Continental engine times

[4cornerflyer]

Anyone have recent experience with ordering a Continental factory engine, new or remanufactured? Specifically I wonder about the delivery time frame. They are telling me it is currently about 8 months from order to delivery for an obscene price. Does 8 months mean 8 months, or is it really like two years? 

For those who have done an overhaul elsewhere, are any shops doing them in one calendar season or less? I haven't found much enthusiasm to overhaul the TSIO-360-MB in my 252.

Jon

 

[Ragsf15e]

14 minutes ago, 4cornerflyer said:

Anyone have recent experience with ordering a Continental factory engine, new or remanufactured? Specifically I wonder about the delivery time frame. They are telling me it is currently about 8 months from order to delivery for an obscene price. Does 8 months mean 8 months, or is it really like two years? 

For those who have done an overhaul elsewhere, are any shops doing them in one calendar season or less? I haven't found much enthusiasm to overhaul the TSIO-360-MB in my 252.

Jon

 

Have you checked Western Skyways or any of the other big shops? Mine was overhauled three years ago by Signature engines in Ohio, but that was before I owned the airplane. I will be interested in how you do with your MB engine. I have the same engine on my 252.

[GeeBee]

Talk to Carlus Gann. If I was looking for field overhaul he is one of the few I would use. His engines are superb. His performance engines are beyond comparison.

https://www.gannaviation.com/engine-overhauls

 

[kortopates]

I don’t think you can beat Western Skyways for turnaround time and good quality. If you’re really in a hurry just fly out to them and let them remove and re-install the engine.

If you want the highest quality with boutique services like flow balanced cylinders I don’t think you can beat Lycon. But both expensive and slow.

Time to overhaul though is going to vary by what they find when they do your tear down inspection and what all you ask for.


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[4cornerflyer]

Western Skyways is my closest name engine shop, and I did ask them first. I was told that due to parts availability and pricing for the TSIO-360-MB, they would recommend a factory reman or new engine. I got the same response from a second name shop, and I was told the turnaround time would be 5-6 months at the third name shop which did my overhaul in 2011. When I told Western Skyways the price and timing from the factory and said surely you can beat that, he said he'd get back to me with an estimate.

Jon

[IvanP]

I would be very skeptical about time estimates from Western Skyways. I bought an overhauled IO-360 on exhange from them few years back and the timeline for delivery was nowhere near what they promissed (about 3x longer). The overhauled engine was fine, but the delivery time was not.  

[kortopates]

I would be very skeptical about time estimates from Western Skyways. I bought an overhauled IO-360 on exhange from them few years back and the timeline for delivery was nowhere near what they promissed (about 3x longer). The overhauled engine was fine, but the delivery time was not.  

Post pandemic new Lycoming io-360 cylinders where unobtainable as were some other parts. If that was part of the delay…parts availability is still not back to pre-pandemic levels


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[Scooter]

Again I would recommend American Aircraft Engines. They rebuild all the engines for the civil air patrol. They also rebuilt mine.  Great to work with and fairly quick turnaround time. They do have a website located in Ok.

[IvanP]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Post pandemic new Lycoming io-360 cylinders where unobtainable as were some other parts. If that was part of the delay…parts availability is still not back to pre-pandemic levels


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That was way before pandemic...sometime around 2010 if I recall correctly. I imagine that post-pandemic the situation is lot worse. 

[WilliamR]

I ordered a factory reman'd TSIO-360-sb from Airpower right at 26 mos. ago (a lifetime ago when concerned about supply chain issues). It was promised in 4-6 months and received in about 5. I contacted several overhaul shops including Zephyr, Gann, Western, and Pinnacle to name a few. They were all running about 6 mos. and provided similar warranties as the factory reman. None of the overhaul shops would commit to timing on the accessories, however. Price was also hard to compare. None of the overhaul shops would price out a full kit of accessories which the factory reman provides including exhaust. However, chasing down some accessory costs, I found the difference in price between full kit overhaul and factory reman to be within ~10% of each other. 

I had neither the time or patience to chase around a half dozen accessory sellers/overhaulers.

In my case, I found the market to be very efficient. Sounds like the market really hasn't changed in the last 2 years.

William

 

[natdm]

I got my TSIO-360-LB overhauled at Watson Aero. Started August 2023, finished like 6 months later. Below is what I went with.

