I love my Rebuilt Acclaim

[Marauder]

Maybe I do have a rigging problem. But I do exactly as you describe above. But the only time I've ever not had at least some rudder either left or right was when I had negligible cross winds either way during a high speed cruise. . On the day I described initially , was actually two flights in opposite directions in similar conditions. I has some right rudder on the first leg but was flying slower and had only a 10 knot crosswind. Then as folks have pointed out I had a lot of left rudder on returning. But I didn't think too much about it as this was the highest, fastest I've flown the Acclaim and in those types of winds. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I see the same behavior in the TC Saratoga and the DA40.

Oh heck. I guess I'll just have to take her up and check her out!

While I'm at it ill get the rigging checked too. Starting to get a complex guys

Trust me, none of us are experts on airplanes. Shortly after buying my current Mooney one of the CFIs I used for a BFR commented on how my ailerons were slightly in a left bank -- but the plane was flying straight. I had noticed it before and even mentioned it to the "non-Mooney" mechanic I was working with. It wasn't until I had an annual done by someone who works on Mooneys regularly that the reason came out. My right main was dragging low just a bit. Enough for some brilliant mechanic to figure out mis-rigging the plane was the solution.

If your mechanic has access to the story boards, it is pretty easy to determine rigging problems of the flaps.

BTW -- I remember once that getting the Mooney "on the step" was thought to be a way to increase cruise speed. Haven't heard it in a while, people still talking about it?

[Marauder]

Image one shows the rudder trim on the engine page at the bottom pitch on the right edge with the small blue arrows. The image on the right is the pfd notice the nose is into the wind wings level. And to those who asked the rudder is motorized but not tied to the GFC auto pilot. Now I guess there maybe some inaccuracy with the digital representation on the G1000. But I was definitely faster coordinated with the rudder trim. Will find out tomorrow.

Looking at these panel shots is interesting. It is clear that you are in coordinated flight with the rudder cranked in. Looking at the small track display, you can see the plane is actually showing the little airplane on the track line with the nose pointed a little bit left. I think the real test would be if you cranked the rudder near neutral and looked at what the "ball" on your display shows. If you are in straight and level flight, I would expect it to be nearly if not completely centered.

Keep us posted on what you find out.

[carusoam]

From my M20R experience, I would expect the trim to be near centered while in level flight. While descending, some left rudder trim definitely shows up while the AP does it's job controlling the rest.

Your indication of a lot of trim in during level flight is worth tracking down...

On the other hand the rest of us may be a bit jealous of the GS=233kts sign on the big screen.

Something you may consider...

Is the rudder really to the left that much? Or is it just mis-indicating?

While taxiing, set the rudder trim to neutral, the plane will go straight. Then set the rudder trim to the left, as indicated, the plane will pull pretty hard to the left forcing your right foot down to keep the plane on the yellow line.

I learned this experimentally. I would set the trims for take-off and then taxi to the runway. Then I realized that my plane wanted to go to the right as I had asked it to by trimming the rudder to the right. Now I have found that wehave electric power steering as well! Like the big jets have joy stick stearing.

I must have missed something in the POH...

I'm going with "sensor challenged". I think you would notice if the tail was really that far left. The AP would balance all of the forces, but slow the plane below normal cruise. If you hand fly the plane with that much trim in you will be putting in a fair amount of opposite aileron pressure.

Nice thing is, you can test this rudder position sensor theory while on the ground.

Best regards,

-a-

[AcclaimML]

While taxiing, set the rudder trim to neutral, the plane will go straight. Then set the rudder trim to the left, as indicated, the plane will pull pretty hard to the left forcing your right foot down to keep the plane on the yellow line.

I learned this experimentally. I would set the trims for take-off and then taxi to the runway. Then I realized that my plane wanted to go to the right as I had asked it to by trimming the rudder to the right. Now I have found that wehave electric power steering as well! Like the big jets have joy stick stearing.

Best regards,

-a-

I guess your pointing out the rudder and Hesse rudder trim is connected to the nose wheel. My transition trained recommend against using it on the ground without using my foot to reduce the torque on the motor servo. He said it was a good way to burn it up by overloading the servo. Quite honestly, I have no ideas how much torque it can handle, but with adjusting the trim on the ground. Aren't you just getting mostly nose wheel inputs?

Either way. I plan on centering the trim on the G1000 in the hanger and then we'll see what we got. It should be aligned with the vehicle stabilizer. If not its an indicator issue- no biggie. If its lined up the only other thing I can think of is to jack her up and retract the wheels. Maybe something isn't closing properly.

