Cockpit Noise

[jetdriven]

So it seems the 6-cylinder guys have a quiet airplane, and the 4-cylinder guys have noisy lumber wagons    Mine is not for sale

[John Pleisse]

Quote: jetdriven

So it seems the 6-cylinder guys have a quiet airplane, and the 4-cylinder guys have noisy lumber wagons    Mine is not for sale

[fantom]

I've tried the Halo's several times and they're just OK....for me.

My Bose X works fine, keep things quiet, and are comfortable all day long....for me!

Those of you using Bose should consider changing out the ear cups every year or two. They wear out and get dirty. Best $25 you'll ever spend.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/bosexaccess7.php

[Piloto]

If you thought that Mooneys were noisy try flying in Aerostar, you can not hear your own thoughts. Specially when the props are shedding ice, it sounds like a battlefield. Unlike the Barons, Senecas and most light twins where the prop disc is ahead of the cockpit on the Aerostars the prop disc station is right at the cockpit. Just pray you never get a blade or tip separation. And don't even think about opening the door while taxing for cooling off, you may loose your hand.

José

[MooneyMitch]

My lightweight DC's with the Headsets, Inc. ANR modification are quite acceptable to me.  They are not uncomfortable and they do provide excellent attenuation during my flights.

I did purchase a new unused Bose X a few months ago, just to have one.  It is fun to have it and use it, but I don't feel the huge difference between the Bose and the modified DC's. 

With that said, and with my particular experience, I am glad I did not spend the relatively high dollar amount for new Bose headset or for a Zulu2 for that matter.

Obviously, others have different experiences and opinions.  This is just mine. 

[Lood]

I don't get the clamping problem many refer to when using DC's or any other headset for that matter. I just bent mine wider, little bit at a time untill they were comfortable and that's it - no clamping, very compfortable and I can wear them all day long.
+1 for the Headsets Inc. mod.

[nels]

Good info, Jose!

I  also would think a lot of noise may find its way into the cabin via the front nose gear cavity and up the Johnson bar.

I associate the inside of an airplane cockpit with being inside a garbage can that has lots of mechanical stuff hooked on to it as it soars through the air at 150 knots.  I would think almost any dense material firmly attached to the inside of the garbage can's skin would really kill the sound.

[Skywarrior]

Have not tried Bose or Lightspeed ANR headsets yet. Did not want to spend that much money, anyway. So, I bought basic David Clamps (non-ANR). Not great.

My head hit the ceiling when wearing them, unless I slouched so much I had trouble seeing over the glareshield (and it's already hard enough to see over a Bravo's glareshield).

Halos allowed me to finally be able to sit upright without jamming my skull into the headliner.

And, to my pleasant surprise, they are very quiet and I can hear what I am saying very clearly, and incoming intercom and radio transmissions are very clear, too.

Very happy with Halos.

Chuck M.

[jetdriven]

Chuck, did you hear about the 7th hole seat mod?  You get one more notch back before slding the seat all the way back

[jwilkins]

My '80 K has a different sound than my '67 F, but it is still too loud to NOT use a good headset. Originally I thought it was quieter, now I just think it is different. Maybe like more bass, less treble. Maybe it's the 6 cylinder vs four? 

Here's a list of some of the better headsets I've had:

Lightspeed 20XL fantastic price / performance ratio at the time of introduction, still good.  Outstanding customer service. I had one quality issue long after the warrantee had expired; they sent new parts free of charge as "This should not have happened".

Bose X - also good performance. OK comfort for 3 - 4 hours. Panel mount so I don't need batteries. Had two; sold one on Ebay.

Telex Stratus 50D - state of the art at the time of introduction. I bought them just because they had digital signal processing. I couldn't hear a difference bewteen them and the other non-digital ANR headsets, but I don't have perfect hearing, either. Still competitive performance but customer service is absolutely astoundingly poor. Comfort OK but not as good (for me) as Bose or Zulu 2. Also had panel mount, no batteries. Traded these in on the Zulu 2 just because I did  not want to own a Telex product after my last interaction with the customer service department. I got rid of them before they needed serice again. 

