Grass Strips

[67M20F]

Wondering about grass strips, anyone do this on a regular basis? I would like to johnson creek in ID, how short of a takeoff can you do in your mooney. I am a pretty low time mooney driver with about 140 hrs in make, 3000 is enough but not sure about 3000 on grass, any suggestions on the best short field proc? I have the 67 F with 200HP, Fly out of 5600 elev, u36. Also i have heard that alot of you run wide open and near max rpm, is this right seems it would work the heak out of the motor.  

[TurboExec]

by wide open and max RPM do you mean ~30" and 2700RPM?  if so that is redline and allowed for continuous operation, so no it won't hurt the engine if it is setup properly.  Now you'll be burning a lot of fuel!

I regularly take my Mooney, same as yours, on grass.  Its a 6000' strip so I don't worry to much about short field ops there but I'm usually off the ground in 1500'.  This is undergross wt.  I know the strip well and knew I didn't need to worry about "pot" holes which would be one of my big concerns about going into an unfamiliar field.

If you are planning on going in and out at gross wt. you should find a local grass strip and get a feel for the difference in performance.  But 3000' should be plenty for you...

[67M20F]

Thanks for the info, 30" I have never seen that in my plane. I usually cut it back to 2400 and 19-21" so i guess i just giving up speed at that huh.

[67M20F]

Oh yea about the pot holes, do you land on aspalt and go look first? It seems to me that a prety small pot hole would make my prop strike, that has been my biggest concern with grass strips, heard of guys mowing the grass with there prop, am i just silly to think this i stupid?

 

[mph5790]

I have not landed my 201J on Grass but bought if from a guy that lived on a private grass strip about 2,800 ft long with power lines on one end and trees on the other.  Elevation was about 700MSL.  He liked low and slow even with the obstacles.

[67M20F]

no inner doors, but that prop isnt a long way from the ground. How do you find out the condition before hand for sure? I guess theres not anyway to know for sure. I think i will try to find some lower elev grass to play on first, the ones i really want to go to are in the ID backcountry, big peaks to play with and that dont bother my as much as making sure i can keep a good enough climb out till i clear them. Any sugestion on a low alt long grass strip some what neer northern UT?

[eaglebkh]

Made it in and out of a 2300' grass strip in AL - 600' elevation, dry field, 1/2 fuel, 1 light passenger (I'm pretty light, too), light wind, 65 degrees. My home base is 3600', and I usually get it down and stopped without much braking before the halfway point. Taking off and climbing out was no issue with 3-blades. I've got ~80 hours in the plane.

You shouldn't have much problem. Just fly over it first to check for rough spots - the rubber pucks aren't really ideal for off-roading. Call someone there at the field and ask how they maintain it and get the current condition of the grass. Do some test landings on pavement and be sure you can get it down and stopped, or at least to a speed where you can make a U-turn, before 80% of the grass runway distance without much braking. Depending on field condition, the inability to do normal braking is almost cancelled out by the way the plane rolls with more resistance on grass.

[67M20F]

but the real question is how much take off performance is lost, wet grass, dry grass? There is what my big concern is i know i can land but the take off is questionable, mainly because my poh is a pos and has no info on take off on grass.

[67M20F]

The strip i would like to go to is 3400ft at an elev 4933. With 9000ft peaks around it.

[eaglebkh]

A tip to minimize take-off roll is to do a U-turn before departing. As you taxi down the runway, just before you get to the end and turn around, go ahead and firewall the throttle and the plane will swing around, already having a decent roll speed.

With 3-blades (which it appears you have in the avatar), climbing out won't be that big of a deal. It never is for me. Just pitch for Vx.

[TurboExec]

sorry I said 30" cause I'm down here at sea level...take off manifold pressure usually is near 29-30" for me.

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: 67M20F

The strip i would like to go to is 3400ft at an elev 4933. With 9000ft peaks around it.

[67M20F]

Right that is why i havnt done it yet. I think if i can do under 1500ft at home consitantly, and play on a lower or mabey longer grass strip, to find the effects first. High DA is what i am used to flying in that is why i know the climb out could get tricky. When flying out of evw it was 10000ft DA I was somewhat light and could only get 300ft climb. So I know I wont do it if its hot. Any suggestions on a good grass strip around northern ut. Or southern UT NV area?

[Mooney_Allegro]

Personally I would not fly my M20J into a grass strip. I did it many times in a PA-28-161 w/wheel pants and never had an issue, but with the low prop clearance and especially the low inner gear doors, I just don't want to take any chances. One of my friends has a house on a grass strip down near Ft. Lauderdale and keeps trying to convince me that there are no ground hog holes in the runway, but I keep being reminded of the Mooney that was taxiing at Oshkosh in grass in 2008, and the nose sunk in a hole and dinged the prop. It's not worth it to me. The Mooney already costs a lot of money and just trying to minimize repairs and headaches.