More to follow.

[RobertoTohme]

I tend to favor a misaligned sensor after reading all the descriptions... If the plane is doing the speeds it should based on the profile for power and altitude, then there's no rigging problem. The factory re-rigged my Eagle after painting it in 2009 and I lost 13 knots TAS for the same profiles, and now the flap indicator disappears of the led bar when full down selected, and can't figure out where my knots were lost since the plane just gained 9 lbs in the process. Dugosh has confirmed the rigging as correct on the last 2 annuals, so no clue as to what caused the lost speed but I sure miss that.

[Parker_Woodruff]

It sounds like you might have a rigging problem. The sheet metal on your Mooney does not know it's flying in a crosswind. Big difference between rolling on the ground with a crosswind and flying with one.

[AcclaimML]

Well everyone. Roberto is right. Misaligned sensor on the rudder trim servo. Checked the rigging with my AP today. All perfect. But the G1000 indicator show 1/2 full left rudder when there is none. Don't understand how it can be that off but it is. Then plane itself ...is like a dream. Now that I have the landings dialed in and greasing in more often than not, I just absolutely love flying it.

So the rudder sensor will be added to the list for the IFR cert in a few months. Thanks to those sharp eyes for pointing the rudder position issue out. Kinda humbling when folks are sharp enough to pick up stuff like that.

[Marauder]

Well everyone. Roberto is right. Misaligned sensor on the rudder trim servo. Checked the rigging with my AP today. All perfect. But the G1000 indicator show 1/2 full left rudder when there is none. Don't understand how it can be that off but it is. Then plane itself ...is like a dream. Now that I have the landings dialed in and greasing in more often than not, I just absolutely love flying it.

So the rudder sensor will be added to the list for the IFR cert in a few months. Thanks to those sharp eyes for pointing the rudder position issue out. Kinda humbling when folks are sharp enough to pick up stuff like that.

Great to hear that you found the problem.

[AcclaimML]

Yeah me too. But I knew the plane was right otherwise. Course I have to brag again- flew from Pell City, Al to Austin, Tx in 3 hours 12minutes! This is just amazing to me the speed this Acclaim has. True I was fortunate no to have too much of a headwind. But still... I'm just really giddy with what this bird can do- and very comfortably too!

(Sorry folks ill stop bragging and gushing about my plane).

[fantom]

Great suggestion, Jim!

[AcclaimML]

That sounds great! Unfortunately, I'm on call this weekend- Friday when I get back. But I'd definitely take a rain check.

Mike

[fantom]

That sounds great! Unfortunately, I'm on call this weekend- Friday when I get back. But I'd definitely take a rain check.

Mike

Your phone will work in Ocala ;-)

[xftrplt]

I just assumed the amount of rudder needed is a function of the true crosswind component and true airspeed. Which was 27 knots and 201 knots respectively.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I'm always looking to learn something new.

Not only are you wrong, you are profoundly wrong. Sorry, but this is basic student pilot stuff.

This thinking comes from too much time flying with GPS and too little basic airmanship.

Question: If you had no GPS (or VOR, etc.) and were flying over an undercast or over smooth water, how would you or the plane know there was a "crosswind?"

Note: The "crosswind" (note quotation marks) you refer to is only relative to a ground track.

Advice: Get thee to a good CFI ASAP, or cozy up with a good book on the subject.

[Jeff_S]

Well, I think that post may be a bit pedantic but it is right...rudder trim isn't the answer to correcting for upper air movement crosswise from your direction of flight.

But if you haven't already, you should definitely find a copy of Wolfgang Langewiesche's "Stick and Rudder," which is essential reading for any pilot who really wants to understand how his airplane works. Although written nearly 70 years ago, it is still as pertinent today as it was then for those of us flying piston-driven machines. I re-read it every year not only to remind myself of the basics, but because I genuinely like his writing style.

[AustinKalb]

Maybe I'm missing something... In my Ovation 2 the rudder trim needs to be almost all the way right for climb, and 3/4+ to the left for high speed cruise (190 kts:). I bought it from the factory and did the transition training with Trey. Its my understanding that its correct... and it makes sense - why would one ever need much more left rudder trim than cruising at the top of the yellow.

And when tracking in a crosswind with the autopilot, the GFC700 adds a crab. There is actually a "Current Track Indicator" indicator on the G1000 HSI (a magenta diamond) that differs from the heading by the crab angle. The airplane flys straight and level in the crab.

