When to get a mooney

[iwantamooney]

Just looking for opinions.  i really like the mooney design as well as specs.  I have a dilemma.  Should I wait to rack up a few hours before upgrading and in the meantime just rent or purchase a little time building cessna, or say "heck with it" and get a J model and use it to get my ratings?  I am finishing up my ppl so I am obviously a low time pilot.  Any advice is appreciated.  (almost impossible to rent anything around here without driving 1.5 hours first.

 

 

[Mooneymite]

Didn't we just discuss this issue?

[carusoam]

Don't wait....

Don't rush...

Train more....

Seek professional help...(regarding training and maintenance)

Insist on a pre-purchase inspection...

Start working on your IFR...

The search button works too...

These are some of the ideas that I gained from MooneySpace.

Ymmv,

-a-

[DonMuncy]

My opinion: It depends on a bunch of factors. If you are early in your training, don't buy a Mooney yet. Learn in someone else's plane. If you only lack a few hours and have your landing abilities down pat, it is not as important.

If you KNOW you are going to get J eventually, buying one plane, selling it and buying another is somewhat wasteful, as pre-buys, travel to look, and expenses of sale might be avoided.

Buying and flying your own plane is expensive, but spending money to rent is money you will never get back. Going ahead and getting your plane will avoid some of that expense.

A lot depends on your personality. If you are super conservative and super patient, continuing your learning in the plane you will eventually fly has some value. However, a Mooney is fast enough and complex enough that without the patience to learn slowly, you could easily get in trouble.

[EDNR-Cruiser]

Just go for it - provided you have a good FI for the transitional training.

The Mooney is just another plane and nothing spectacular, if I may add... - it's just a tad faster and more efficient and wants to be flown a bit more than the other types around...   :-)

Just one more word from my examiner:
You will hardly ever be better trained than the moment you passed your exam... - you can now either enjoy your success or continue learning...

I decided for the latter, immediately began the training for our IFR Warrior, got my night flying permission, went for the IFR radio license (the German AZF) and bought my Mooney with just 120 hrs total flight time on fixed wing under the belt...

The first 2 hours of training showed me how little I knew but then it got better and after 5 hrs of training my FI had a broad grin in his face!  :-)
 

[iwantamooney]

Im definitely going to get the ppl first in someone else's plane.  More specifically, should i build up several hours of "practice" in a less complex plane, or not worry about the transition too much even with low time?

 

My options are:

 

1)Rent, which means flying a lot less often.

 

2)buy a 150 or 172 build up some time/experience, interment rating.  Sell and move up.

 

3)finish ppl, transition into mooney.

 

How long is the insurance dual usually for a low time pilot?

[TWinter]

Rent during training, Then #3.

Insurance depends, usually 10-20 hrs dual after PP and a few hours under your belt.

[Danb]

I got my private in a Warrior then purchased a J model to transition to while getting my instrument rating. My instructor was a Mooney guy and I was meeting my insurance requirement and instrument at same time, like killing 2 birds with same stone. When I went for my check ride I was extremely comfortable in my plane and ready..

[bnicolette]

I'd say if you've already got past your solo then I think the J would be a great platform to train on.  I would have no reservations about taking on a student in a J or below.  The J is an economical machine and a very stable platform.  I think you'll be way ahead of the game if you train in the airplane you're going to fly.

[garytex]

I sat in the back and watched a student trying to learn the turn to final, judging the approach to landing and the landing flare in a 182.  It is a heavier more powerful a/c than a trainer with a twist-em-up prop, but without the folding feet.  He was so far behind the airplane, it reminded me of the time some fool let me fly a 421 to landing during a joyride.  The plane landed, but I was mentally several miles behind it at touchdown.  My mind caught up, something like a rubber band snapping back, about a minute after we landed.  I didn't learn a damn thing about landing a 421, except that I was overwhelmed with task overload landing a 421.  The guy in the 182 took much longer to master that phase of the learning experience. I would suggest that it may be beneficial to keep it simple, till you have well under control the turn to base, & final, down the glideslope and the landing flare. It might be more efficient for you to stay in a trainer. Also the gear is more robust, and cheaper too

Have fun,

Gary

[Matt Michael]

If you decide to buy a C150 let me know.  I just bought Mooney and my 150 will be looking for a home

[201er]

Get your license and then buy your J. Use the insurance-mandated dual transition time towards your instrument rating if that is the type of flying that you think that you might want to do.

