Garmin Pilot disappointment

[Jackk]

8 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I don't believe that this is the intended use of the OBS Mode Select discrete input. Although connecting a TOGA button to it and pressing it during an approach should cause the navigator to unsuspend and sequence to the MAHP, pressing TOGA at other times (like before takeoff) would cause the OBS mode to toggle which is not what you would want. Anyway, the only drawing I see in the installation manual utilizing this input shows connecting it to a Mid-Continent MD41 Series Annunciation Control Unit which includes a button labelled OBS (not TOGA). I believe this drawing, coupled with the fact that there is no mention of a TOGA (or Go Around as Garmin calls it) button in the installation manual or the pilot's guide pretty clearly indicates the intended purpose of the OBS mode select input.

MD41-140X_141X_im.pdf 111.92 kB · 1 download

 You’d be setting modes anyways after hitting toga prior to take off 

 

 hitting TOGA normally gives you ROL PIT FMAs in most FD equipped planes 

 

 So for a normal takeoff you’d hit TOGA, set your initial altitude, activate heading mode, set runway heading, probably also arm LNAV depending on the DP. 
 

 Takeoff, pitch into the bars, clean up and speed up to target climb, hit FLC or IAS mode to catch it, 1k AGL AP as desired. 

[Hank]

6 hours ago, bonal said:

Don’t think of it as criticism as I said very educational.  But I think in my humble opinion more productive without the stone throwing.

Sadly there's been an awful lot of that in this thread . . . . .

[Jackk]

22 minutes ago, Hank said:

Sadly there's been an awful lot of that in this thread . . . . .

 You were one of the biggest stone throwers 

[Hank]

19 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 You were one of the biggest stone throwers 

Monkey see, monkey do . . . . .  

[Aaviationist]

I think you’re both sub 80 iq

Edited December 29, 2025 by Aaviationist

[gabez]

On 12/16/2025 at 10:46 PM, PeteMc said:

So with the iPad in Horizontal View, you can do a split screen and keep the map on one side and the chart on the other?  I've been tell FF they should do that for years!  

yep

[LANCECASPER]

On 12/13/2025 at 12:30 PM, redbaron1982 said:

After ForeFlight got acquired by a private equity, and known how private equity companies works, I decided to cancel my subscription and move over to Garmin Pilot.

Today I finally went for it, and it ended with cancelling my subscription 30 minutes after I started it.

The first thing that I tried was to import from ForeFlight my logbook. I got an "Error importing logbook" message, no indication of what was going on, anything. I reached out to support, and they didn't know what was going on either, and asked me to start manually splitting my logbook into smaller chunks. Before doing that I checked if there was any useful message in Chrome's dev console, and there was: "Fligth table cannot be found" or something. So I fixed the CSV export from ForeFlight (it had some extra white spaces that confused Garmin) and I got to the next step. Now I got a lot of "unrecognized" columns. Some that were important for currency, like "Landings" or "Takeoffs". I asked to the support guy if I had to update all this manually, and he said yes.

I was still trying to make this work, so I went and finish the import and looked at the result: first, the UI is ugly, it looks like a web page from the 2000s. And then, all currencies were messed up. My IFR currency was showing 0 instrument approaches, when I actually had 6 in the last 6 months. I mean, the approaches were showing up in the logbook entries, but it was not counting towards my currency.

At that point I said this is enough and ask the support guy to cancel my subscription.

The thing that pissed me off the most is that the support guy was like "yeah, this is how it works" and when I asked to cancel the subscription he said "ok" and just cancelled it. Literally no intention to make the product work for me.

I really wanted to migrate, I do see some advantages (its a bit cheaper than Forefligt, I can use my Android tablet as a backup, etc)... but I was shocked by the bad quality of, at least, the logbook part of the app.

I don't use GP as my logbook, so that's never been a consideration between Garmin Pilot and Foreflight.

 

Early versions of Garmin Pilot were adequate but were inferior to FF. After flying once last summer with Smart Charts I let my Foreflight expire and I was getting a 33% discount. I went out and flew a couple of approaches yesterday and was reminded again of how much better Garmin Pilot is compared to Foreflight on the Approach Plates. Smart Charts with the Profile View now geo-referenced is really a game changer. I will probably end up putting my Aera 760 on my co-pilots yoke and the iPad mini on the pilot's yoke. I've asked Garmin if Smart Charts are coming to the Aera 760 and they said that there have been a lot of inquiries similar to mine.

Foreflight still has a loyal following but I expect them to lose a lot of subscribers to Smart Charts and cutting the discount to SAFE members. Garmin has re-arranged the way they give the Premium upgrade to One Pak database customers but at least it is still there for now.  So for me it ends up being less money for Garmin Pilot Premium and it has game-changing features. Even if I was using the logbook feature I would consider that a one-time inconvenience and transfer that info to something "permanent"

[N201MKTurbo]

My ex wife and I met when I was an electronics engineer and she was my PCB designer. She moved on to sales for PCB design software. She is now the director of customer support for Zuken PCB design software.

