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A hangar with a home built in would kick A.. Definitely gets over to the if I won the Lotto thread

I feel like this question is more about personal finance. From the avionics perspective, I have the GTN 750/2 panel Aspen/Garmin adsb/wx/traffic setup in my Bonanza and its awesome. Clear upgrade in terms of safety and workload/stress reduction. That being said, I paid cash. If something unexpected happens to my financial situation, I'll sell the plane at a significant loss and somebody else will get a really, really good deal. I would only borrow money for airplane refurbishment if I was using the plane for business and could correspondingly write off my flying expenses against my employment income. good luck Tim

Riley is where Vic was... Here are my thoughts on the stuff you mentioned: The Avionics guy quoted me $16000 from the hip for a 430W and KT-74. I think that is a bit high. I see 430Ws showing up for around $7k from people upgrading to GTNs. With the KT-74 street prices around $2,600, I agree $14k is much closer to the right installed price. I agree with the others. The 430s are nice, but the GTN 650 is what you want. I can go with a GNC255A and the Stratus ESG later. The 255A would be about $6000 installed and the ESG about $4200. My plane was VOR only until I upgraded to the GTN. I would not go non-GPS knowing what I know now. Since I would be taking a loan for all this, what should I reasonably expect on cost for an Aspen Pro retrofit? I am non-autopilot, so I was thinking around $13000. Would safe to assume? I think if you shop around you may be able to get one installed for $11k - $12k. If Riley is tight for panel space, the Aspen will free up the VSI spot for you. If you want to compare notes on upgrade costs, let me know. I did my upgrades in the Fall of 2012, but it should help show reasonable install costs. I did get a number of different quotes from shops around me. I know our planes are pretty close to the same age. As you probably know, I did the big jump with the avionics. Never regretted the decision. My situation was a bit different. I have owned my F since 1991 and have been steadily saving for an avionics reserve for years. So, other than a shaky hand as I was writing the check for the avionics bill, I have been enjoying the heck out of the avionics and the fact Vic is much more capable.

I agree with Gus. I have a 430W, but I wouldn't pay to install one at this point. If you're spending that much, go with a GTN650.

first i want to say this . it really is not about the time you fly. it is only about the fact that you can fly. You are happier because you own an airplane . you walk with a different walk because you know you can soar with the eagles in your own plane. in retrospect the times you are faced with a major repair or the plane is in the shop for months and you are trying to get it sorted out . these will become great pleasures to you, because you have overcome them . Only the few , owners, can relate , we are a special breed, we are above the groundlings, because we have decided to undertake this. Not because it is easy ,but because it is hard ( some Kennedy speech) . An hour flying your own plane , what can compare to that....grilling on saturday ?... yes we do that too, while we talk about airplanes! owning an aircraft complete us (some movie) actual hours really doesn't matter carl

There is absolutely a break-in requirement for a new or overhauled prop. It is called picking up your first stone chip. [emoji36] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Eric, That's why I you need to buy a hangar house at Alpine Air Park. You can look into your hangar right from the living room and kitchen ;-) I'm too short on funds for a second house (aka wife wants to reproduce, I wish Scott was still around to explain to her that there is no need for any more liberals), but if you get one, I'll come over and visit.

Yes, I think the "from the hip" estimate may be on the high side. The 430 is a great nav/com, but it is getting old. Since no one but Garmin can maintain them, if Garmin decides to stop supporting them, or makes supporting them too pricey you (and a lot of us) are in a pickle when it stops working. Nothing lasts forever, so why start with something old? I hate to take on debt for a hobby, so consider doing it in "little bites", but pay as you go.

I love this site and all the guys/gals on here! I went back a really ran hard numbers. I realized that I don't need to carry as much fuel as I have been. Now that I have had her for a year, I feel much more comfortable "fueling for the trip" rather than giving a large reserve. Given that, and the fact that I really don't like high-wing airplanes, nothing really looks as cool as a Mooney, and the price premium to move to a "heavy hauler" is pretty steep; it's not worth it. Maybe trade for a turbo later on though.

