Engine Analyzers

[jlunseth]

Yes, I think we are saying the same thing.  You have one flow meter wired to two flow gauges.  And you are right, the pilot side location where the 700/800 usually goes is a lot handier.  The gauge over on the passenger side was hard to read, especially with a pass. in the plane. 

Good luck, you will like it.

[Magnum]

Quote: ehscott

 

[Magnum]

Quote: jlunseth

Once it found peak, it would sometimes display the difference in degrees from peak for leaning purposes.  So if you were trying to lean to 125 ROP it would show how close you were to that figure, rather than displaying the actual peak EGT and making you do the mental math.  (Let's see, peak was 1483 so I need to be at ?????).  I liked that feature but it did not come on all the time, and I never spent the time to figure out what you had to do to make it so. 

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: jlunseth

Maybe I didn't use all the functions of the 700, but I found it really simple.  I left it on Normalize, and auto so the unit constantly cycled through the various parameters and cylinders.  My thinking on "Normalize" was that I wanted to know actual temps, not percentages, because there is such a thing as running too cool as well as too hot, and I found it easier to figure that out if I saw actual temps.  There was a function with the Lean Find that I never really figured out.  Once it found peak, it would sometimes display the difference in degrees from peak for leaning purposes.  So if you were trying to lean to 125 ROP it would show how close you were to that figure, rather than displaying the actual peak EGT and making you do the mental math.  (Let's see, peak was 1483 so I need to be at ?????).  I liked that feature but it did not come on all the time, and I never spent the time to figure out what you had to do to make it so. 

[carusoam]

http://www.jpitech.com/faq.php

Under the FAQ section you can also find the ROP procedure vs. the LOP procedure.

This may be important if your cylinders don't all peak at the same FF.   For ROP it uses the first cylinder to peak.  For LOP it uses the last cylinder to peak.

It would be nice to have the FF data on the EDM.  During Lean Find it will capture the FF at Peak EGT.  It is less challenging to adjust FF to get the expected EGT.  less trial and error than try to adjust mixture and wait for EGT, adjust mixture and wait for EGT, adjust mixture and wait for EGT.

I'm going to take George's advice and watch the videos.

[Jeff_S]

Ah, videos...thanks George! I'll head over to them right now. I'd been on the JPI website but didn't see these.

[jlunseth]

That's way too easy. I suppose your one of those guys who pulls over and asks for directions.

[N57039]

I'm a very happy 800 user. One comment about the %HP. In LOP operations the number displayed is meaningless. The unit gives a choice of %HP or RPM in the same display place. I only cruise LOP, so I just leave it on RPM and therefore have a more accurate engine speed indication than the old mechanical tach.

[Jeff_S]

Directions? Who needs directions when you've got two different GPS units and an MX-20 moving map?!

[mooniac58]

I have had my EDM930 installed for about 3-4 months and I LOVE IT!  It is a primary STC install so it replaced everthing (Tach, MP, Fuel Gauges, CHT, OT, OP,FP) and added some new data for me (OAT, Fuel Flow, data on all cylinders, shock cooling rate).

At the end of the operation it cost me about $8800.00 to purchase (from Aircraft Spruce) and my local A&P installed it (he enjoys electrical and avionics work so you might find many A&P's will only do the work forward of the firewall and you will need an avionics shop to do the panel fabrication, etc).

You will also notice the small display above the AI.  This is only in the primary installation and in normal operations it shows you your RPM and MP (very nice for IFR scanning) - in the event of any alert this will flash to alert you of the failure - example: LOW OP!, HIGH CHT4!, etc.

I would highly recommend this unit to anyone.  Heck, drop in a G500 and you are more or less full glass.

Attached are some pictures of it in the cockpit.

[Magnum]

Your "flush mount" avionics panel looks really good!!

[mooniac58]

Quote: Magnum

Your "flush mount" avionics panel looks really good!!

 My A&P spent about 12 hours figuring out how to pull this off and eventually he did (he is a perfectionist almost to a fault!) - he eventually did away with the conventional "rail" type system and build a one piece cage to drop all of that in as one slide in/bolt in unit.  He really did a fantastic job.  The only gripe I would have about this concept is when you need to tune knobs in turbulence you don't have anything to stabalize your hand with (as I used to with the side of the units).

[Vref]

Anybody has experience with this brand new unit..?

http://www.insightavionics.com/g3.htm

Surely looks very tempting and can be installed in a standard instrumetn hole

 

[Buster1]

I want one of those g3s!  Nice.

[Parker_Woodruff]

I've got a JPI EDM700 and like it.  I'm thinking about getting it upgraded to a 730 by the end of the year...but I think I'd rather save towards an autopilot.

[Magnum]

I finally got my Mooney back with the Apen (it is now certified in Europe) and the EDM830. I was first concerned about the readability (as it is installed on the copilots side and I have my seat in the most forward position, the viewing angle is very steep), but the screen is perfect! All the important information at a glance. IMHO a very big difference to the EDM x00 series! If you want a engine monitor, get the x30 series.