[N207LS]

Up until eight months ago, I had kept my Mooney at two different grass strips.  The first one was 4500' and newly resurfaced and the second was 3500' and was in just okay condition.  Neither was a problem.  I ruitinely fly in and out of grass strips as short as 2000' (Chalet Suzanne, Lake Wales, FL in fair condition) and have never had any problem.  I have an O-360 with a Power Flow Exhaust and am usually off within 1000-1200 feet.  The only caveat that I would add is that I fly in Florida and the average field elevation is less than 20'.  The other thing is that because of flying off grass often, I never added the inner gear door mod to my Mooney.  As far as the prop goes, I have never had any issues. 

Flying off grass does require some additional thought and practice, but in my opinion is a perfectly acceptable thing to do with any Mooney.  I would suggest that you find a good grass strip and spend an afternoon "brushing up" on your soft field technique before tackling some of your more adventourous soft fields though.  The only other cautionary statement that I would make on grass strips (especially at night) is if you are in a rural area, make sure to "buzz" the field at 50-100 feet first and then go around to land.  The last field where I was based routinely had all kinds of animals (raccoons, rabbits, possum, and sometimes an occasional cow), all of which could  do some real damage to your Mooney if you didn't scare them away first. Trust me when I say that you can see them scurry off of the field when you fly over at a low pass.  It is actually quite amusing.

Best of luck with your soft field experiences.

[Magnum]

Think about your fuel tanks, too. I don't use grass strips because I don't want to expose the tanks to the bumps. So far (knock on wood) no reseal necessary.

[N207LS]

Excellent comment on the fuel tanks...  (You can read my fuel tank comments in the Vintage Mooney section under several posts).  I puchased my 1968 M20G in 2005 and the tanks had the original sealant still in them.  There was patch work in 1984 (not too bad to have the tanks first touched 16 years later), 1993, 2004, and 2006.  From April 2005 until June of 2008 my aiplane was based on grass.  From 2005 until 2006 on a very good grass field (I might argue that the field was as smooth as new concrete (resurfaced and re-crested for waterdraining in early 2005).  From January 2006 - June 2008 I was based at a "good" grass field, but not great.  There were 5 Mooneys on the field (48X - Airport Manatee - Palmetto, FL), as well as a number of other high performance and complex aircraft.  The biggest issue here was the animals on the field.  The airport was located in a rural setting surrounded by many farms. 

As far as the fuel tanks go, my tanks had seeps in 2005 when I bought the plane.  At my first annual, in 2006, Florida Flight Maintenence (aka Mooney Mart - Venice, FL - KVNC) did a patch repair on both wings and it worked for about two years.  Earlier this year, two seeps appeared in my right tank and one appeared in the left tank.  All were directly located around screws in the inspection plates.  None were located at rivets and nothing in the gear well area.  My plane is currently at Wet Wingologists (Ft. Lauderdale - KFXE) undergoing a strip/reseal.  Personally, I am not that upset about it, nor do I blame grass fields for the issues.  The bottom line is that I have 41 year old sealant still sealing a good portion of my fuel tanks.  In 41 years, there have been 4 attempts to patch my tanks.  The only real thing that I blame myself for, was not doing a strip/reseal by a top shop in 2006. 

My opinion is that grass fields will not really harm your fuel tanks.  I think that a hard landing on any field will do more damage than any good landing on decent grass strip. 

[eaglebkh]

Eh-oh, I sense a tank vs. bladder discussion coming on...

[airkraft]

Quote: 67M20F

Thanks for the info, 30" I have never seen that in my plane. I usually cut it back to 2400 and 19-21" so i guess i just giving up speed at that huh.

[bgpilot1]

One of the best grass strips in the mid south is in Gastons, AR - north central AR.  Right next to a river and cottages.  Fly in one way and take off in the opposite direction.  Wondering if anyone has attempted this in a mooney at Gastons.  I could easily do this with three people in my Cherokee 140.  Hoping to make the transition with the fishing poles in the back.  Barry

[lahso]

I took my M20C into Gaston's last year. The winds were really gusty, but overall it wasn't bad. You land to the West, and take-off to the East. If you are use to landing long, practice short field landing and takeoff procedures before attempting Gaston's. The go-around climb gradient is steep (power lines and trees), so make your decision early in the landing process. The take-off to the East is a non-event because you face into a valley with enough room to exceed the obstacles (trees, mainly). I thought the grass strip was a little rough on my gear, so I won't land there again. However, Gaston's is a great place with friendly folks. Mountain Home (KBPK) is a good airport with easy transportation to Gaston's.