So am missing something or not?

A

[jetdriven]

My old Century IIB in NAV mode adds up to a 15 degree crosswind correction.

[Hank]

Coming home last Sunday, course 012; winds were 270-280, rising from high 20's to ~40. I had 12-degrees left course correction (360), and a slight left bank more observable by comparing both wingtips to the horizon than on the panel. But I don't have a rudder trim--what would it have done differently?

[drake15d]

Do the newer aircraft couple with the rudder trim? I flew a G1000 Cessna that would automatically crab the aircraft when the AP was engaged, but did not trim the aircraft with the rudder.

Or maybe, like what was said earlier, the rigging is wrong or is indicating improperly. Besides that. 230+ ground speed is numbing to think about. Especially at that fuel burn.

[AcclaimML]

Come on guys. No need to insult my flying skills. With a cross wind to the path of flight the AP WILL add a crab into the wind- but it leaves you uncoordinated. GPS or not, I don't like flying with the ball uncentered ( not to mention u lose a knot or 2 that way). So then I add rudder trim In MANUALLY. To center the ball. Also, my G1000 incorrectly depicts the rudder trim 1/2 of full to the left. Mechanically the rudder is fine.

I am a bit disappointed at the tone of some of the posters here. I am certainly not the best pilot here but not the worst either. I did my transition training with Corbin Halerin of Premiere and is their saftey expert. He praised my stick and rudder skills. Not to mention I passed my biannual review with a FAA examiner at Fulton county during non-stop light to moderate turbulence ( 2 hours under the hood). He could find no faults.

Would it be too much to soften the pre judgements just cause I may not be explaining this rudder trim issue to everyone's satisfaction?

[carusoam]

I think it's human beings being human... With Internet interaction.

The nature of the beast.

We get much good, and sometimes just the opposite...

Best regards,

-a-

[AcclaimML]

Thanks

[jetdriven]

Come on guys. No need to insult my flying skills. With a cross wind to the path of flight the AP WILL add a crab into the wind- but it leaves you uncoordinated. GPS or not, I don't like flying with the ball uncentered ( not to mention u lose a knot or 2 that way). So then I add rudder trim In MANUALLY. To center the ball. Also, my G1000 incorrectly depicts the rudder trim 1/2 of full to the left. Mechanically the rudder is fine.

I am a bit disappointed at the tone of some of the posters here. I am certainly not the best pilot here but not the worst either. I did my transition training with Corbin Halerin of Premiere and is their saftey expert. He praised my stick and rudder skills. Not to mention I passed my biannual review with a FAA examiner at Fulton county during non-stop light to moderate turbulence ( 2 hours under the hood). He could find no faults.

Would it be too much to soften the pre judgements just cause I may not be explaining this rudder trim issue to everyone's satisfaction?

Don't take it personal, bro. We are all learning here. I have probably doubled my piston knowledge here. I came here as a piston engine fool but attacked all the information because thats where I was deficient. I will state for fact, that your Acclaim does not know if there is a crosswind in cruise. It only knows magnetic heading and ground track. It flies a different MH based on what i requiired to hold the courseline. That rudder trim shouldnt change based on that. AFAIK, the Acclaim does not even have any control over the rudder. You will have to adjust the rudder trim based on cruise power setting (torque, P-factor, and spiraling slipstream effects), but thats it.

[DonMuncy]

We may have a communication problem here, but in an air mass, either you hand flying, or the auto-pilot flying, the nose of your plane will point a different direction than the direction you are actually moving over the ground. But this is not a yaw, nor will you have a wing down. You are not uncoordinated. You are flying a straight and level path within that air mass. This does not take into account wind shear as you move between one air mass and another. It definitely does not speak to what you have to do in trying to land.

[xftrplt]

AcclaimML wrote: "Come on guys. No need to insult my flying skills. With a cross wind to the path of flight the AP WILL add a crab into the wind- but it leaves you uncoordinated."

It doesn't leave me (or my aircraft) uncoordinated. 

Apparently, you haven't absorbed the information in the numerous above posts.

Restating a misconception with conviction doesn't make it any less wrong.

I don't know a whit about your flying skills, but hopefully they're better than your understanding of the difference between crabbing and slipping. However, at this point, I'll leave the process of enlightenment to others. 

Edit note to DM re following post: Regardless of your spiritual needs [perhaps the Burning Man Fesitval would help :-) ], we certainly agree regarding how an aircraft flys.

[DonMuncy]

Apparently I need a lot of enlightenment.