Fixed costs are fixed--annual, insurance, hangar, pitot static checks, etc., do not vary with use and are simply the cost of ownership. Operating costs are the ones I consider: fuel, oil, tires, battery, GPS updates, etc. Things like panel upgrades, radio updates, engine overhaul, interior update, etc., are all one-time expenses that I will worry about when they happen. I bought the plane with a loan, I can overhaul the engine with another one. Fuel = 9 gph long term, ~$40-45/hr; oil = 10-11 qts per 50 hours, or a little over $1/hour. Nose tires seem to last me about five years; I replaced the mains over six years after I bought the plane, and they weren't new then. My Concorde battery is going strong, and is now < $5/month. Garmin data costs what it costs--is it higher for the GTN than for my old GNS? The real secret to acceptance is to not add up everything. Never do all of the math . . .

Like most things Italian Ducati's are beautiful and they have done well on the world superbike circuit but since moving from 2 to 4 strokes I don't think a non 4 cylinder has ever one a championship in Moto GP (the epitome) of the sport. For those that have never seen it even if you have no interest watch a round of Moto GP the purest balance of art engineering athleticism and brute force you will ever see. we will now return you to your regularly scheduled program

I'll snap a picture of my 916 I keep in my sunroom when I get home ;-) 1998, 1800 miles

Since we have digressed to fat jokes, a few years ago a co-worker asked if I could take him up in my Mooney. He was, well, to be nice, a big fat guy. I asked him at the airport how much he weighed. He went on to tell me that he had a talking scale at home and every time he got on it, it would repeat over and over again "one at a time please". Hoping he was joking, I told him he really needed to let me know how much he weighed. He went on to say that every scale he bought would either do a loud buzzing sound as the dial departed it's shaft or that the metal would compress as he got on it wedging the dial between the compressed mechanism. Not to discourage him, I said lets see how comfortable you are in the plane. As we were walking towards my Mooney, I could hear my poor Mooney start to mumble "no, no, not me!" Just before I got on the wing, I explained to him how not to step on the flap and to stay on the "black part". I then proceeded to get in my plane. The first sensation I had when he got on the wing was this feeling as if the main spar was bending. The second sensation came a second later as a watched a jet of blue avgas shoot from my right wing vent. As he started to enter the plane, I realized that not only was he was blocking out light, but my breathing became difficult as his fat wedge was now firmly planted in the opening. Fortunately, I was able to open the vent window before he got in and started to overcome this suffocating feeling I was now getting. With the co-pilot seat all the way back and me pushing the yoke forward hard as if I had a runaway trim, he managed to wedge himself in. I was instantly surprised and amazed that I no longer could see any part of the seat he was on. But I did indeed hear the groans of the seat as it was coming apart. So there I sat, breathing through the side vent window, timing my breathing to coincide with his out of fear of cracking a rib by being off cycle and realizing that I indeed had invited Jabba the Hutt to come fly with me. Fortunately for me, old Jabba realized it just wasn't going to happen. It might have been the yoke pressing firmly into his fat fold, but I think the real reason was that he realized that about a third of him was still outside of the plane. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Started to leak a week ago and I ended up replacing with a Weldon. Needs an OH on the seals but otherwise works fine. $100 plus shipping. PM me if interested.

Went up to Mammoth this weekend to catch the last bit of snow of this season and grabbed a little video on our way out. I might be a little weird though, cause I'm far more entertained by the shadow after takeoff than the mountains.

I have a relay that piper used for avionics and landing lights. I'll look for a picture. But why not use the opportunity to replace the LL with a low current LED and max pulse switch. That gives you a solid paper trail for removing the relay all together? Don

I so often complain so here is a good news story. My transponder started working great. Lucky me. Mode C for me no ADSB.

