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I'm so sorry, but when I saw the title of the thread, I immediately thought...

Most MSers are probably familiar with the M20 that I picked up. It was listed here as a Free M20A in southeastern Wi. It ended up not being an A model but a straight 0-320 powered M20. I thought I would start a separate new thread to share bringing it back to airworthy. I’ll update this thread as I do the “ inspect and repair as necessary”, or IRAN. This will be probably a year long process to get it flying as my full time job is quite busy and I commute 5 hours home on weekends from Southeastern Wi. My plan is to get it flying, fly it a bit and then sell it. As much as I’d like to keep it long term, it’s just too expensive and I’m not willing to spend that kind of money when I’m done working full time in a year and a half. I’ll start updating this thread from the beginning to where the project is today. Thanks, David

I think it is important to have a philosophy when designing a panel because there is so much available that it is easy to get carried away. In my case the driving force was reliability; I was tired of playing whack-a-mole with old avionics. I designed to protect against only single failures. The new equipment is so reliable that I reasoned the joint probability of two failures on a single flight was nil. But, every piece of equipment will have some finite failure rate and I wanted to minimize the installed equipment to maximize the reliability over my period of ownership. Others may certainly have different philosophies that might drive different decisions.

Hi Mike and Shadrach, I copied my earlier response as it does explain why we did what we did. In order to attain a FAA TSO approved lithium battery with an STC for a certified aircraft, it took over 5 years of time and resources, encompassing over 161 different tests to be completed and passed to engineer a battery that meets or exceeds all of the safety and performance regulations. The ETX900-TSO model with 15.6Ah achieved this. I understand you WANT more, but more is not needed based on A LOT of empirical data and tests. There is engineering and FAA regulations to govern the safety and reliability for everything on or in your plane. From the fuel tanks and how many gallons you can carry, to the wheels, to the propeller, to the length of your wings, etc. This battery is no different. I agreed to come on this forum to help answer questions for knowledge and understanding as up until now, you had no other choice but a lead acid battery. We worked very hard to provide an alternative choice, and it is just that, a choice.

Was this already posted? If so, I’ll delete it. https://m.facebook.com/groups/218676792817854/permalink/1052348919450633/?

No, I would buy their full cover set. also, I bought the lightweight material. they have a set for outdoor storage

I have told quite a few passengers to randomly pull the throttle to idle while we are flying so I can practice engine out. So far nobody has done it....

The saving grace for a lot of engine failure accidents is that the engine failure was caused by fuel exhaustion. So no post impact fire.

While that is a good idea, most people who burn to death in a Mooney crash die from knocking a wing off and rupturing a fuel tank. Turning off the master is a great idea, because it will remove a lot of ignition sources for all that gas that was scattered around.

Hi Z W, Sorry to hear that happened to you! EarthX does have built in protection for many different "abuses" that can happen with a battery and over voltage is one of them. (This is why Cirrus coined the phrase that is it a "smart" battery). But to answer your question, nothing would have happened to the battery if a FBO used a 24V jump pack on your 12V battery as it protects itself from such an event. However, your other equipment that is 12V would have still been damaged. Part of the built in protection features is the battery has a local LED light indicator and it is also remotely mounted on your panel as the battery can annunciate to you with different flashing codes if something is outside of normal and should be investigated. Here is a link to a quick reference on what is being monitored: https://earthxbatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/220707-LED-Indicator-Quick-Reference.pdf It has been said that lead acid batteries do not need anything like this and the built in electronics is something to worry about failing, but as you experienced firsthand, protection would be a welcomed feature if it was possible, but acid does not play well with others, and it is not possible to have built in protection.

They wont even allow IFR traffic to transit through. I laughed at the controller when they told me that "Must be nice" is what I said to them. I now just fly across the pond when I need to get to WI. Flying in NY and out of NY airspace has thrown me every possible curve ball. At this point nothing bothers me besides getting 3 full reroutes in a row Meanwhile in NY, directly over JFK: Or directly over LGA: Or over NYC itself:

I look at the engine elephant in the room a bit differently: I either can afford to own an airplane or I can't. Part of that decision is being able to drop $40K on an engine at any given time. Unless you are running an actual business as opposed to a hobby (which is what flying is for me) the idea of keeping an accrual account and 'paying' into it every month just seems silly. As @M20F says, what happens when the engine goes TU and you only have $10K saved? Personally, I think that 'approach' explains why many aircraft are rotting on ramps...in reality the owner really couldn't afford to own and the plane was sent to the ramp when a big item like an engine OH raised its ugly head and the 'reserve' was insufficient to cover the unplanned expense. Apologies if that comes across harsh.