Agreed. Except that you don't need to think if you want an instrument rating. You don't buy a Mooney if (at least eventually) this isn't the goal.

 

I got away with an entire year of VFR only flying (while instrument training) when I just got my 201. However, since then, I've been flying so far away that most of these flights would be impossible without some IFR. Also you don't come close to using your Mooney's potential without being IFR capable.

[mikesalman]

I got my PPL Sept 22 2012. On Jan 22 2013 I purchased My M20F with only 125 hours of total flying time, I can't say it was easy since there were no Mooney CFI's in Memphis but with 15 hours of duel and 10 more solo and $1800 for my first year of insurance I made it thrugh. Would I recommend you do the same?

Lets see $250 per month X 11 months $2,750 + $2000 annual +$2500 in upgrades and repairs along the way=$7250.00

Divide that by the 38 hours I was able to fly and you get $190.79 per hour. The fact that its my bird and I can proudly say she's mine is priceless.

[Hank]

As I've said before, my C became available locally a month or two before my check ride. Finally convinced myself to ignore it and finish my PPL. Took check ride on 21 May, wrote whopping check on 26 June. My logbook had 62 hours, all in Skyhawks. Insurance was painful.

Flew 100 hours before renewal, rates fell 50%. That fall took the wife VFR to Yellowstone and back, with one weather delay each way. Third year's insurance was equal to second. Finished grad school, but had to stop enroute home once and leave the plane, very grateful to land in Roanoke, VA; six weeks later I did a 180 and didn't pick up my mother and we did not go to our family reunion. The next week I started Instrument training. My next insurance renewal fell another 30%, I feel more confident in aircraft control, I fly above undercast and in actual if there's no convection lurking around, otherwise I stay visual above or below the layer.

I've heard of student pilots completing training in their Mooney, but they all required significant additional time before their checkride. Buy a Mooney whenever you find a good one at a reasonable price. If it's while still a student, think hard and talk over with your instructor before deciding to complete your PPL in the Mooney. You will have 15-20 hours with a CFI before soloing the Mooney even after your PPL.

Use the Search bar and find George Perry's excellent thread about what to look for in a vintage Mooney. That thread is becoming vintage, too, dating back to probably 2009 or so, but it's full of good information.

Good luck, and fly safe!

[kmyfm20s]

Got to learn sometime:) I would buy!

[PTK]

...Should I wait ... or purchase... a J model...now?

Purchase now! Immediately!!!

[iwantamooney]

Thanks for all the insight.  I'll be deciding over the next few weeks.

[mike_elliott]

 

 

How long is the insurance dual usually for a low time pilot?

 

For a freshly minted, sub 100 hr pilot, expect to pay 3-4K for a 80K hull value and expect to be required to have 25 maybe more dual transition training. Don't mess around here, get a mooney specific CFI for this, it will pay off in the long run. The principle of primacy comes into play and you might as well learn how to fly the mooney correctly instead of having to unlearn a something later on. There are a number of good Mooney CFI's around to do this transition training/Instrument training for you, depending on where you want to be trained. Once you have 250 hours Retract and an Instrument rating, you can expect a substantial drop in your insurance premiums. Might I also suggest you seek out knowledgeable help in purchasing your Mooney when the time comes. You will save the cost of this easily.

[Hank]

I paid $3100 for $80K in 2007, with 62hours and no retract. I flew 15 hours with a Mooney CFII that the insurance company approved, but I was turned down by several companies, too. At renewal, with 100 Mooney hours, I paid $1700. I've been told by people in the business that rates have fallen since then; I know that my own certainly has, and not just because I finished my Instrument Rating.

