ADS-B out configuration options Mode S with ES

[OR75]

http://www.airventure.org/news/2013/130731_transponder-tech-getting-to-2020.html

good to see more options coming for ADS-B out compliance.

a very pleasant surprise for me is the Bendix King KT-74 option. not only lower priced than other Mode S with ES but also a slide in replacement for the KT-76 will make it very attractive for KT-76 equipped aircrafts and there are lots of them !!

which brings up the following question: why does Garmin wants us to rewire when slide in replacement can be an option ?

[Piloto]

Eventhough the KT-74 is  a slide-in replacement you will still need to wire the tray back connector to a WAAS GPS. This will allow the transponder to transmit out your position. Current WAAS approved GPS sensors are the Garmin panel mounted navigators such as the G430W. So if you don't have a WAAS navigator be ready to spend another $10K+ for one.

 

José 

[OR75]

Yes, but there is a difference between pulling one or two wires (ARINC or RS 232) from the back of an existing GPS waas and redoing a hole harness ( audio, autopilot, dme, ...) +reriveting new trays.

Also, keep in mind that you do not need a PANEL GPS waas for compliance. You need a GPS waas source on board. Freeflight , navworx have standalone systems. I am sure some more will follow.

[bnicolette]

I imagine that there will be several more options in the not so distant future and also hoping with that comes better pricing.  I don't have an IFR GPS in my airplane at the moment but I do have 2 WAAS GPS's. (Stratus 2 & SkyguardTWX)  I continue to be impressed with the SkyguardTWX ADS-B out box.  It was a very small price to pay (IMO) to get the traffic picture and will hold me over till all these other options come to market.  

[aviatoreb]

http://www.airventure.org/news/2013/130731_transponder-tech-getting-to-2020.html

good to see more options coming for ADS-B out compliance.

a very pleasant surprise for me is the Bendix King KT-74 option. not only lower priced than other Mode S with ES but also a slide in replacement for the KT-76 will make it very attractive for KT-76 equipped aircrafts and there are lots of them !!

which brings up the following question: why does Garmin wants us to rewire when slide in replacement can be an option ?

 

Very nice....this is what I was hoping for - a slide in for my current KT-76, and I have the waas to match .  At my last IFR cert the shop went to bat for me and kept my KT76 rolling along but they warned me it was touch and go and I should be thinking about a new transponder for next time  - in 18 months.  I think this slide in replacement will be just what the doctor ordered.

[Piloto]

Be cautious, if the manufacturer is not on this list  

 

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

 

it is not a TSOd WAAS GPS, thus cannot be used. SkyGuard, Stratus and Navworx have no FAA approvals. 

 

José

[chrisk]

The KT74 looks nice.   However I recently upgraded my transponder and went with a Trig TT31 connected to a GTN650.  Probably not yet legal for the mandate, but I'll take the risk that Trig eventually gets the TT31 approved with the GTN series.  If not, I'll add the FreeFlight WAAS

 

 

See

http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/implementation/programs/adsb/media/Avionics_status_&_upgrades_03Jul13.pdf

[Fly By Night]

I am very close to pulling the trigger on an ADSB upgrade on our J. It has a G-530, non WAAS and G-330 without the extended squitter. I have pretty much decided, after exploring the various ADSB in/out options to proceed with a WAAS upgrade to the 530 and a GDL-88. My only question, which I can't seem to find an answer for is, what is this "dual band traffic" that is advertised in the Stratus literature, I thought that I understood the basic concepts of ADSB and that for aircraft that stay below FL 180 and in the US you only need 978 MHz. As I understand from reading the Garmin info, if I were to go the lowest cost Garmin route with the extended squitter and G-530 WAAS upgrade, I would get no ADSB in information. In other words, how would one receive 1090MHz ADSB traffic?

[Marauder]

The GDL-88 is dual band from what I read. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/digital/in-the-air/avionics-safety/weather-solutions/gdl-88-series/prod63471.html

[OR75]

Be cautious, if the manufacturer is not on this list

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

it is not a TSOd WAAS GPS, thus cannot be used. SkyGuard, Stratus and Navworx have no FAA approvals.

José

Understood.