[Jsavage3]

I just took delivery of my 201 and the deal came through with me receiving a brand new, in-the-box Electronics International UBG-16 (Ultimate Bar Graph) engine analyzer.  I have never used this type of engine analyzer before.  Per the buy-ei.com website, I can order fuel flow for $395 and RPM for $195 plus a host of other mods.  I will be putting an engine monitor in this 201 ASAP, but I am wondering if I should use this one that was provided (most economical choice of course) or sell it and buy a JPI 730/830.  Anyone out there who has experience with both the UBG-16 and the JPI systems?

I would really appreciate your observations and/or preferences.  Please include the "whys" when you state your preferences.

Thank you,

Jim
'86 M20J N5632Y

 

[danb35]

I have a UBG-16 in my Mooney, and I'm very happy with it.  Sure, I'd like an MVP-50 (or maybe a JPI 830), but they're significantly more expensive, and the UBG-16 is a very capable engine monitor.  If you don't already have a fuel flow system installed, though, I'd order (and did order) an FP-5L rather than the fuel flow module for the UBG-16--I like being able to monitor fuel flow separately when leaning.

My reasons for choosing EI over JPI when I bought (a little over 2 years ago now) were primarily price, support (EI's support is top-notch), and some nasty legal action JPI was involved in some time ago.  I (and others) could probably better address your situation, though, if you'd mention why you're considering selling the EI to buy a JPI unit.  If you want the nice color display, they only way you can get that from EI is to buy the MVP-50.  If it's something else, you may be able to do it with EI.

[Jsavage3]

Well, all of my experience has been with JPI products.  I've always been very satisfied with those types of analyzers.  The trouble of selling my EI version and buying a JPI seems unduly cost prohibitive and troublesome...especially when I have this product sitting here in my lap.  I'm not so concerned about pretty color displays, rather, I want easy-to-interpret and reliable information from which I can safely run LOP ops.

I appreciate your advice about the FP-5L.  Is there anything else that you would upgrade or change if you were to do it all over again?

Thank you,

Jim
'86 M20J N5632Y

 

[Mooney_Allegro]

I recently upgraded from the EDM-800 to the EDM-830, and absolutely LOVE IT!  I like the larger display and especially the color.  I wish JPI would make it easier to add and subtract partial fuel loads though.  If I add full fuel, it's no problem, but partial fuel loads take me some time.  I guess I just need more practice with it! 

[danb35]

Quote: Jsavage3

Is there anything else that you would upgrade or change if you were to do it all over again?

[Jerry]

I hade the EDM-830 installed last month and it is GREAT.  The large color display makes monitoring easy.  The only problem I have is with the Fuel Flow.  If I go Full Fuel, it's no problem but to add fuel is cumberson. I hope this gets better as I get more accustom button sequenses.

[N601RX]

JPI has some pretty good rebates through the end of the year.

[jlunseth]

I see that I indicated early on in this thread that I was having Willmar install a 930 and I would report back.  I have been flying it all summer it is just great.  I wrote a little about an emergency landing I had to make a couple of weeks ago because of low oil pressure.  I probably would not have detected the problem in time, had it now been for the 930.  The 930 pulls together into one display, all the readouts from all the little strip gauges that were installed in different locations on my panel, and which also were not very well lit after many years in service.  I was in the habit of periodically checking the 930 for the EGT's, CHT's, and TIT.  The Oil Press. is on the same display.  So in a routine check of the various cylinder readouts I happened to catch a 12 psi reading on the oil gauge and was able to make an immediate and timely landing.  Not sure I would have seen it on the factory gauge.

As for the cylinder temp readouts, they work really well.  The unit saves a record of each flight which can be downloaded to a computer, viewed and analyzed with software called EZ Trends that is either downloadable from the www.jpitech.com website or comes with the unit, don't remember which it was.  Helps me figure out what tweaks need to be done to the injectors (I have GAMI's) to even out the fuel flows and cylinder temps.

One feature of the 930 is that a check of the cylinders can be done during runup to make sure there is not a sticking valve or something similar.  After checking the magnetoes, I set the 930 to Normalize, which levels all the EGT's, then lean the engine which causes the EGT's to rise.  This checks to see of one or more EGT's are not rising proportionately to the others, which is a sign of illness in that cylinder. 

One other major convenience is that the MP and RPM gauges are also a part of the 930.  Those were removed from the far right panel and moved over within my scan.  In the 231 you can overboost the engine on take-off by firewalling the throttle.  The procedure is to put in about half throttle, wait for the turbo to kick in, and then ease the MP up to 36" for takeoff.  Having the MP right in front of you is a big help with this task loading during the takeoff roll.

Finally, my 231 also has an intercooler, and to properly operate the engine the pilot needs to know the difference between the Compressor Discharge Temp. (the air coming out of the turbo) and the Induction Air Temp. (the air after being cooled by the intercooler).  That allows the pilot to properly adjust the MP in light of the cooler and denser air going into the induction system.  The CDT and IAT also read out on the 930.  So the only function I can think of that did not get brought inside my scan is suction.  That would really have been good.

[scottfromiowa]

I would love to see a couple digital photos of your 930 in your panel.  Thanks!