Check with a broker in your area, and give Falcon a call. It's not as bad as you may be afraid it is. First year rates are certainly cheaper than renting for 100 hours.

One suggestion: rent something long enough to get your Complex Endorsement before you buy. Ten or fifteen hours will significantly reduce your rates and make you less risky to insure.

[N601RX]

I paid $2300 for 65K my 1st year. That was with 67 hrs is a cessna 150. They asked for 15hrs dual and 10 solo before carrying passengers. The next year it came down to $1400.  Be sure your agent shops it will all the underwriters.  I found out after the 1st year that my agent had not and moved to Airpower for the better rate.

[mike_elliott]

A student of mine recently insured 85K hull, about 120 hrs, 2 years since last flown, needs 30 hours before pax, 20 dual, 10 solo. $3300, but was refused by a whole bunch of agencies. I believe it Aerospace who has underwritten it. Zero retract. Insurance has went down, but not in the "high risk" arena

Like Hank noted, after 100 hours in type, there is a nice drop, and again at 250 there usually is. Don't let this be your hangup, just be prepared when you purchase.

[kmyfm20s]

I'm down to $709 for AAA rated insurance company at http://www.usaircraftfinance.com They do all the shopping for you each year at renewall time, I've been very happy with them.

[JasonW]

For a freshly minted, sub 100 hr pilot, expect to pay 3-4K for a 80K hull value and expect to be required to have 25 maybe more dual transition training. Don't mess around here, get a mooney specific CFI for this, it will pay off in the long run. The principle of primacy comes into play and you might as well learn how to fly the mooney correctly instead of having to unlearn a something later on. There are a number of good Mooney CFI's around to do this transition training/Instrument training for you, depending on where you want to be trained. Once you have 250 hours Retract and an Instrument rating, you can expect a substantial drop in your insurance premiums. Might I also suggest you seek out knowledgeable help in purchasing your Mooney when the time comes. You will save the cost of this easily.

I purchased a 1981 J a couple weeks ago with a partner.  My PIC time is 85 hours with 20 of it in a Comanche and my Partner’s time is 65 with 0 Complex/High performance.   The insurance for us is $2500 for $75k Hull coverage with no time requirements.  We just needed to be checked out by an instructor approved by the insurance company.    2.5 hours of ground and 1.5 in the air and I’ve been signed off.   I’d get your PPL and find one as soon after as you can!!

[DrBill]

After my PPL I bought a low wing (my preference) plane to do my IFR in. I looked at Cherokees, Grumman and many more. I ended up with a Beech Sundowner and had it (with a partner) for 7 years. It was a great plane to get hours and my IFR in. When my partner wanted out I got the Mooney and do not regret getting it later in my flying life. I have so many good experiences in the Beech and it helps me really appreciate the advantages of the Mooney (primarily speed). The transition to the Mooney was a learning experience and I'm glad I had a lot of IFR and IMC experience in the Beech. Everything comes SO MUCH FASTER in the MOONEY. My insurance required 10 dual and 10 solo prior to carrying passengers. I think that is a good amount. For my 10 hrs solo, I flew to many local airports that I had not been to before and that was a great excercise with the new plane.

Good luck in your decision. And sooner or later we'll welcome you to the Mooney family.

BILL

[AlanA]

I was in your exact position 10 years ago.  With zero hours in retractable, and zero hours in a Mooney I I went straight from my Private to buying a 1980 J model.   If I remember my insurance was about $2400. 12 hours of dual was required.  

 

If you know you want a Mooney I would recommend you buy it now.  I agree with other posts which say to get your dual from a pilot experienced in a Mooney.

In particular practice stalls in the Mooney.  You will find it much different that your trainer planes!   

 

Also practice engine management, and landing.  You will get the hang of it pretty quickly.

Good luck.   Also come back to Mooneyspace to ask questions about the things that are unfamiliar to you.