Looking for a mooney e

[Brett Kallish]

Well I finally sold my cheetah and am going to use the money to buy an e model. I have been on mooneyspace for about a year and have learned a ton of stuff. Now I was wondering if somebody here know of any for sale. The perfect airplane would have a sloped windshield, cowl closure mod, resealed or bladder tanks and autopilot. I seek any combination of these criteria and plan to spend between 40 and 50 thousand pretty much anywhere in the country. Any help someone on mooneyspace can give would be greatly appreciated.

[Danb]

Welcome

[DrBill]

Kallish, I think you will find your Mooney sooner or later. I was lookig for one 2 years ago and it took me about 3-4 months. I limited my search to within 300mi of CLT and I found my plane advertised on Controller.com by a Louiville broker but he wisely put the plane location as NC ! I just love my E.

BILL

[rbridges]

I scoured the barnstormer, controller ads.  You may also check someone like Jimmy Garrison at All American.

[Bob_Belville]

I bought my '66E for just a little more than your budget about 2 years ago. It had a STEC50 A/P, all possible mods including 201 w'shield, cowl, bladders, plus recent Hartzell Scimitar prop, 1 piece belly, stormscope, low time on FRM engine, and more. I suppose the market is weaker now than it was when I bought.

 

After a few months flying with good but older radios I wound up putting a good bit more money into it to make the IFR panel more reliable and modern.

[BigTex]

The challenge now is that I suspect folks with really nice planes are holding onto their planes unless they need to sale them until hopefully the market turns around. So buyers are mainly finding sub-par planes. Tough market for both buyers and sellers.

[Z W]

Welcome. You should find a nice example in that price range. If I were you, I would not rule out a nice C model.

Your priority list is a little odd. The speed mods are great, but you won't notice them once you start flying. Tanks are important, but even freshly sealed can leak. It is a well kept secret that a good A&P can patch a minor leak. Just plan on it.

Also, you say "autopilot" but that can mean anything from a factory wing leveler to a STEC with altitude pre-select and GPSS steering.

If I were you, I would focus on engine time, a WAAS gps, a standard 6-pack panel layout, an engine monitor, an autopilot with altitude hold, decent paint / interior, fresh tank seal, sloped windshield, cowl closure, in that order.

You probably won't find an E with all of that, unless you get lucky. But when you start flying around, you will wish you had those features in roughly that order, I would bet. Good luck with the hunt.

[Steve65E-NC]

What is your general physical location?  In this price range you will probably not be making multiple trips across the country to look at aircraft.

[Z W]

Good point, but in his price range, he can get a good IFR bird. VFR only planes are 20-30k now. Spending 40-50k on a plane without the cloud stuff would not make a lot of sense.

And he is going to run into weather systems a lot faster at E speeds than at cheetah speeds.

My opinion only.

[TWinter]

I am considering letting my E go, but I honestly don't think it will fall within the budget you mention. Feel free to PM me for details if you are really in the market for a nice E that is ready to go.

[rbridges]

I am considering letting my E go, but I honestly don't think it will fall within the budget you mention. Feel free to PM me for details if you are really in the market for a nice E that is ready to go.

 

sorry to hear that.  different plane or giving up owning altogether?

[scottfromiowa]

I find looking at prices/aircraft for sale to be entertaining so I do it on a regular basis. I have not and do not see E Models in that price range with those options very often...and if I do they are run out. Buy a J that has all those options and a decent panel and more room. It will be a money pit, at the bottom of the price range, but you will be putting money into any plane...a LOT of money. Put the money into a bigger faster plane that is more desireable and will be worth more when you sell it...than an E model. Ten years ago you could NOT get into a J for the entry level price you are seeing in 2013. I would have bought an older tired J and made it mine instead of an E with the current market. You will be buying a plane that is 10-15 years younger too.