The freeflight system is TSOed

The Navworx is in progress

If i had to upgrade today, I would waas upgrade my 430 and add the kt74

Would I like to upgrade to a GTN 650 ? Of course ! But the $$$ difference buys me a lot of fuel

[chrisk]

I'm no expert here, but my understanding is there are two frequencies in use 1090 MHz and 978 MHz.   If above 18,000 then you need 1090 MHz.  Below 18,000 then 1090 or 978.   If you have an ADS-B receiver that only gets one frequency, then you are missing some traffic.  --And then there is the issue with waking up ADS-B transmitters.   I assume if a 1090 aircraft wakes up a transmitter, then it only transmits on 1090.

[Fly By Night]

Thanks Marauder, you have answered my question.

[Piloto]

I am very close to pulling the trigger on an ADSB upgrade on our J. It has a G-530, non WAAS and G-330 without the extended squitter. I have pretty much decided, after exploring the various ADSB in/out options to proceed with a WAAS upgrade to the 530 and a GDL-88. My only question, which I can't seem to find an answer for is, what is this "dual band traffic" that is advertised in the Stratus literature, I thought that I understood the basic concepts of ADSB and that for aircraft that stay below FL 180 and in the US you only need 978 MHz. As I understand from reading the Garmin info, if I were to go the lowest cost Garmin route with the extended squitter and G-530 WAAS upgrade, I would get no ADSB in information. In other words, how would one receive 1090MHz ADSB traffic?

Your best overall option is to upgrade your 530 to WAAS and the GDL-88. With this combination you will get LPV GPS approach capability, weather and traffic on the G530W. Beware that eventhough the GDL-88 can detect ADS-B traffic directly on 1090MHz such is not the case for Mode C only traffic. You will need to be in range of a ground UAT station to detect Mode C traffic. This limits the detection of Mode C traffic to within the USA. The only traffic it will show outside the US is ADS-B out equipped traffic.

 

José 

[rbridges]

I'm in the group that has a KT-76 and a 430W.  If I get the KT-74, what else is left to do to be 2020 compliant?  I've read a lot of info, but I'm still not 100% clear.

[Jerry 5TJ]

I'm in the group that has a KT-76 and a 430W.  If I get the KT-74, what else is left to do to be 2020 compliant?  I've read a lot of info, but I'm still not 100% clear.

If you upgrade the transponder to the KT-74 (nice looking box) you will have Mode S ES and will comply with the 2020 mandate for USA.   You will see ADS-B traffic on the 430W, but you won't get ADS-B weather as weather data are only supplied over the UAT. (EDITED - you must have mode S ES above FL180)

[OR75]

I'm in the group that has a KT-76 and a 430W. If I get the KT-74, what else is left to do to be 2020 compliant? I've read a lot of info, but I'm still not 100% clear.

i have not seen the KT-74 install manual. however, you can expect that the shop will need to pull 1 or 2 wires from the back of the GNS 430w to the back of the KT74, configure your kt-74 ( enter your N number, mode S number ), and fill papers

[aviatoreb]

If you upgrade the transponder to the KT-74 (nice looking box) you will have Mode S ES and will comply with the 2020 mandate for USA below FL180. You will see ADS-B traffic on the 430W, but you won't get ADS-B weather as weather data are only supplied over the UAT.

 

What further hardware then would be needed to also comply above 18k? 

[Piloto]

If you upgrade the transponder to the KT-74 (nice looking box) you will have Mode S ES and will comply with the 2020 mandate for USA below FL180. You will see ADS-B traffic on the 430W, but you won't get ADS-B weather as weather data are only supplied over the UAT.

 

With the KT-74 you wil be in compliance for traffic above FL 180 on 1090MHz. Traffic with no 1090MHz ES transponders but with 978MHz are limited up to FL 180. Traffic with Mode C only transponders are limited up to FL 100. The KT-74 has no traffic detection capability thus no display of traffic on the G430W.

 

José

[Marauder]

If you upgrade the transponder to the KT-74 (nice looking box) you will have Mode S ES and will comply with the 2020 mandate for USA below FL180. You will see ADS-B traffic on the 430W, but you won't get ADS-B weather as weather data are only supplied over the UAT. What further hardware then would be needed to also comply above 18k?

Eric -- as was mentioned, the "squitter" portion for 1090 will make you compliant in Class A. What were you doing to take advantage of the "in" portion? With you broadcasting out, any of the portable stuff with their antenna for "in" will get you weather and traffic (provided they are dual band as well). This is one of the areas I have been debating. Do I upgrade the transponder and use a portable solution until Aspen releases their ADSB stuff or do I wait until it is released and buy their in/out solution. Another concern with the transponder approach is the amount of information that will now be broadcasted about you. The conspiracists believe this is a way to begin levying user fees. Do you know if this new unit will allow you to broadcast C only?

