Speed Brakes on Vintage Mooneys

[DaV8or]

Anybody have them? Are they worth the money? They seem to me like a very cool and valuable mod.

[Earl]

Can't comment on the mod issue but I have them on my 86 252 and they are very useful indeed.  I fly in and out of the Atlanta area and it is not uncommon for ATC to put me on downwind at 3,000' agl because of traffic.  Pop the speed brakes, drop the gear and I am at pattern altitude in no time and with no increase in airspeed to speak of.  Also helps when I am approaching a waypoint and suddenly ATC wants me 3,000 feet lower when I cross.  Finally very nice when you are asked to "keep up your speed" on final to accomodate faster traffic behind and need to dump some airspeed to get on the ground saving you from the Mooney excess airspeed penalty during landing.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: DaV8or

Anybody have them? Are they worth the money? They seem to me like a very cool and valuable mod.

[carusoam]

My Opinion...

The main payback for the high fuel flow in the climb, is the low FF of a nice gradual high speed descent.  Takes some planning, but with today's GPSs it is not too difficult to execute (at least VFR).  This was challenging for me when I first flew a mooney and again moving to an M20R.

Using the speed brakes intentionally turns altitude and speed into drag (potential and kinetic energy into heat).  I agree with above postings, great for IFR / slam dunk approach or emergency descent.  The long body Moonies use them to minimize the use of slips. (see other posts on slipping long body moonies).

Brakes are the opposite of a speed mod,  It's an anti-speed mod.  They are just another tool in the Mooney collection.

YMMV  (your milage will improve, the less you use your brakes - within reason)

-a-

[RJBrown]

I flew N231NH as a stock 231 for 100 hour. Did not have and did not miss speedbrakes. After she was converted to a 305 Rocket I flew for a few years without them. All the time wishing they were there. Had them installed when she was repainted. LOVE them. Now that I fly a MSE I feel no need to run out and install them. I would like to have them they do add quite a bit of flexability but won't spend the money needed at this point.

 Talk about a slam dunk. Denver center brings you over larks intersection at or above 12,000' and then heads your toward Falcon VOR as if you are landing at KDEN. Not untill they hand me off to approach do I get lower. At that point I am less than 10 mile to the outer marker cassi NDB with 4000' to lose. They do it every time. In the J it is doable caus I know what is coming. In the rocket without speedbrakes I just planned on calling a miss early and setting up properly for the ILS. With speedbrakes the drama was gone.

They are nice for gusty landings, no flaps just speedbrakes. They make a difference in the mountains. Like crossing the top of the ski hill at Steamboat and then heading down. I can see why someone in Tucson has no need. Landing over the flatlands I want all that energy back in the decent and would only pop the brakes in the pattern. In the rocket 45% power was the min setting they want you to use and at 137.5HP I carried more power in the decent than my MSE cruises at now.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: RJBrown

They make a difference in the mountains. Like crossing the top of the ski hill at Steamboat and then heading down. I can see why someone in Tucson has no need.

[KSMooniac]

I don't feel the need to have them on my J.  I'd rather save the money and the useful load.

[Immelman]

I'd rather spend money on mods that make the airplane go faster, as a general rule. In my E, they have never been necessary. I have done flights where I've crossed the sierra and then wanted to land on the other side (6000-7000' descent) and just took the opportunity to sight see for a few minutes at a nice comfortable airspeed and descent rate. I have not yet had ATC give me a slam dunk (IFR).

[Qwalton]

I have them on my plane but I did not have them put on.  I use them a lot when I'm flying ifr and I find them very useful for getting slowed down on approaches.  If the plane didn't have them they'd probably be on my short list to add.  I think they add an immense amount of utility and safety to my plane.  

[DaV8or]

The one and only time I got to ride in a Mooney was when the Arrow I was renting broke down at Auburn, CA and a super generous Mooney pilot based there gave me a ride back to Oakland in his '60s F. He had speed brakes on it and demonstrated their use on the VFR decent into Oakland after crossing the Oakland hills which is usually sort of a chop and drop manuever. I thought they were the coolest mod I'd seen on an piston plane . I am now planing my own Mooney and so wondering about options and real world experience. Thanks for the responses.