Some issues I had: 

1. The oil cap was painted, and didn't have "8 QTS" on it any more. Also didn't fit well, and had some gunk on the underside. Got a new one.
2. There was some goofiness with some spacers that they used a stack of washers for instead, but also returned the spacer..
3. They didn't comply with any SB's that weren't already complied with
4. My shop didn't send the turbocharger in with it, which they were supposed to, so some rods were installed in the incorrect locations and my mechanic made a huge stink about it.
5. One magneto was installed incorrectly, making it hard to time -- needed to re-install it.

Other than that, which they promptly paid for all of it and apologized, they were fantastic. I'd get texts of the engine being torn down, built, ran, etc. The owner actually still calls or texts from time to time to check that I'm doing alright and that I'm happy with the service.

 

Engine Model- TSIO-360-LB

 

Factory New Limits Major Overhaul Price (New CMI OEM Steel Cylinders)-$49,950.00**

 

 

 What our overhauls include

 

 

 Repair/overhaul of:

 

-Crankcase (Line boring/alodining)

-Oil sump 

-Accessory case

-Crankshaft 

-Crankshaft counterweights

-Connecting rods (Weight balanced)

-Gears

-Rocker arms 

-Fuel servo

-Fuel manifold

-Fuel injectors

-Bendix magnetos

-Starter

-Starter adapter

-Oil cooler 

-Oil pump

-Turbocharger

-Turbo overboost valve

 

 

100% Replacement of:

 

-Camshaft

-Camshaft tappets

-All cylinder mounting hardware

-Crankshaft gear bolts

-Camshaft gear bolts

-Camshaft front gear woodruff key

-All crankshaft/connecting rod bearings

-Piston pins/end caps

-Connecting rod bolts/nuts

-NEW Ignition harness

-Spark plugs

-Oil filter

-Oil pressure relief valve spring/plunger

-Intake pipe hoses

-Crankcase through bolts

-Valve cover gaskets are silicone rubber for better sealing

-Oil temperature control valve

-Rocker shafts

-Cylinder drain seals

-Upper deck pressure compression seals

 

 

 

Engines include a 2-year/500-hour warranty (whichever occurs first). 

 

** Price is conditional on the repairability of the crankcase, crankshaft, and other hard, non-consumable parts. Any parts/engine components requiring replacement or more than standard repairs will be added to the final invoice. A 50% down payment is due at the time of engine drop off. Certain AD's/mandatory SB's requiring compliance may be extra. Applicable shipping charges will be added to the final invoice.**

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, WilliamR said:

I ordered a factory reman'd TSIO-360-sb from Airpower right at 26 mos. ago (a lifetime ago when concerned about supply chain issues). It was promised in 4-6 months and received in about 5. I contacted several overhaul shops including Zephyr, Gann, Western, and Pinnacle to name a few. They were all running about 6 mos. and provided similar warranties as the factory reman. None of the overhaul shops would commit to timing on the accessories, however. Price was also hard to compare. None of the overhaul shops would price out a full kit of accessories which the factory reman provides including exhaust. However, chasing down some accessory costs, I found the difference in price between full kit overhaul and factory reman to be within ~10% of each other. 

I had neither the time or patience to chase around a half dozen accessory sellers/overhaulers.

In my case, I found the market to be very efficient. Sounds like the market really hasn't changed in the last 2 years.

William

 

I tend to agree with you about comparing all the accessories between a reman and a field oh.  Also the time and work involved with all the different vendors.  If the airplane is down anyway, I think id want it completely redone… 

Do you remember what a tsio-360mb/sb reman cost back then?

[aviatoreb]

My RAAM overhaul of my TSIO520NB took about 3 months once it got to their shop.  I dont know if they do anything but big bore.

[WilliamR]

6 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I tend to agree with you about comparing all the accessories between a reman and a field oh.  Also the time and work involved with all the different vendors.  If the airplane is down anyway, I think id want it completely redone… 

Do you remember what a tsio-360mb/sb reman cost back then?

$85,224.00 with a core credit of $19,000.00. Delivery charge was ~$1,100.00. My core was accepted. So, no additional $19,000 charge. During that time they would occasionally run specials that they would accept any core in any condition. So, I wasn't really worried Airpower would try to gig me on the core.

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, WilliamR said:

$85,224.00 with a core credit of $19,000.00. Delivery charge was ~$1,100.00. My core was accepted. So, no additional $19,000 charge. During that time they would occasionally run specials that they would accept any core in any condition. So, I wasn't really worried Airpower would try to gig me on the core.

Thanks.  My TSIO-360 mb/sb only has 220 smoh, but that gives me an idea what it will eventually take for me or (hopefully) the next owner.  It’s certainly a chunk of $$ but the 252s are really awesome airplanes.