[Jerry 5TJ]

What further hardware then would be needed to also comply above 18k? 

You're right, I cited the requirement backwards, my error.  You do need Mode S to comply above 18,000. 

 

In my "C" I plan to use a GDL-88 (or similar) with the 530W plus Mode C but I won't be able to fly above 18,000 after 2020.  Of course, the "C" has not frequently been in the FL since it left Kerrville in 1965.   If I wanted to fly to Canada, then I'd need Mode S, too.  

[rbridges]

You're right, I cited the requirement backwards, my error.  You do need Mode S to comply above 18,000. 

 

In my "C" I plan to use a GDL-88 (or similar) with the 530W plus Mode C but I won't be able to fly above 18,000 after 2020.  Of course, the "C" has not frequently been in the FL since it left Kerrville in 1965.   If I wanted to fly to Canada, then I'd need Mode S, too.  

 

It looks like the GDL-88 option would also give weather vs. the KT-74, so wouldn't it be better for me to go this route, also?  Seriously, when is my C model going to fly higher than 18,000 ft.  Or would it make sense to upgrade my transponder (KT-76) and go with the KT-74?

[aviatoreb]

Eric -- as was mentioned, the "squitter" portion for 1090 will make you compliant in Class A. What were you doing to take advantage of the "in" portion? With you broadcasting out, any of the portable stuff with their antenna for "in" will get you weather and traffic (provided they are dual band as well). This is one of the areas I have been debating. Do I upgrade the transponder and use a portable solution until Aspen releases their ADSB stuff or do I wait until it is released and buy their in/out solution. Another concern with the transponder approach is the amount of information that will now be broadcasted about you. The conspiracists believe this is a way to begin levying user fees. Do you know if this new unit will allow you to broadcast C only?

 

Hi Marauder,

 

I do not currently have an ADS-B in solution - I have been unable to decide what to do since my decision was coupled to what I might want to do for an ADS-B out.  The sky radar sounds attractive for price.  I have been considering the GTX330-ES, but that would be very expensive considering the greater purchase price plus from-scratch avionics install cost.  the KT-74 sounds wonderful for its lower purchase price and very low avionics install cost.  I bet less than half the cost of a GTX330-ES in the end.

 

Then I suppose I would get a sports stratus-2 (or 3 or 4 or whatever is current when I get the transponder) since I am a foreflight devotee.

 

So to summarize - with a KT-74, is it true then that I would be a) 2020 compliant including for >FL18 operations, and as an ADS-B out device, I would be triggering the system to send my (to be purchased) stratus to display all the (transponder anyway) traffic on my ipad?

[Marauder]

Hi Marauder,

 

I do not currently have an ADS-B in solution - I have been unable to decide what to do since my decision was coupled to what I might want to do for an ADS-B out.  The sky radar sounds attractive for price.  I have been considering the GTX330-ES, but that would be very expensive considering the greater purchase price plus from-scratch avionics install cost.  the KT-74 sounds wonderful for its lower purchase price and very low avionics install cost.  I bet less than half the cost of a GTX330-ES in the end.

 

Then I suppose I would get a sports stratus-2 (or 3 or 4 or whatever is current when I get the transponder) since I am a foreflight devotee.

 

So to summarize - with a KT-74, is it true then that I would be a) 2020 compliant including for >FL18 operations, and as an ADS-B out device, I would be triggering the system to send my (to be purchased) stratus to display all the (transponder anyway) traffic on my ipad?

 

Yes, based on what I see for the KT-74, you would be broadcasting 1090 and would be compliant for flight ops above 18k. Your portable solution would then receive "in" which would include weather and traffic. Although you still would not receive primary targets (no transponders).

[Jack Burson]

Note also that BendixKing allows a $300 credit for a working KT76a on the new KT74.. Since I have the KT76A & WAAS 430 along with a recently acquired Clariy SW ADS-B, I'm almost there...

[Marauder]

Note also that BendixKing allows a $300 credit for a working KT76a on the new KT74.. Since I have the KT76A & WAAS 430 along with a recently acquired Clariy SW ADS-B, I'm almost there...

I've got to go dumpster diving to find mine...