I have manual gear. My father in law (also a pilot) teases me that all the knob turning and lever pumping makes it look like I’m running a steam engine during approach and take off.

I have a gas-powered golf cart, but out in the country, it's not going on any trips. I fill it with avgas, just because car gas goes bad so fast. I probably use ~5 gallons annually, so the additional cost and trouble are negligible. It usually takes just a couple of minutes to fill up in the driveway.

I believe that the FAA answer is that a pilot/owner can sign off an AD only if it says so in the AD. While lubing flight controls can be done under preventative maintenance, AD 73-21-01 does not say anything about a pilot being able to certify the compliance so, he/she could do the work under supervision but an “appropriately rated” mechanic must sign it off. The Bendix ignition switch AD, 76-07-12, however, does say, “3. The checks required by this AD may be performed by the pilot.” from the FAASTeam:

Having spent eight of my 30-year ATC career in Tucson (5 tower, 3 TRACON), depending on the time of day, I wouldn’t be surprised if CD, Ground, and Local were combined but the departure control sounding like the same guy was a coincidence. The approach control is a separate facility located on D-M AFB. Side note: Great to see someone from my old stomping grounds. I grew up in Mesa, learned to fly at CHD, had my Mooney hangared at GYR, and spent five years working at PHX tower.

People who point out an overhaul could be needed at any time are correct, but there's a separate aspect of this that may or may not matter to you: valuation. Even though you can't predict when an overhaul might be needed, everyone still appraises aircraft based on engine hours, and sales prices generally reflect that. For example, it would be reasonable to appraise M20J airplanes with a $20/hour engine time adjustment, based on an estimated $40K overhaul cost and 2000 hour TBO. A specimen with a fresh overhaul might be advertised at $140K; while an otherwise identical specimen with 2000 SMOH might be advertised at $100K. Now, the former could suffer infant mortality and need major engine work next week; while the latter might go another 1000 hours with no trouble. But because valuation is a statistical betting game, the difference in asking/sales price is going to be close to the cost of an overhaul, and therefore the value of an airplane really does decline significantly with engine use. So... if you have reason to preserve the value of your aviation enterprise, you might put $20/hour into an engine kitty, such that the value of the actual airplane plus the value of the kitty stays relatively constant (modulo market fluctuation, inflation, etc.) If you sell the airplane before overhaul, you likely get out about what you put in, from the sale price plus reclamation of the kitty. If you overhaul the engine before you sell the airplane, you'll have to come up with additional funds because the kitty won't cover it. But at that point you'll have an airplane that is worth more than when you bought it - probably about as much more as the out-of-pocket funds you used to cover the difference between the kitty and the actual overhaul cost. It's fair to say this is kind of a silly exercise for a private owner using an airplane for pleasure - I agree with @MikeOH that you can either afford it or you can't. But it can make a lot of sense to fund an engine overhaul kitty in a partnership, or in an airplane that is primarily a business asset.

But do you have a roof fund? And an AC fund? And an engine overhaul fund? All separate?

Stopped at KUBS on our way from SW FL to Osage Beach. Dan is fantastic at the FBO.

Thank you for pointing that out. Where I live, it is often gusty and very windy. Mine will have to unfortunately sit outside while I find/build a hangar. It would suck to mess up the paint with a loose cover flapping away at it.

I might also suggest pulling the pma7000, cleaning the connections as much as possible on both the unit and rack, then re-racking it.

I just try to keep a slush fund for whatever jumps up. Aircraft engine. Car accident. Life.

Over in safety, the numbers are around 10 - 15% from failure of equipment. 80 - 85% are unsafe acts of people. And about 1 - 1.5% from acts of God (unavoidable)

Hi Mike, I apologize, I focused on the part of the post that said "spraying acid all over the inside of the battery box, which then dripped out the drain onto the tarmac" as that clearly would not happen to the plane if it was a lithium battery. In the scenario of someone using a 24V jump on a 12V battery, the BMS protects the battery only, the BMS does not protect the other equipment on the plane.