The point of all this is I have used and watched the evolution of the different design packages since 1990. During the 90s there was a feature war among the different packages. Every few weeks somebody would come up with a new feature. Then everybody would copy it. By about 2010 all the different packages had the same features. The only differences was how the features were implemented. So it all comes down to what you are used to using. 
 

I have a feeling FF and GP will soon be to the same place and there will be little difference feature wise between the two. And it will just come down to what you are used to using.

[Jackk]

26 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

My ex wife and I met when I was an electronics engineer and she was my PCB designer. She moved on to sales for PCB design software. She is now the director of customer support for Zuken PCB design software.

The point of all this is I have used and watched the evolution of the different design packages since 1990. During the 90s there was a feature war among the different packages. Every few weeks somebody would come up with a new feature. Then everybody would copy it. By about 2010 all the different packages had the same features. The only differences was how the features were implemented. So it all comes down to what you are used to using. 
 

I have a feeling FF and GP will soon be to the same place and there will be little difference feature wise between the two. And it will just come down to what you are used to using.

 This issue is the industry and .gov

 

 Most airlines use and are approved for JepPro (which is a dumbed down version of FF) and most 135s and .mil use and is approved for foreflight.

 

 Swapping to a different EFB and the training of instructors, pilots, etc, would take a monumental difference between Garmin and Foreflight to be worth it, and even before that happens you have to get your FCOM / GOM approved, which is even larger pain in the butt and time suck.

 

 As it stand right now the price delta for a single subscription Garmin vs Foreflight is about the same as the average before work Starbucks.

Edited December 29, 2025 by Jackk

[N201MKTurbo]

4 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 This issue is the industry and .gov

 

 Most airlines use and are approved for JepPro (which is a dumbed down version of FF) and most 135s and .mil use and is approved for foreflight.

 

 Swapping to a different EFB and the training of instructors, pilots, etc, would take a monumental difference between Garmin and Foreflight to be worth it, and even before that happens you have to get your FCOM / GOM approved, which is even larger pain in the butt and time suck.

 

 As it stand right now the price delta for a single subscription Garmin vs Foreflight is about the same as the average before work Starbucks.

Sure, but this is Mooneyspace, not Alrline Pilot Space. Although it is interesting to hear what is going on in the airline world, we are primarily interested in the issues that affect us as Mooney pilots.

[toto]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

Garmin has re-arranged the way they give the Premium upgrade to One Pak database customers but at least it is still there for now.

Wait, how do you get the Premium discount with a OnePak now? When I looked at the db pricing page it seemed to have gone away completely, so I bought a full GP copy at renewal time. 

[Jackk]

2 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Sure, but this is Mooneyspace, not Alrline Pilot Space. Although it is interesting to hear what is going on in the airline world, we are primarily interested in the issues that affect us as Mooney pilots.

 It’s all interconnected, FF could lose all Pt91 piston business and still stomp Garmin as a EFB based on their stronghold in the 121/135/mil, turbine, and overall pro realm

 

 I would wager Garmin knows this 

 

As for a EFB, a crossing restriction is a crossing restriction and mins are mins, the difference in plate overlay options between the two is minimal. 

 

 So unless Garmin majorly slashes its price points and try’s to take the recreational piston market from FF, I think they will stay a very distant second place until Garmin just loses interest and orphans their EFB, or rolls it somewhat into another product like one of their hand held navigators, which are only popular in a aging demographic of the market 

 

 

 

[redbaron1982]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

I don't use GP as my logbook, so that's never been a consideration between Garmin Pilot and Foreflight.

 

Early versions of Garmin Pilot were adequate but were inferior to FF. After flying once last summer with Smart Charts I let my Foreflight expire and I was getting a 33% discount. I went out and flew a couple of approaches yesterday and was reminded again of how much better Garmin Pilot is compared to Foreflight on the Approach Plates. Smart Charts with the Profile View now geo-referenced is really a game changer. I will probably end up putting my Aera 760 on my co-pilots yoke and the iPad mini on the pilot's yoke. I've asked Garmin if Smart Charts are coming to the Aera 760 and they said that there have been a lot of inquiries similar to mine.

Foreflight still has a loyal following but I expect them to lose a lot of subscribers to Smart Charts and cutting the discount to SAFE members. Garmin has re-arranged the way they give the Premium upgrade to One Pak database customers but at least it is still there for now.  So for me it ends up being less money for Garmin Pilot Premium and it has game-changing features. Even if I was using the logbook feature I would consider that a one-time inconvenience and transfer that info to something "permanent"

After some comments in this thread, I decided to move my logbook to a dedicated app. Now I'm giving a try to GP, I'm still trying to get used to the UI, although it looks much better than FF, it will take a few flights to get used to it.

[redbaron1982]

11 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 It’s all interconnected, FF could lose all Pt91 piston business and still stomp Garmin as a EFB based on their stronghold in the 121/135/mil, turbine, and overall pro realm

 

 I would wager Garmin knows this 

 

As for a EFB, a crossing restriction is a crossing restriction and mins are mins, the difference in plate overlay options between the two is minimal. 