Ok. What it finally came down to is, "nice to have" and, "need to have." The MAC 1700's were sent off to the avionics shop and only one was serviceable. Or at least worth servicing. After consideration, the 430W seems like a lot of money for a used piece of equipment. As much as I would like to be able to shoot GPS approaches, the reality is, it is not really necessary right now. The GNC255A is really attractive, but it's $3800+$3000 installation. $6800 for only one nav/comm. As I said earlier, a loan was not out of the realm of possibilities, but the longer I looked at it, the less palatable it became. What I really need is a NAV/COMM to do ILS stuff and VOR approaches. Any nav/comm other than a KX170(5)b would require major rewiring of the plane. Enter something I have not heard of before. The MX170C. After seeing this radio on Spruce, I called the manufacturer and had a long talk with Vic. Turns out there are thousands out there flying and what seem to be few problems. It is a direct, slip-in replacement for the 170b, but a brand-new unit with a warranty. They are not fancy. But good Tx power and seeming good reliability. I am aware of the fact they are only serviced at the manufacturer. The history of the manufacturer is another story, and not a bad one. They seem to sell fast on eBay for almost the retail price of $2600. I don't need a IFR WGPS right now and I don't need ADS-b at the moment. I need good, solid nav/comms. I ordered two of them. $2400ea no tax or shipping. I'll slip them in when they get here and let you all know the result! I just couldn't bring myself to take a loan for what amounts to basically a toy. Hopefully these radios will bring years of good service. I learned some very interesting stuff about ADS-b. I will fill you in later! Cheers!

OK all you Mooney Pilots; There will be another Mooney Caravan Formation Flying Clinic at KHYI (San Marcos, TX) on Friday, June 12th to Sunday, June 14th. REGISTRATION WILL CLOSE ON JUNE 1st. This allows us to get the required Safety Pilots available and plan the designated practice areas and routes. The main purpose of the Clinic is to train pilots to be able to safely fly in the Mooney Caravan to Oshkosh this July or in the future. The Tentative Schedule will be posted shortly. Location: KHYI (San Marcos, TX) on 6/12/15 to 6/14/15 FBOs: Redbird Skyport at KHYI: (512) 878-6670 Contact: Bucko Strehlow 8 Corby Lane San Antonio, TX 78218 (210) 887-0144 bucko.strehlow@gmail.com Make your plans TODAY! Let me know you're coming. Tailwinds and High Speed; Bucko M20-E

John Green in Mississippi, he really enjoys his Aerostar.

Rookie, As others have stated, a Mooney (particularly the "J" or "201") is the most efficient 4 place production aircraft flying. Also, as others have stated, not just in aviation but in all things, you have to know your objective before you can devise a plan. 1. If your objective is to get the three of you a reasonable distance as efficiently as possible in a reasonable amount of time, I'd recomment the "J". 150 knots cruise, 17 NM/gallon, pretty easy to find one with a useful load of 950 lbs or so which with your weights and 120 pounds of bags will allow you to fly for about 4.5 hours and 650 to 700 NM and still land with over an hour of fuel on board. My wife and I prefer to keep our flights to about 3 hours or less. 2. If you want more speed, have enough money, don't care about being the most efficient, and don't mind sucking oxygen from a hose; consider a "K" aka "252" or one of the newer models. At higher altitudes you will get closer to 200 knot speeds. Also lets you get above a lot of the weather. It would also come in handy in Colorado. 3. If you want the speed, have more money, and don't want to suck oxygen, get something like a Cessna P210. 4. If you have even more money, are willing to get all the training, you could get a Cessna 340A. 5. Even more money, a turboprop or small business jet... 6. Even more money.... Best of luck, Bob

Luckily for all of us they are not flimsy cork gaskets like some airplanes use. I guess since I am my own A&P/IA, I'll keep myself safe, and I replace every gasket, o-ring, and filter required on schedule. You found a mechanic you like and trust, and I won't fault that.