Lightspeed Zulu 2. Fantastic performance. Excellent customer service; they actually get back to you quickly and make every effort to resolve your concerns. Comfortable. My favorite over the ear headset so far.

OK so these are all over-the-ear ANR headsets. With ALL of them you should periodically replace the ear pads. They seem to get stiffer after a year or so which degrades comfort and performance. The two biggest issues are the weight and clamping pressure give some people (like my wife) a headache after a couple hours, AND, frequently IGNORED, if you wear glasses or sun glasses the temples break the seal between the ear pads and your head, which seriously degrades the performance. I bought special 'flying glasses' with very thin titanium spring wire temples that sit close to my head and won't create an opening for the seal. I think this gets frequently overlooked when comparing headset performance. They can't work right if they don't seal. Too much hair can also produce a poor seal. However, I certainly don't need to worry about that.

Now, for the winner: Ta Da:

Quiet Technologies Halo in the ear headset. Not an ANR but perfomance rivals the best over the ear ANRs I have used, and more comfortable for me.

Quieter than even my Zulu 2 (remember, I do wear glasses). So light I sometimes forget I am wearing a headset. Makes the Oxygen on/off easy.  I can change glasses without ditching the headset. My only 'con' is that it takes 15 or 20 seconds to put these on after a little practice.  On real short hops I'll use the Bose, on any real trips this is my headset of choice. Bonus: cost less than a good ANR over the ear headset.

My Zulu 2 are the best over the ear headsets I have ever used. I give them to my right seat passenger because I want them to enjoy flying with me (as much as possible).

The old Light Speed 20XL still work fine and I keep them as both a backup and backseat PX set.

The Halo set is mine. No one else gets to use them. The Bose I keep for short hops, and, as only the pilot intercom has the panel wired Lemo jack I'm the only one using these, too. I wouldn't care if anyone else wanted them, but I've got the only place they plug into in the plane.

I sold the second Bose set after getting it repaired because I don't need two panel mount sets. I traded in the Telex on the Zulu 2 just to get rid then before I had to deal with Telex again.

OK, now the disclaimers so the other manufacturer supporters don't get upset: This is MY experience only. I'm not conducting a survey, sample size is ONE person. You will find people who disagree and have different opinions based on different experiences. Everyone is welcome to their own opinions, these are just mine only. If you don't like my opinions please exercise your right to ignore them.

When I was younger I spent my weekends shooting silhouettes with a .44 mag and ocassionally running a bull dozer and skidsteer loader for fun at home. My hearing suffered. I know many old pilots who never wore headsets and are very hearing impaired, more than I am... I think airplanes are worse for hearing impairment than shooting and diesel dozers.  Get a good noise reduction headset, not just for the comfort but because it may mitigate hearing damage. I never thought it mattered but now I wish I had worn hearing protection.

I also wish I had bought Apple stock at the IPO.

Jim

 

[aviatoreb]

Quote: jetdriven

Chuck, did you hear about the 7th hole seat mod?  You get one more notch back before slding the seat all the way back

[Nukemzzz]

95db! That’s what my Apple Watch just measured on my trip today when I brought my, new to me, 66’ M20e home on a 4.5hr trip.
 

That’s bonkers. It’s criminal. No way it was this loud new...No pilot that owned a Mooney in the sixties would still have hearing in the 70’s. 

It was unbearably loud even with a head set on. Yes, I know noise cancelling will fix it for me. But that’s not a good solution for a 5yr old and 6month old honestly. No way I can take a toddler up in something that is louder than a jumbo jet engine. 

