barret) with fantastic success. These guys really understand the issues with the original designs, know what the best parts are, and provide an incredibly high quality product. 

 

All, for less than a factory engine, assembled with care, quite unlike a factory engine. 

[dcjohnst]

Clarence, I think you're on the same wavelength as mechanic... Got my fingers crossed hoping for connecting rod. Remote possibilities, but the other possibles are even more remote. Might be something else nobody's thought of. I understand not trusting Lycoming, but Continental's better? We're a captive market and they're murdering us... No wonder nobody wants to fly anymore.

[Alan Fox]

Murdering us ???? look at some of the judgements for failures.....its more like we are murdering them.....the reason they are expensive is because of people suing.......easy math......Someone has to pay.....

[rockydoc]

Make a few bucks and keep life interesting..Buy a different airplane with a decent engine, take everything you want out of your existing airplane and put it in your newly acquired airplane and then part out your existing airplane.  The sum of the parts is worth a whole lot more than the whole airplane.  Just saying.

[AESpecialists]

  In my (admittedly biased) opinion, I'd send your engine to a reputable overhaul shop (like us) where all of the AD's and SB's will be complied with, and you'll be able to preserve a maintenace history.

 

 A factory reman is just an overhaul with two notable exceptions:

 1. You get a brand new $4 blank logbook

 2. Your engine is built up out of anonymous servicable parts that could be anywhere from brand new to barely in limits.

 

  We had a fleet customer that went the factory reman route for a few engines. When one of them came to us at TBO,the crank failed the SB 505/530 inspection for corrosion. It was a rude, and rather expensive shock.