Wesley, I replaced all of the old gauges in my A model with EI units and I'm very pleased with them. Except for the ammeter - I went with a Mitchell. The FP-5L - I couldn't imagine an airplane without one! It will also talk to your KLN90B, if you hook it up (2 wires) and give you fuel requirements, etc. under "OTHER" pages. My old oil pressure gauge was reading high compared to the EI. The 2.25" tach & MP let me install more radios, so that's why I went with them. Look at my "gallery" for photos. Joe Philips N8335E

Ok, it's official, just signed Purchase Agreement this morning on a 201. Fingers crossed all goes well with PPI. Will keep you all updated. Thanks for the recommendations! ~MJP

I would look at a J or an F if I were you.

The world "needs" neither Conservatives nor Liberals. A nice future Mooney Driver, preferably a female...now THAT is something the word needs more of.

+1 on Dawley. They are a first class operation and are vary reasonable.

Dallas I continue to be amazed at and by Clearance he is always very helpful and knowledgable. I hope you get to meet him this year at Oshkosh. Way cool video, just got 3 knock off GoPros mounted in my Rocket but have zero experience in the cool editing and adding music that you all do. Going to have to get someone to educate me on how to do all that. Fly safe, by the way we are planing on a whirl wind CA trip in September. Fly the Golden Gate Bridge, Shelter Cove, Half Moon Bay finishing off with a couple days on Catilina Island then returning home. Expecting our 2 other Texas Wing Mooney & maybe one C to join us in addition to my good friend from Lincoln. By the way I met and had a great time at diner swapping stories with the guy that builds shocks for crazy off-road and airplanes that you also know a couple ago in SnF. He is good friends with my good friend out of Lincoln where he has his shop. Take care

The 430w approvals can be more difficult than the 530ws. Looks for some used stuff from someone who has recently bit the 750 round! What TXP did you say you have? The new king TXP with Adsb should be a nice solution. I found a used 330s and plan on doing the ES mod to get my ADSb. Sounds like your back in the saddle and keeping the bird. Nice choice! I'd spend the least amount and try to dodge the loan. However, The 650 is a nice unit. Most of the bugs are now gone. A 650 and a simple Aspen solution should keep the "other airplane thoughts" at bay for a long time!! Good luck!! -Matt

Good question... you should probably look in the parts manual and see if the number is different than the J or K... I suspect it is. It wouldn't surprise me if these gauges have a max indication that is less than the total capacity in the tank since they're down near the root. The panel instruments rely on 2 sending units...one of which is outboard a bit to account for the dihedral effect.

Testing the ability to move the selector valve to both locations should be helpful. Especially if you intend to use the other tank during the flight...doing it pre-taxi, seems to be the best available option... Some valves have a tendency to bind more as they age. Best regards, -a-

If you were a real CB, you would have fixed the old nylon thingamajig.... $90?

Don't be a rookie. Buy a 201, join the club and be happy.

Sure they weren't tatooed in another three letter word that starts with a?

He probably needed to do that so he would have the numbers handy when he went to the DMV

103.25 Since Jan 1 2015 73.25 IFR flight plans Balance in VFR & Formation Flying! In addition to the above I have 14.4 hr as IFR Currency Safety Pilot. Have a trip to CA, MT and Oshkosh still to go so might break 200 total this year. When you live in El Paso NOTHING is close! I calculate assuming 160kts average GS about 16520 statue miles... 3400 miles alone week before last RT SnF and back. 1250 miles RT Yuma Formation Clinic 1000 miles RT Kerrville Formation Clinic 800 miles multiple trips to Phoenix 1200 miles multiple trips to Granbury 850 miles multiple trips to Amarillo This is making me realize how much $$$ I spend on flying I think I will quit now!!!! Please dont show this to my wife... the one who manages the $ or should I say now the was the $$$$$ Fly safe all!

Sad fact.... Based on all the fixed costs associated with aircraft ownership, I'm not sure I could fly enough hours to bring those costs into the category of "reasonable". 100 hours/year is what I base my calculations on, but I rarely fly that much. To make matters worse, I have two airplanes. This is a depressing subject for me. Happily, my wife has a horse, so that's like "Carte Blanche" for extravagance....

