Research on Mooney-Specific Training

[triple8s]

From my very limited experience and from the statistics.......most Mooney accidents are landing incidents........(I read this somewhere) I'd say landing or the importance of proper energy management is a place that a mooney will see where you've messed up more than lots of other brands. None of the models will quit (stop flying) until the energy is used up. Force a Mooney down and the excess energy is converted into and dissipated as a porpoise. I had a seasoned (so I thought ) CFI with me just as a safety pilot and he wanted to land my old C model. Lowly 180hp manual gear Mooney.........scared the crap out of me and DEFINATELY humbled his butt. Nothing was harmed but his ego. I was surprised at how the long body Mooneys still float, I thought the extra weight would make them settle more quickly.......nope! Lol Read, learn and abide by the mooney law or you will get bit! Mooneys will not tolerate sloppy piloting as will other brands.

[BorealOne]

Given the choice, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Mooney specific instruction. I spent time w/ Jaeger, and found his knowledge of the tighter corners of the performance envelope, the systems, foibles and quirks of my Ovation to be well worth the time. Sure, 10h of dual with anyone would have satisfied the insurer, but I'm a much more knowledgeable pilot/owner for having gotten to know my machine with Bruce.

 

That said, it's still a complex, high performance land plane, and is similar in many respects to other birds of that breed. I went to a Mooney after getting some multi- time in on a Seneca. Understanding the need for precision, and doing lots of stuff to stay ahead of the airplane are the disciplines that high-performance aircraft demand of a pilot. 

 

Since porpoising was mentioned in an earlier post, I'll go a little off topic and note that if you ever want to experience a transition from the 'world that you know' to something almost completely unfamiliar - get a check out in a Lake Amphib. it's complex, amphibious, and has the engine mounted behind you and backwards. The throttle and prop controls are on the ceiling. It handles completely differently in a take-off stall situation than anything else I've flown, and the porpoising that you can get into on a choppy day off the water is a humbling experience for even high-time pilots. It's much more of a bird of a different feather. Perhaps that's why you can't get insured in them unless you've completed a 25h factory course.

[jetdriven]

I think finding an instructor you relate to well and learn from easily is far more important than finding a "mooney specific" instructor (whatever/whoever that is).  There is a reason that light piston singles don't require type ratings.

With that in mind: A good instructor, regardless of their background, should do their homework (systems and procedures, as well as polling other IP's for type specific gotchas) prior to seeing their student.  If they don't, then you may want to find a new instructor!  

Each person learning how to fly a mooney will have a different experience.  For some, it will seem like its screaming across the earth and refuses to slow down.  For others, it will feel very...well... slow.  All depends on what else you fly and how you fly it.  A good instructor should also recognize your experience level and tailor your learning to that level.  

Again: the key is to find a good instructor.  Mooney time is a perk after that which you may or may not want to pay extra for.

 

The last guy I transitioned into a Mooney was told to never land with full flaps, "Mooney's are hot, hard to land, and impossible to slow down", and "never fly under 100 MPH".  With predictable results.  Now he was actually a really good pilot, and in 3 hours or so, was coming over the threshold at 72 MPH and landing in 1000', which was shorter than the warrior, 182, and a whole host of other Cessna's that were landing in that last hour.  Time in make and model is important.

[N9201A]

Lot of good thoughts here...obviously it is easier for a Bo driver to transition than a 172er, but our birds do have some quirks that are unique:

 

Donuts - woe is he who drives it on or drops the nose.  

Laminar wing - more speed, worse low-speed handling (add a few thousand feet to your usual 172 stall practice altitude!!).

Ground clearance - more care when taxiing/rolling.

Momentum - our birds both accelerate and decelerate more slowly than others with bigger engines and fatter wings.

 

I always enjoy hearing someone recite one of the usual anti-Mooney myths:  "Don't fly below 80/90/100, don't fly in crosswinds, don't take off without flaps, don't taxi on grass, blah blah blah."  I invite the "expert" up ... myth "busted."  Want to be sloppy?  Fly a Cessna...or get a Cirrus and "just pull the chute."  

 

Whatever we fly, as PICs we must learn to FLY it!  DO those short/soft landings, practice no power landings, KNOW what our birds will do BEFORE there is a problem, because when one happens, we won't have time to think about it.   

[pinerunner]

A final thought on speeds: The (radical) concept of 1.3x stall speed + 1/2 gust factor for final approach works really well in a Mooney. The trick is to not neglect weight when figuring out what that speed is. In my E it means a final approach speed is anywhere from 72-82mph if I use full flaps.

 

I'm with Immelman on this. With my M20E I was taught 90 MPH on downwind and slow to 80 MPH on final. That results in just a little float while flairing. If I slow it up a bit more to 75 MPH the float goes away and shorter strips (2000 + ft) are possible.  Of course I add a extra speed it I have any reason to suspect gusty conditions. With some of the speeds I see talked about in KTS on final approach, I'm not surprised Mooneys get a rap for being hard to land and floating forever. 

 

At the website 

 

www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/m20e.html

 

the pilot goes over this and recommends 1.2x stall speed at the configuration which gave him 73 MIAS in the M20E he was flying with full flap landing. I'm very careful about airspeed control at those lower speeds and use just under 80 MIAS in larger airports. I think staying over the centerline while floating 1000 ft is harder than making a good short field landing.

 

Dave

[pinerunner]

I was checked out in my M20E by an Air National Guard pilot who flys large cargo planes as his main job. He had all the instructor ratings to take you to ATP if you wanted and had done his early carreer complex time in a Mooney. He was not a Mooney specialist and did not work for a "center". 

 

I think he was one of the better instructors I've had and have no complaints. I don't think of Mooneys as strange planes that require rarified,expert specialist training to fly. I find mine reasonably comparable to the Comanche that I got my first complex time in 35 years ago, but i like the Mooney much better. I'd lump it with other high performance singles and with the laminar-flow wing extra attention to stalls and speed control are required as for the others.

 

Obviously, don't take the leap from a 172 to a Mooney lightly either. 

 

Dave