Would you share that list?

So I went ahead and ordered the cover. $300 less than Bruce's. Nice quality and many colors. Fits great and 3 tie down straps. Would definitely recommend. Just for nights on the road, not a hangar replacement.

Please pass along the contact info of the owner as I’d like to become his new best friend and help him keep my next plane in perfect cosmetic condition.

@Vance Harral - @N201MKTurbo is right. I dropped in at about 9PM and they were super chill. Here's the route: https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/N226C/history/20240808/0258Z/06C/06C I just radio'd in, said I was over the Northbrook VOR and requested southbound, then northbound, along the VFR corridor at 1500 or lower. They were chill the whole ways and gave me notams when I was headed back to Schamburg for REIL's out. They also had a DA40 on flight-following that even at 60% power, I was overtaking.

My panel is far from being finished at this point so can't do any manual tests. But yeah, after thinking about it, doesn't make much sense. We are trying to come up with a plan for 2 failures - PFD and electrical. Most likely will be one or the other, but in case both do fail, should have enough navigation capability to land somewhere quickly.

I would second the commercial power off landing. Even if you have no intention on getting your commercial license, practice that maneuver. The best way to figure out how to plan and execute a power off landing is practice, practice, practice. You will get a feel for it and will know how much downwind and base is necessary to hit your spot. The Mooney is different than most planes. The Mooney glides very well, so there is as much chance of overshooting your spot as coming up short. Both are bad.

I definitely don’t struggle, I deny it’s an emergency. It can make it loud, it can make it cold, it can make it a little wet, and it can cost you a few knots but that’s about it.

Yes, it does. Uses the same antenna option as the G5. Works quite well.

Congress has been doing that for a long time.

It's an easy equation. Projected cost of overhaul divided by hours remaining to TBO = hourly set-aside for overhaul For a mid time engine on a J $50/hour is probably a little low.

I think it's Rev H, 11/1/85. BTW, I think the schematic you posted is the one for the gear motor, not the flaps... It shows a couple of relays which are not there in the flaps circuitry.

I use all of 'em! 1st person: I, me; we, us 2nd person: you; ya'll 3rd person: he, him, she, her; they, them, all ya'll These are the ones that comply with the basic rules of English grammar. My Mooney, sadly, doesn't have a fixed pronoun, usually "it" but sometimes "she" (even though she's not a boat!).

You chose wisely.

Who, whom, which, and what. I only use interrogative pronouns.

This thread argument reminds me of the same new technology arguments that came up when anti-lock brakes first came out. All the pro racers said they could do better than the anti-lock brakes could and for awhile the pro racers were correct but only in the fact the anit-lock brake systems sucked so bad it was a hinderance more than an asset but the companies kept at it and today i do not know of any pro racers that do not have anti-lock brakes in their cars. Same thing happened with manual compared to automatic transmission systems. At first a manual system were faster and more fuel efficient but the double clutch systems soon where able to shift faster than any human could manually and by designing 8, 10 and even 12 gears into the automatic they are now more efficient than the manual system too. They only advantage left in having the manual is the overhaul is much cheaper than the automatics. i think the lithium and their variants of batteries will be the standard in the future especially when the economy of scale helps with the prices (thank you cirrus for shipping new planes with this new technology) that we all might afford it in the near future.

My OH engine in the 252 had ~ 100 hrs since last flown. It's been "pickled" according to the IA. It will have a "pre-oil procedure" before being run. Borescope of cylinders looks fine. We will see!

I think there would be interest in a dual EarthX set up giving more reserve Ah over a conventional AGM while still yielding a significant weight reduction. No downside to more capacity for less weight save for maybe the price. A single EarthX would increase my plane's Useful Load to approximately 1084lbs. I'd gladly give up 6lbs of that for greater capacity.

I was ferring a plane to the Seattle area and the transponder quit. I called to get a waiver and talked to the author of that NOTAM. back to the original thread. We have a contract tower. It is fully staffed. All the voices we have grown accustomed to have changed in the last year and all sound much younger. Things still work OK. The last time I flew to KTUS It took forever for CD to answer, When I contacted ground, it was the same guy. When I contacted tower, it was the same guy, When I contacted departure, it was the same guy. So, it seems the FAA has some issues...