Massimo Tamburini was an artist. Ducati 916 has to be the finest looking sports motorcycle ever built. And judging on the number of wins, the best riding bike as well. It had less power than all the 4 bangers, but the smooth power delivery of the V-Twin made it so amazingly predictable out of a corner. I have probably 60,000 miles on a 916. Owned 3 of them. What a machine. Still own one. Never ride it anymore, though. Eyeing an older BMW R but probably not this summer.

Easiest solution, take less fuel and luggage! Definitely not 182RG - not much of an upgrade. Bonaza, Lance, Saratoga, RV-10, and all twins all too expensive. The best fit I can think of is Cessna 210N. But to be honest, if you need full tank to get to your destination, probably easier and cheaper to fly commercial. Save your Mooney for short family trip.

Since you're nearly done and about to leave Weep No More let me give you a "stupid pilot trick" I pioneered after departing from Paul's place. I departed in poor weather, flew about an hour over a thick layer and then switched tanks. When I did so the engine began to stumble badly so I immediately switched back to the original tank while worrying about what had gone wrong. Naturally, I assumed the worst, which was that some free floating sealant had clogged the outlet inside the tank (it's a tube with a small screen on it), meaning I would have to return to Weep No More and have Paul fix it. Well, fortunately I continued on course until I had about an hour of fuel left in the original tank, landed and checked things out on the ground. I couldn't duplicate the problem there, which seemed mysterious. I took off again but, wondering if some of that sealant might ultimately find its way to the fuel spider and cause a real problem, was uneasy for the next several hours. So what was it? My guess is that, naturally, Paul empties the tanks to do the work, including the fuel lines. Almost certainly the engine stumble was due to the air bubble working its way through the lines on the second tank. It probably would have cleared up in seconds but I was so quick in switching tanks that I didn't give it a chance. I sure didn't want to make an IFR approach with a dead engine. And the whole time I was cursing Paul for what I figured was his sloppiness. The lesson? Be sure to run both tanks on the ground before take off.

Nice looking plane!

I addition to the very standard suggestions to solve the growing family problem of Bonanza, Saratoga, 210 and various twins, I'd like to add the RV-10. This gets you out from under the government squeeze and allows you to have the very latest avionics, do whatever mods you see fit, work on it yourself and save a load of money. If I ever leave the Mooney fold, it will be for an experimental.

It's no different in a 757. Light with 2 pilots only and gas for 300 miles? Out of 12,000' from Sea Level, 2 mins 56 seconds from throttles fwd. With 188 bodies and fuel for 5 hrs? You wish. And that's with 80,000 lbs of thrust.

Princess Leia in Jabba's bondage outit would be a much better flying partner...Me thinks.

What are the chances that a pilot that flies over gross with a passenger in the baggage compartment does a thorough pre-flight to include sumping the tanks and the main strainer....? Hmmmmmm....I wonder. Not

If it stops dripping, you are out of oil...

I'm in favor of "the set for 1100 before shut down" method. I find this woks for up to about an hour after shut down in the summer time und up to 30 mins in the winter. I am not a fan of the "flood and clear it" method. I've seen several airplanes catch fire that way. Usually it's no big deal if the plane starts. If it doesn't, it can be trouble. We had a Stearman on the field suffer paint damage from fire that resulted from a flooded start. Hot start difficulties are born out of the location of the injector lines. You can here the fuel boiling out of them if you stand next to cowl after shutdown. That gas is boiling right out of the injector and into the intake manifold. The engine for all intents and purposes has pre-primed itself. On the rare occasions the "set it at 1100 and do nothing else" method fails, I find a standard start procedure will get the job done.

Start by shutting down the engine while idling smoothly at 1100 RPM. When ready to restart, don't move anything, but position your hand on the mixture knob. Press the starter and be prepared to advance the mixture smoothly (and quickly) when the engine catches, which in my case is usually in about two blades. Works almost every time, and if not, go to flooded start procedure. Good luck! Mike

We got a plant tour last year, saw some new machines still crated, the plane that was headed for Oshkosh almost finished with a few more coming out of mothballs... I'm thinking this year's tour is going to be really fun!

Nothing Saturday? Any plant tour opportunities?