[Bob_Belville]

Scott, do you have a feel for the difference in price between say our '66Es (biggest production year for Es) and a 77 or 78 J (biggest J years) with everything else being equal: engine time, paint, interior, panel. Is it $20k? More?

 

What if the E has all the 201 improvements?

 

What about the most popular Fs which was '67?

 

Bob 

[TWinter]

rbridges,

 

Oh my goodness..No!!, Never giving up until my wings are clipped, hopefully not for sometime way down the road I hope. I have been really putting some effort into shopping for a long body and more fuel capacity. There are three or four Mooneys that I have in my sites. I'm working on logistics and some finance options. Unfortunately, for you guys I think I'm here to stay for the long haul . Just looking at the possibility stepping my game up. 

[mike_elliott]

rbridges,

 

Oh my goodness..No!!, Never giving up until my wings are clipped, hopefully not for sometime way down the road I hope. I have been really putting some effort into shopping for a long body and more fuel capacity. There are three or four Mooneys that I have in my sites. I'm working on logistics and some finance options. Unfortunately, for you guys I think I'm here to stay for the long haul . Just looking at the possibility stepping my game up. 

Consider getting the IR while you still have the E, things go a bit slower and easier!

[scottfromiowa]

Bob, what you have done with your panel is amazing...awesome! I love your plane, but I don't see 1966-1967 M20E's selling for over $75k regardless of what they have. The J has what our E's have (speed) and the addition of more back seat and baggage...So many 1977-78 J's out there and on the market...The short bodied Mooney's have a ceiling...Your plane is a beauty, but finding a buyer that will say "yes" over a J is a tough one...I think it is also a tough market for early J's as a nice 1978 is competing with J's that are newer and have removeable back seat and less age...$20k is a good price point between a good E and a "good J". You can buy E's for 40-50k all day...same as when I bought my plane...but you could not buy a J for under $70k. That has changed as some J's are getting well under that in the current market. I was in the $50k area when I bought my plane...I would NOT sell my plane for $70k. I am sure you would not either. I love my plane, but I would love a J....more.

[Bob_Belville]

Thanks Scott. I completely agree with your analysis though I don't spend a lot of time perusing TradeAPlane, Controller, etc.

 

Jimmy Garrison's worksheet (Sept 2012) has these values for 2500TT/900SMOH 

'78J: $75k 

'67F: $49k 

'66E: $43k 

'65C: $37k 

 

(This might not be apples to apples, I suspect the base specs includes more for the '78J than for the older planes, e.g. a '75E is $55k and a '77J is $74.) 

 

Admittedly I haven't looked real hard, but I have never seen an E (or a J, F, or C) with GTN 750, Aspen and EDM 930s for sale. We assume new radios will be deeply discounted.  

[Marauder]

I debated real hard with myself whether to sell my F before I upgraded the panel. I looked at a number of Js and the price jump wasn't worth it. Most had close to original panels or just a 430 in it. For me, the difference was selling a known airframe that I spent decades working out the bugs, to one that was a complete unknown. And with the speed mods I have, the extra 5 knots on the older Js wasn't worth the cost.

[mooneygirl]

I would also mention it would be good to join MAPA our professional association and check their classified section in the monthly magazine the MAPA Log.  I have had my E model ten years now, and would not trade it for the world.

As some have said, it is a perfect platform for learning IFR.  I do have the wing-leveler system only, no auto pilot.  As Bill Wheat from Mooney says "They are SPRY!"  Which I agree with completely.  Good luck on your search. And welcome again to the Mooney family.

[Marauder]

I would also mention it would be good to join MAPA our professional association and check their classified section in the monthly magazine the MAPA Log. I have had my E model ten years now, and would not trade it for the world.

As some have said, it is a perfect platform for learning IFR. I do have the wing-leveler system only, no auto pilot. As Bill Wheat from Mooney says "They are SPRY!" Which I agree with completely. Good luck on your search. And welcome again to the Mooney family.

Any update on Bill?