Ill have to try and seal it up and put some sound deadening in the spring.  There isn’t a door seal currently. So that’s likely not helping.  Honestly the noise seems to be low frequency. Some is clearly engine and prop pulsing. I also think there is droning like when one car window is open...hmm...the POH specifically mentions not to open the cabin roof vent scope too much or you’ll have interior buffeting....I've not found those controls yet. Lol
 

The turbo cardinal I flew down to get the Mooney with was at 87db by the way. That’s a huge difference as the dB scale isn’t linear. 
 

anyone else taken readings? 

[MB65E]

Hi Nuke!! We’ve documented several owners with equally loud results in another thread this past fall. Mine is 97db in cruise on my 65E. I’m planning on installing some foam/aluminum sheets to the firewall at some point. 
edit: 99db in cruise!!! 
-Matt

[carusoam]

I would have thrown the fancy watch out the little window... 

When many of our planes were new... many people were still flying in open cockpits... 

When they stopped flying... they stopped for a cigarette break...

They drove to the airport in a fancy new car... with something other than... 

• radial tires...
• disc brakes...
• tires that last 50k miles...
• seatbelts with shoulder harnesses
• plastic squishy dashboards
• airbags
• Safety glass
• 5mph bumpers
• Fancy head rests and other safety features...

There are plenty of sources for sound energy entering the cockpit...

Most of it is up front, and drops off quite rapidly over distance to the back seats...

Wait a few years and watch what your kids will put in their ears... a few pieces of metal, some loud music, it will be great!

Osha seems to set the limit of sound levels... and they talk about exposure time... often a 40hour work week...

I’m pretty old, so the hearing protection for kids 20years ago didn’t exist in small sizes... today, you can get noise protection for various sizes and get some for your dog too... 

As Matt points out above... there is plenty of sound deadening materials that can be used... works as insulation as well... pics everywhere of MSers installing it...

There are also thicker windows and a method of installing them around here...

You can always buy a newer Mooney, or upgrade the one you have...

Complaining about sound levels of a plane built several decades ago.... isn’t very cool...  back in the day they didn’t have seatbelts to keep your face from meeting the instrument panel...

Their idea of navigating was a single VOR...

Good thing you kept the Iwatch... the more you know, the more you can work with...

There are so many avenues of upgrading your ride... enjoy the voyage... it is a long one!

Use caution with using words like criminal... somebody will force you to upgrade something you don’t have resources for...

In Europe they have sound rules... want to be forced into buying a new prop?  Take a look at what it cost to get a new MT prop just to have a better exterior sound level...

Go long body! Better sealed cabin... longer distance to the noise maker... way better insulation / sound deadening everywhere...

How many hours of exposure do you think you can get this year?

If you get 40hours every week... sore ears probably won’t be your biggest challenge...  

I think people call this a first world challenge...

Sorry, I forgot... what we’re you asking about? This thread is so ancient...   

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, Nukemzzz said:

95db! That’s what my Apple Watch just measured on my trip today when I brought my, new to me, 66’ M20e home on a 4.5hr trip.
 

That’s bonkers. It’s criminal. No way it was this loud new...No pilot that owned a Mooney in the sixties would still have hearing in the 70’s. 

It was unbearably loud even with a head set on. Yes, I know noise cancelling will fix it for me. But that’s not a good solution for a 5yr old and 6month old honestly. No way I can take a toddler up in something that is louder than a jumbo jet engine. 

Ill have to try and seal it up and put some sound deadening in the spring.  There isn’t a door seal currently. So that’s likely not helping.  Honestly the noise seems to be low frequency. Some is clearly engine and prop pulsing. I also think there is droning like when one car window is open...hmm...the POH specifically mentions not to open the cabin roof vent scope too much or you’ll have interior buffeting....I've not found those controls yet. Lol
 

The turbo cardinal I flew down to get the Mooney with was at 87db by the way. That’s a huge difference as the dB scale isn’t linear. 
 

anyone else taken readings? 

There is no door seal at all? I would replace that for the noise and to help keep out CO. 