Thanks Mike for correction of my typo and I did correct it. Good catch. I did notice you mentioned a 20 pounds weight savings if you are currently using the RG35AXC, but it would be a difference of (32-5.4=26.6) almost 27 pounds. And as I mentioned in my post, if you need more than 60-90 minutes to be able to find a place to land in the event of an alternator failure, then the ETX900-TSO battery would NOT be a good choice for you and you should absolutely use a higher capacity battery. Again, I want to reiterate, it is very important as a pilot of know exactly how much energy you need in the event of an alternator failure, so you know how much time you have to land. This is why you must have your battery checked annually for its capacity as time will decrease the name plated Ah. If you need 10 amps an hour, then you know that with the EarthX battery, you have 1.5 hours to land. If you had the RG35AXC, you would have 3.5 hours to land. Me personally......if my Mooney has an alternator failure or any type of component or part failures in flight, I am looking for the nearest airport to land, not what is the farthest one I can get to.

The big mistake was apparently doing stalls at only approx 2500’ agl. The minimum safe altitude for doing Mooney stalls is 5000’ agl - which is what we use at MAPA PPP’s. Falling leafs and any stalls shouldn’t be feared. A recent J model private student got very good at doing the falling leaf - so much so when he was practicing for the practical exam stalls he kept going into the falling leaf and i had to talk him out of it. But by pushing on the yoke aggressively till you feel light in the seat on any stall gets it’s flying again right away - just avoid a secondary stall by trying to aggressively to minimize altitude loss. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everything. To the paint job itself, look for runs, overspray, and forgotten masking tape. Then, do the most meticulous preflight that you have ever done. Be sure that everything that was or could have been removed in the process is securely reattached and look for missing screws or screws that aren’t fully tightened. Be sure that your pitot and static ports aren’t blocked. Check the operation of all control surfaces, the condition of door seals, etc. When I had my airplane painted, the overhead vent leaked and the carpet in the baggage compartment was soaked in water and paint stripper. They also did some light corrosion removal in the wings and destroyed the PC servo boots.

Yes @AH-1 Cobra Pilot can help you out with both Klixon and ETA versions.