[MB_M20F]

I have an F model. Speed brakes have always been on my "nice to have" wish list but it seems I always have other higher priority items on the list. (Like Immelman, I tend to spend money on gaining speed rather than slowing down...) My gear speed is really low (105 KIAS) and it would be nice to have a way to slow down that did not involve the old power-off climbing slip trick... Out here in SoCal, ATC frequently expects me to remain high and fast prior to the approach, and then it can get tricky to descend and slow down in time. So, I would really like to have me some speed brakes. Problem is, like I said, there are so many other things I would like to have...

[Earl]

Quote: KLRDMD

I had them on my Bravo and haven't had them on any of the other six airplane's I've owned. There were only two instances where I found them helpful:

a) When ATC gives you a slam dunk that you weren't expecting and you're in a turbo charged aircraft.

On gusty crosswind landings.

I've found that ATC rarely give me a slam dunk that I wasn't expecting if I'm paying attention.

If you're flying a normally aspirated airplane, I just don't see a huge benefit. Pull the power back to 15" manifold pressure and descend as needed if given a slam dunk. At 15" MP or greater, the engine is still driving the prop so no big deal. Those that believe in the 'old wives tale' of shock cooling may tell you differently but they have no science to back up their beliefs.

If you were expecting the slam dunk you have time beforehand to start slowing the airplane down so when you do descend you can do so efficiently.

I'm currently fling a turbo Mooney without speed brakes and they would be well down the list of potential upgrades for me. YMMV.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: ehscott

I am curious about the use of speed brakes on gusty days.  Can you expand on how you do that as I have never used that technique.  I usually just do a no-flap or half-flap approach depending on the winds, the gusts and the crosswind factor. 

[fantom]

I've had them since day one, and really like them. First they look cool, and second, they come in handly when your three miles out at a 150 kts.

[Earl]

Quote: KLRDMD

I am curious about the use of speed brakes on gusty days.  Can you expand on how you do that as I have never used that technique.  I usually just do a no-flap or half-flap approach depending on the winds, the gusts and the crosswind factor. 

[KLRDMD]

Quote: ehscott

[marktrav]

I've developed a technique that I discovered quite by accident.

If I've been given a slam dunk, or I've been asked to keep my speed up, I just wait until I get to the point where I need to slow down and go downhill, and I roll in full nose up trim, and keep a level attitude by applying progressively more pressure on the yoke to keep from gaining altitude. Granted, if I ever loose control of the yoke, I risk gaining altitude, and I do risk getting a cramp in my arm from the forward yoke pressure, but I can't argue with the results.

I don't know if it's the increase tail plane incidence or what, but I slow down quickly, then I can throw out the gear, then the flaps, and can land in 500 feet.

Mark

[Piper67]

Got the speedbrakes on our 1967 M20F. Flying mostly in the flatlands of Eastern Canada and US, I've only ever had to use them twice. Funny thing was one of those times was going into Freeport, Bahamas (elevation zero, give or take a foot), where the tower kept me at 7000 ft until I was practically in the zone.

My feeling is that any time I pop up the speedbrakes I'm wasting time, money or both. I'd much rather pull the power and pick up speed on a gradual descent and get the advantage back from what I spent on the climb.

But if I lived and flew around the mountains I'd probably end up using them all the time. Our bird was originally based in the Canadian Rockies, and the previous owner had the brakes installed for that very reason.

Cheers,

John Hauber

C-GDEE

[KJATCt]

Quote: marktrav

I've developed a technique that I discovered quite by accident.

If I've been given a slam dunk, or I've been asked to keep my speed up, I just wait until I get to the point where I need to slow down and go downhill, and I roll in full nose up trim, and keep a level attitude by applying progressively more pressure on the yoke to keep from gaining altitude. Granted, if I ever loose control of the yoke, I risk gaining altitude, and I do risk getting a cramp in my arm from the forward yoke pressure, but I can't argue with the results.

I don't know if it's the increase tail plane incidence or what, but I slow down quickly, then I can throw out the gear, then the flaps, and can land in 500 feet.

Mark