IO-360 ‘warm engine’ start on M20J

[Tiny18Driver]

Hi all-

Does anyone have thoughts on starting a sort-of warm engine that’s most likely in vapor lock? 

Hot start— check, no issues. Standard cold start— check no issues. Flooded start— check, no issues. An engine that has sat for about 2 hours— kicking my butt.

Previous chats and the internets suggest going with a hot engine start (throttle - slightly in, mixture - cutoff, no boost). That’s not really working. My Plan B has been to boost it to a flooded state (checklist style with throttle cracked, and mixture rich) then doing the AFM Flooded Engine Start. Also not really working. 

Now I’ve seen a suggestion to boost it to a flooded state by: Mixture - Rich, Throttle - FULL OPEN, Boost pump - ON 3-5 seconds, then crank with Throttle - ~1000RPM, Mixture - Idle/Cutoff.

I guess it sort of makes sense to boost with throttle fuel open to purge fuel lines of vapor, but that’s a new one to me… so I now open the floor for suggestions.

Cheers!

[Mooney in Oz]

5 minutes ago, Tiny18Driver said:

I guess it sort of makes sense to boost with throttle fuel open to purge fuel lines of vapor, but that’s a new one to me… so I now open the floor for suggestions.

If mine has been shutdown for longer than about 20-30 minutes, I fully open the throttle, give it a quick half a second boost pump squirt of fuel, close the throttle then do a normal start.

This method generally works for me provided I don’t over do it with the boost pump.

[Ragsf15e]

I generally did them in this order when warmish…

1. Hot start

2. Normal prime, normal start

3. Flood it, flooded start.

 Don’t remember getting to #3 more than once or twice in 10 years.  
Fyi, I always prime with throttle full open, mix full rich as that’s the most flow.

[Joe Linnebur]

Like Mooney in Oz said above, in those ‘intermediate’ situations I tend to go rich mixture, throttle full, then a few second burst of the fuel pump. Then I do a hot start technique (throttle open a little more than normal, mixture lean). Seems to light off within 10 blades. A little throttle “in and out action” sometimes is needed to get the air/fuel ratio right, but that might be our engine.

[MikeOH]

For anything but a cold stat my technique is to leave the throttle where it was at shutdown (1100 rpm), NO boost pump, mixture ICO, start cranking and WAIT 2 to 3 seconds to see if it lights off...if not, then I SLOWLY start advancing mixture until it starts.  This works for me for anything from a few minutes to a couple of hours after shutdown.

[0TreeLemur]

21 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

For anything but a cold stat my technique is to leave the throttle where it was at shutdown (1100 rpm), NO boost pump, mixture ICO, start cranking and WAIT 2 to 3 seconds to see if it lights off...if not, then I SLOWLY start advancing mixture until it starts.  This works for me for anything from a few minutes to a couple of hours after shutdown.

This is what I do too.   And it allmost always works.   There is a video by Don Maxwell about hot-starting a Mooney that I really enjoyed and thought was educational.  It's linked here on this site multiple places I'm sure.  In that video he said "Lycoming engines always start flooded."   I took that to heart and it relieved my stress about starting a hot or warm engine.

[Z W]

Here's how Continental says to do it, from their "Tips on Engine Care" publication. Works every time. Full documentation attached and worth the read. Lycoming people may have a different experience.

Hot Start Procedures - Continental.pdf

[Shadrach]

5 hours ago, Z W said:

Here's how Continental says to do it, from their "Tips on Engine Care" publication. Works every time. Full documentation attached and worth the read. Lycoming people may have a different experience.

Hot Start Procedures - Continental.pdf 994.51 kB · 0 downloads

You would expect people to have different experiences, given the differences between the Bendix RSA style fuel system and the Continental fuel system. Lycoming’s have no return line from the servo as there is with the Continental. This means that you cannot circulate fuel through the servo. It’s a one-way street from the tank to the injectors. This does not mean that it is difficult to hot start an injected Lycoming engine, it just means that one must use procedures oriented towards the Bedix RSA style fuel system.  Challenging hot starts are often related to ignition issues. These engines really aren’t that hard to start when hot. I’m proof that it doesn’t take a genius.

[GeeBee]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

You would expect people to have different experiences, given the differences between the Bendix RSA style fuel system, and the Continental fuel system. Lycoming have no return line from the servo as there is with the Continental. This means that you cannot circulate fuel through the servo. It’s a one-way street from the tank to the injectors. This does not mean that it is difficult to hot start an injected Lycoming engine, it just means that one must use procedures oriented towards the Bedix RSA style fuel system.  Challenging hot starts are often related to ignition issues. These engines really aren’t that hard to start when hot. I’m proof that it doesn’t take a genius.

That is correct. Lycoming and Continental require different approaches.

[McMooney]

i do exactly as you've been told,

 

hot start, if that doesn't work, flood it.

[Ragsf15e]

13 minutes ago, McMooney said:

i do exactly as you've been told,

 

hot start, if that doesn't work, flood it.

Just be careful.  If you have to flood it often because it won’t start hot/warm, you’re doing a lot more starts than needed with excessive fuel in the engine.  It’s in the exhaust, maybe dripping down the intakes, etc.  there’s maybe a slightly increased risk of fire.  The engine should start pretty well if the ignition system is set up correctly and the plugs are good.  Once in a great while, a flooded start happens, but shouldn’t become SOP.

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, McMooney said:

i do exactly as you've been told,

 

hot start, if that doesn't work, flood it.

I think that’s a sub-optimal approach. I have seen flooded engines catch fire at the pump. I’m kidding. Starting an engine simply requires a combustible mix of fuel and air.  I have never had to flood a Lycoming engine to get it to start.

[ArtVandelay]

Does no one check the fuel pressure before starting?

[DC_Brasil]

17 hours ago, MikeOH said:

For anything but a cold stat my technique is to leave the throttle where it was at shutdown (1100 rpm), NO boost pump, mixture ICO, start cranking and WAIT 2 to 3 seconds to see if it lights off...if not, then I SLOWLY start advancing mixture until it starts.  This works for me for anything from a few minutes to a couple of hours after shutdown.

Lycoming IO-360-A3B6D here. 

That's exactly how I do it.

[McMooney]

10 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I think that’s a sub-optimal approach. I have seen flooded engines catch fire at the pump. I’m kidding. Starting an engine simply requires a combustible mix of fuel and air.  I have never had to flood a Lycoming engine to get it to start.

probably true, but, it works within 5 or 6 blades every time.  Guess you could just crank with the pump on till it starts.

[Justin Schmidt]

29 minutes ago, McMooney said:

probably true, but, it works within 5 or 6 blades every time.  Guess you could just crank with the pump on till it starts.

Mine backfires doing that