I have about 2,000 hours in my 231, am working on my second engine, and have flown quite a few trips into and over the western mountains. I also fly for Angel Flight often so am used to managing loads that might seem excessive for the plane, including, once, a wheelchair. I will go through your questions here and give you my perspective for what it is worth. The LB is more desirable. The GB was known for high engine temps. That can be a problem even for the LB under the wrong conditions. As a practical matter, if you want engine life, the GB would limit you to the mid teens. I would want the Merlyn and the intercooler, both of which I have. The absence of the Merlyn limits you to a Critical Altitude of around 15k, where the Merlyn lets you fly well into the flight levels. Without the intercooler, the Compressor Discharge Temp redline is 280 and as a practical matter you will see that in the summer at somewhere between 15 and 17k in the GB, but if you have the LB and intercooler the Induction Air Temp will always be under the 280 limit. The GB engine will also run generally hotter. I don’t know if the 231 is subject to that SB for roll cage corrosion, but I can tell you what to look out for. There was an insulation used back in the day that was textured like wool. It would be cut to fit between the cage bars and the edges would rest on the cage bars. That insulation would absorb moisture and the constant contact with the cage bars would cause corrosion. During a pre-buy it would be worth it to have the side panels come off and inspect for that type of insulation and for corrosion. With the turbo I have not encountered any high DA airport that the aircraft cannot handle easily, including Leadville in the summer. Most western airports have longer runways than what we generally have here in the Midwest. In practical fact, runout is the only thing that changes, and the longer runways take care of that. You do need to stay aware of climb rates though. Many of the western airports have departures where there is a VOR north or south of the airport. You fly to the VOR and if need be you can circle the VOR to climb to cross the rocks. It might seem in theory that you could climb on a direct course over the rocks, but if you try that on the wrong day with strong western winds aloft you will be at the rocks faster than you anticipated. Having tried it the wrong way a couple of times early on, I now use the departures every time. You don’t ever want to fly at a cruise speed with a 12 in it for fuel flow. That may be what the POH says, but it is the dead wrong place to operate the engine. You have two cruise choices, Lean of Peak or Rich of Peak. Either way you want to be far enough away from peak EGT to be easy on the engine. I fly regularly at 11.1 GPH/2450 RPMs/34” MP, that’s LOP and will give you great speeds up to somewhere around 12-16k in the summer. If you try to go higher you will find that the TIT becomes unmanageable. To fly LOP however, the engine must be set up to do it and you may need GAMInjectors. The other way is ROP, which would be around 29.7 MP/2450RPMs/13.3-14.5 GPH. ROP or LOP you want to keep the CHTs at or under 380 as much as possible. When you are flying ROP, if the temps start creeping up, you just add more fuel to lower them. You need to be at least 125 degrees rich of peak EGT. You can fly ROP anytime you want to, whether your engine will fly LOP or not, and ROP is particularly useful when you want to go over the 12-16k area where TIT becomes a challenge if you are LOP. Either way, you will see 160 at around 10-12k and 170 in the mid to higher teens. If you fly locally you can leave out fuel to create more payload. I do this regularly for Angel Flights. However, I can’t remember ever having flown with less than 50 gallons to start a flight (max in the normal tanks is 75.6). I have CiES senders and a JPI930, so my fuel readout is about as accurate as you can get. Even so, I don’t consider it good enough to fly a tank under 10 gallons and I never start with less than 50. If you are going to fly a trip where fuel is an issue you really need to supervise the fueling or do it yourself. The plane has anti-siphon flappers in the neck and it is pretty easy for a line kid to be fooled into thinking that the tank is full when there is fuel on top of the flapper but a big hole underneath. As others have said, it is a reach to expect 1,000 lbs., although there are some 231’s with that UL, Mine is 980. I have been able to manage some pretty big loads by leaving out fuel, including carrying a 295 pound passenger, his wife and 50 lbs of baggage. For Angel Flights, which are generally not over 2 hours, I can fly with 50 gallons, myself (200 these days), and about 450 lbs. The leg room is not great in back, but if you put a smaller passenger in the copilot seat and roll the seat forward, the legroom in the seat behind is not bad. I have managed a collapsible wheelchair plus two passengers and baggage. I have also flown several hundred pounds of medical cargo. Unfortunately, people are getting bigger these days and the 450 lb loads are pretty common. I wouldn’t say there are “gotchas” for the TSIO360LB, it is a pretty nice engine. There are weaknesses. You are limited to one 12V battery and one alternator, and the alternator is direct drive. The clutch in the drive is a weakness and if that goes, the house battery does not last long. If you are going to fly anywhere near IMC conditions over the mountains you need much redundancy for your AI. I have dual redundant GI275’s plus one standard AI operated by the vacuum pump so if I lose all electrical I still have an AI. If you are over the top and over mountains you won’t necessarily find a place to land for awhile. I have had the pleasure of losing the alternator and flying with the Master off (completely dark panel). You want to convert all the lights to LED if they are not already, the old incandescent lights are way too much load on the 231s electrical system. The engine can run hotter than later models, but I have found that with proper fuel management (staying out of the 12s) it is very durable. I flew my first engine to nearly 2400 hours, which is 600 over TBO.

It should be noted that all of your electronics have circuit boards to protect them and make sure they operate correctly, from your TV, cell phone, Laptop, to your glass panel of instruments. This is not a new or novel concept. Part of the features of the BMS in the battery is it can alert you to an issue that is outside of normal so you can investigate and mitigate a potential issue before it even happens. A lead acid battery can not do that. The more knowledge you have about your aircraft, the more reliable your systems and you increase your safety. We are all for that.

I received the following today from Frank Crawford at Mooney. This should be sufficient to support the swap. Go Mooney! 1. Original 610161 LH Outboard is now 610243-003 (same as the M20J) 2. Original 610160 RH Outboard is now 610243-001 (same as the M20J) 3. Original 610168-001 both inboard is now 610242-001 (same as the M20J)

I did an M20F and it worked very nicely, improving the rate of climb and the cruise speed just as Powerflow claimed it would. Maintenance has been minimal, using nickel anti-seize on the slip joints is the key.