[Bob_Belville]

I debated real hard with myself whether to sell my F before I upgraded the panel. I looked at a number of Js and the price jump wasn't worth it. Most had close to original panels or just a 430 in it. For me, the difference was selling a known airframe that I spent decades working out the bugs, to one that was a complete unknown. And with the speed mods I have, the extra 5 knots on the older Js wasn't worth the cost.

Yeah. And even if we didn't already own our E or F I'm not sure the decision is much different. Since no existing Js, Es, or Fs have the $50k avionics we want to fly with I'm not so sure adding that $50k to an $50,000 E or F is likely to cost us more at resale time than adding the same $50k to a $75,000 J.

 

I am guessing that buyers will come to realize that the M20 and Lycoming technology is over 50 years old and we can't change it much... except for the avionics.

[Brett Kallish]

Thank you for all of these replies. I am based in allentown pa. I basically have no need for a wass GPS and as for engine time I am looking for less than 1200 and hopefully a Johnson bar for the landing gear. This probably will be the last airplane that I will buy so resale value is not important. Interior I can do myself as I did on my cheetah but I am looking for the fastest e I can find. Again thanks for all your input.

[rbridges]

I debated real hard with myself whether to sell my F before I upgraded the panel. I looked at a number of Js and the price jump wasn't worth it. Most had close to original panels or just a 430 in it. For me, the difference was selling a known airframe that I spent decades working out the bugs, to one that was a complete unknown. And with the speed mods I have, the extra 5 knots on the older Js wasn't worth the cost.

 

I can relate.  Although  I have more to gain by going to a J than you, I have a relatively good C that has been de-squawked for the most part.  I'd hate to start over.

[Z W]

Kallish,

 

Sounds like maybe you want an E model with a "J" or Lopresti cowling.  They exist, but are rare.  This is different from the standard "cowl closure" or "guppy mouth" mod that almost every plane has.  It was a $15k mod, or so I've heard.  You can spot them by the cowl with the two small, round openings on each side on the top, like a modern Mooney has.  The plane should outrun a J, with all the mods done, and has much, much better engine cooling than a stock E.

 

I know you said you don't have any need for a WAAS GPS.  You didn't ask, but as I mentioned before, your super fast E model is going to run across weather much faster than your cheetah did.  If you don't have an instrument rating, or fly IFR, even to bust small cloud layers, you will find yourself very limited in the type of flying you can do.  It's hard to take any trip at 145 knots and not cross a weather front.  If you start flying, or even training for, IFR, you will wish very much you had a WAAS.  At your price range, you can afford one, and it will be much cheaper to buy it installed than to install it later.

 

Just some free advice from the internet.  Take it or leave it.  Welcome to the Mooney family.

[Bob_Belville]

Thanks Scott. I completely agree with your analysis though I don't spend a lot of time perusing TradeAPlane, Controller, etc.

 

Jimmy Garrison's worksheet (Sept 2012) has these values for 2500TT/900SMOH 

'78J: $75k 

'67F: $49k 

'66E: $43k 

'65C: $37k 

 

(This might not be apples to apples, I suspect the base specs includes more for the '78J than for the older planes, e.g. a '75E is $55k and a '77J is $74.) 

 

Admittedly I haven't looked real hard, but I have never seen an E (or a J, F, or C) with GTN 750, Aspen and EDM 930s for sale. We assume new radios will be deeply discounted.  

Upon further review, sure enough I discover that in Jimmy's worksheet a J is assume to have an autopilot while an E of F does not. So... removing the A/P from the J and adding common 201 mods: windshield, instrument panel, cowl, 1 pc belly to the E the comparison for a basic plane with 2500TT & 900SMOH:

77J $63400 (clicking "no autopilot" deducts $10k)

66E $50780

(75E $62740!)

As Arte, Wolfgang, Johnson would say: "Very Interesting... (Kids, sorry for the 40 year old L-I reference.)