[Prior owner]

In my limited experience with the Mooney, a leaking door seal is a huge source of noise...I cannot imagine how loud it might be with no door seal at all!

[Marauder]

In my limited experience with the Mooney, a leaking door seal is a huge source of noise...I cannot imagine how loud it might be with no door seal at all!

The door seal certainly adds to the ambience of a Mooney cockpit. I think on the older Mooneys, a 201 windshield helps a lot. I have flown in a couple of F models with the original windows and they are considerably more noisy than my F with the 201 windshield.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[EricJ]

12 hours ago, Nukemzzz said:

That’s bonkers. It’s criminal. No way it was this loud new...No pilot that owned a Mooney in the sixties would still have hearing in the 70’s. 

What?

 

[Skates97]

12 hours ago, Nukemzzz said:

That’s bonkers. It’s criminal. No way it was this loud new...No pilot that owned a Mooney in the sixties would still have hearing in the 70’s. 

There isn’t a door seal currently. So that’s likely not helping. 

 

12 minutes ago, EricJ said:

What?

My guess is that it had a door seal when it was new...

[ArtVandelay]

12 hours ago, Nukemzzz said:

95db! That’s what my Apple Watch just measured on my trip today when I brought my, new to me, 66’ M20e home on a 4.5hr trip.
 

That’s bonkers. It’s criminal. No way it was this loud new...No pilot that owned a Mooney in the sixties would still have hearing in the 70’s. 

It was unbearably loud even with a head set on. Yes, I know noise cancelling will fix it for me. But that’s not a good solution for a 5yr old and 6month old honestly. No way I can take a toddler up in something that is louder than a jumbo jet engine. 

Ill have to try and seal it up and put some sound deadening in the spring.  There isn’t a door seal currently. So that’s likely not helping.  Honestly the noise seems to be low frequency. Some is clearly engine and prop pulsing. I also think there is droning like when one car window is open...hmm...the POH specifically mentions not to open the cabin roof vent scope too much or you’ll have interior buffeting....I've not found those controls yet. Lol
 

The turbo cardinal I flew down to get the Mooney with was at 87db by the way. That’s a huge difference as the dB scale isn’t linear. 
 

anyone else taken readings? 

95 to 99 is about right. Try lowering your RPMs and flying higher. Take off the watch, take readings at different spots, I’m guessing the windshield will be the loudest. Check vent, door, etc for loud spots.

[Nukemzzz]

6 hours ago, EricJ said:

What?

 

My point is that it’s likely worse now than when new. Gaps and leaks and worn out vibration damping features. With the headset off it sounds like a jackhammer. Loudest thing I’ve even been behind the wheel of and I’ve been in a lot of private planes. 

[EricJ]

15 minutes ago, Nukemzzz said:

My point is that it’s likely worse now than when new. Gaps and leaks and worn out vibration damping features. With the headset off it sounds like a jackhammer. Loudest thing I’ve even been behind the wheel of and I’ve been in a lot of private planes. 

Sorry, the "What?" was a joke about lost hearing, which many aviators experience over time.    Should've included the smiley. 

 

[Gagarin]

If you think Mooneys are noisy try having a brain scan in an MRI machine. I found that earplugs together with headsets dampen a lot of the noise.

[DXB]

9 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

The door seal certainly adds to the ambience of a Mooney cockpit. I think on the older Mooneys, a 201 windshield helps a lot. I have flown in a couple of F models with the original windows and they are considerably more noisy than my F with the 201 windshield.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

Reduced cabin noise, not speed, was the major benefit I noted from my 201 windshield install.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Gagarin said:

If you think Mooneys are noisy try having a brain scan in an MRI machine. I found that earplugs together with headsets dampen a lot of the noise.

I agree. When they fed me in head-first to check my shoulder, the ear plugs I was given weren't up to the task . . . . .

Replace the door seal. Check around rudder pedals. Look for other leaks.