 

 So unless Garmin majorly slashes its price points and try’s to take the recreational piston market from FF, I think they will stay a very distant second place until Garmin just loses interest and orphans their EFB, or rolls it somewhat into another product like one of their hand held navigators, which are only popular in a aging demographic of the market 

 

 

 

Sure your analysis is correct, and I'm sure back in 2010 you would have done the same analysis about Blackberry being unbeatable, or same for Internet Explorer, and so many other "kings" that fell into disgrace rather quickly.

[Jackk]

16 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

Sure your analysis is correct, and I'm sure back in 2010 you would have done the same analysis about Blackberry being unbeatable, or same for Internet Explorer, and so many other "kings" that fell into disgrace rather quickly.

 MS browsers are still unfortunately mandatory to have many gov websites work right.

 

 I would say if blackberries were written into FAA and military flight manuals they would have been around longer, but they also were hardware.  FF uses Apple, who ain’t going anywhere 

[LANCECASPER]

Wait, how do you get the Premium discount with a OnePak now? When I looked at the db pricing page it seemed to have gone away completely, so I bought a full GP copy at renewal time. 

This comes from Beechtalk

So it looks like Garmin will do this for the next two renewals. I haven’t received an e-mail from them yet.

[McMooney]

6 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

This comes from Beechtalk

So it looks like Garmin will do this for the next two renewals. I haven’t received an e-mail from them yet.

Grr,  this sux for my GP subscription but i can now switch to jepp and buy databases for my gns480 and gnc355.  still about a 200$ a year increase,  not much in aviation dollars i guess

Edited December 30, 2025 by McMooney

[midlifeflyer]

4 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Smart Charts with the Profile View now geo-referenced is really a game changer.

…and they already include “Smart” SIDs and STARs.

[Skates97]

On 12/25/2025 at 10:32 AM, Aaviationist said:

I personally just memorize any plate I may possibly need. If you can’t do that you shouldn’t be flying. 
 

@Skates97how am I doing?

Not sure why you're pulling me into this troll fest... I had to look back through the thread to see if I had commented. I sense some sarcasm in your post?

Personally, I have the approach plate up on the tablet on my yoke (and could pull it up on the second one on the RH panel if needed) every time I fly an approach, regardless of the number of times I have flown it. Even at my home airport where I've flown the RNAV countless times I still review the fixes and altitudes on the plate verbally out loud prior to reaching the IAF. I long ago memorized the fixes and crossing altitudes on that approach but what harm is there in reviewing it just prior to flying it? If anything it is getting me mentally "in the game" so to speak.

[Jackk]

5 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

Not sure why you're pulling me into this troll fest... I had to look back through the thread to see if I had commented. I sense some sarcasm in your post?

Personally, I have the approach plate up on the tablet on my yoke (and could pull it up on the second one on the RH panel if needed) every time I fly an approach, regardless of the number of times I have flown it. Even at my home airport where I've flown the RNAV countless times I still review the fixes and altitudes on the plate verbally out loud prior to reaching the IAF. I long ago memorized the fixes and crossing altitudes on that approach but what harm is there in reviewing it just prior to flying it? If anything it is getting me mentally "in the game" so to speak.

 Uhh, why would you memorize anything vs using your EFB and avionics?

 

 What avionics stack do you have?

[Bartman]

On 12/26/2025 at 9:41 PM, Rick Junkin said:

The “ignore” function really helps to preserve the posts worth reading while suppressing those that are not. Be sure to check all of the boxes when you use it. It will bring Mooneyspace back up the hill for you.

Well what do you know, it works !

[Skates97]

26 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 Uhh, why would you memorize anything vs using your EFB and avionics?

 

 What avionics stack do you have?

**Don't feed the troll, don't feed the troll**

Oh well...

It's the approach at my home airport that I have flown enough that it is committed to memory. Isn't that how everyone's mind works? Did you miss the part where I said I still use my EFB on every approach? Good grief.

[varlajo]

25 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

**Don't feed the troll, don't feed the troll**

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

**Don't feed the troll, don't feed the troll**

Oh well...

It's the approach at my home airport that I have flown enough that it is committed to memory. Isn't that how everyone's mind works? Did you miss the part where I said I still use my EFB on every approach? Good grief.

He can't help himself from responding to nearly every post.

 

One of my favorite quotes:

“Perhaps you should occasionally allow yourself the luxury of an unexpressed thought.”
―William P. Barr 1850

[Jackk]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

**Don't feed the troll, don't feed the troll**

Oh well...

It's the approach at my home airport that I have flown enough that it is committed to memory. Isn't that how everyone's mind works? Did you miss the part where I said I still use my EFB on every approach? Good grief.

 Yeah, got to skip over the lemurs and read the post to get the knowledge out of it.

 

 You shouldn’t be using memorization or a iPad on the approach if you have newish avionics 

 

 I’m sure all the private pilot captains will be along soon to tell me how it’s done 

Edited December 29, 2025 by Jackk