Re-fueling - What do you use for ground?

[Paul Thomas]

I'm unfortunately grounded for a while (pro-tip: don't fall off a ladder) so I'm been doing some chair flying. I've always used the exhaust as a grounding point to refuel my Mooney but it doesn't look to be a good idea. What do you all use?

[PeteMc]

I've always used my non painted tie down, just like he does.  

VERY important point he made that you DO NOT want to skip over.  He talked about touching the fuel nozzle to the plane if there is no grounding wire.  But, as he said, you DO NOT want to touch near the open fuel tank neck without getting rid of static charge first.  That's where all the fuel fumes are!    

[toto]

I always use the exhaust. This is all news to me. 

[Rwsavory]

Exhaust.  There are 1,000 more important things to worry about. 

[ArtVandelay]

I’ve never had a spark when connecting the ground wire. And if you do first, as prompted, there’s no gas fumes to worry about.

[GeeBee]

RE: Touching the nozzle to the aircraft as recommended by the video.. Yes that creates zero potential at that time. However, the act of pumping fuel through a hose creates a static charge so touching the nozzle against the aircraft before fueling is almost worthless.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

If you use a fuel hose with a yellow stripe on it, then the fuel nozzle is grounded. So after discharging the nozzle to the aircraft, you are good to go if you keep the nozzle in contact with the aircraft.

https://www.parker.com/literature/Industrial Hose Products/IHP Literature PDF files/IHP Product Catalogs/CAT 4815 Gold Label Aircraft Fueling Hose.pdf

See page 12. It says that the hose assemblies are tested for electrical conductivity.

[GeeBee]

Have not seen gold stripe except in air carrier ops or really expensive FBOs.

[AndreiC]

The instructor who did my Mooney transition training (ex-official Mooney factory instructor) advised me to use the round hole of the front landing gear to attach the ground, and I've been doing this ever since. (I mean the sides of the hole where you insert the towbar into the front gear.)

[bigmo]

I was line service all through college (frankly my favorite job of all time lol). I always volunteered for fuel as I just like the time by myself. I’ve probably fueled 20k planes??? It’s not complicated. Unpainted metal. For me exhaust. Getting down to some unpainted part of the nose gear leads to prop contact.

 None of our hoses had stripes but all were grounded in the rubber. And agree, the risk of not being properly bonded comes while pumping.

This falls under the “things I don’t worry about ever” category.

[N201MKTurbo]

FWIW, I always ground to the tiedown loop.

[N201MKTurbo]

18 minutes ago, bigmo said:

I was line service all through college (frankly my favorite job of all time lol). I always volunteered for fuel as I just like the time by myself. I’ve probably fueled 20k planes??? It’s not complicated. Unpainted metal. For me exhaust. Getting down to some unpainted part of the nose gear leads to prop contact.

 None of our hoses had stripes but all were grounded in the rubber. And agree, the risk of not being properly bonded comes while pumping.

This falls under the “things I don’t worry about ever” category.

If anybody was going to blow up a plane, it would be you. So I'm listening to you.

[N201MKTurbo]

Has anybody personally seen a fuel fire from static? No hearsay.

[GeeBee]

3 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Has anybody personally seen a fuel fire from static? No hearsay.

Yes. Me, but not on an airplane but refueling a fuel can. 

[PT20J]

1 minute ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Has anybody personally seen a fuel fire from static? No hearsay.

I saw the result at Lake Hood strip in Anchorage years ago. But the person was fueling a C-180 from cans filtered through a funnel and chamois. I think the funnel and cans may have been plastic.  Most of the airplane was reduced to powdery ash. I think the guy got away with minor burns. 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, PT20J said:

I saw the result at Lake Hood strip in Anchorage years ago. But the person was fueling a C-180 from cans filtered through a funnel and chamois. I think the funnel and cans may have been plastic.  Most of the airplane was reduced to powdery ash. I think the guy got away with minor burns. 

Sure, this guy was doing everything wrong. I was thinking of fueling from a pump or truck.

[N201MKTurbo]

8 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Yes. Me, but not on an airplane but refueling a fuel can. 

That must have been scarry!

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

Have not seen gold stripe except in air carrier ops or really expensive FBOs.

The self-serve pump at my field has it.

[Will.iam]

Thanks for the video. I’m wondering why the exhaust is not more grounded. What does it have that is restricting electron flow?  Out of curiosity now i have to go ohm my exhaust as I’m curious if a turbo exhaust is any better grounded than a normal aspirated exhaust. I used to use my tow tube on the front landing gear but was afraid it was damaging the paint on the outside part of the tube. Once verified my tie-downs are grounded i guess tgat will be the new attach point for me. 

[PT20J]

I always use the tie down mostly because it's often the shortest distance to the ground wire reel. 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

I always use the tie down mostly because it's often the shortest distance to the ground wire reel. 

And it is the lowest impedance path to the fuel tank. At least on the side you hook it to.

[GeeBee]

6 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

That must have been scarry!

To give the full story, I had just bought a truck with one of those "new at the time bed liners" in 1979. I had a metal jerry can in the back and I did not take it out but refueled where it set. To this day I remember the spark that triggered it as I pushed the nozzle into the opening. It was a split second enough for me to jump back so only my eyebrows were singed. I was able to quickly extinguish the fire with the extinguisher near the pump. The fire department had already dispatched. After the incident, I got a call from the NFPA in New York who interviewed me and said "these new bed liners are a problem" in that they insulate the can from the vehicle. It is why you see now stickers on fuel pumps advising you to put the can on the ground before filling. 

I switched to safety cans now with internal flash arresters. I never use anything plastic in handling fuel and I don't have a plastic bed liner (LineX is much better anyway). I hear that plastic bed liners have carbon in them help solve the grounding problem but I would not trust it.

Amazingly my boat has a 100 gallon poly tank in it. It does have a ground lug and the experience of poly tanks in boats is excellent but it still makes me wonder.  

[201er]

Anyone care to repeat the experiment on a Mooney?

[N201MKTurbo]

41 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

To give the full story, I had just bought a truck with one of those "new at the time bed liners" in 1979. I had a metal jerry can in the back and I did not take it out but refueled where it set. To this day I remember the spark that triggered it as I pushed the nozzle into the opening. It was a split second enough for me to jump back so only my eyebrows were singed. I was able to quickly extinguish the fire with the extinguisher near the pump. The fire department had already dispatched. After the incident, I got a call from the NFPA in New York who interviewed me and said "these new bed liners are a problem" in that they insulate the can from the vehicle. It is why you see now stickers on fuel pumps advising you to put the can on the ground before filling. 

I switched to safety cans now with internal flash arresters. I never use anything plastic in handling fuel and I don't have a plastic bed liner (LineX is much better anyway). I hear that plastic bed liners have carbon in them help solve the grounding problem but I would not trust it.

Amazingly my boat has a 100 gallon poly tank in it. It does have a ground lug and the experience of poly tanks in boats is excellent but it still makes me wonder.  

I have heard about the bed liner issue and have seen the warnings. It’s crazy that you were one of the first victims of the bed liner. Glad to hear you weren’t seriously hurt.

[ragedracer1977]

I’m trying to comprehend how this is possible (no continuity). The exhaust is bolted to the engine.

 I’m gonna have to test mine and random ramp derelicts

i really feel like this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about (it’s not grounding he wants, it’s bonding.  And the exhaust should absolutely be bonded to the airframe, if the engine is.  
 

wheres @EricJ?

Edited Saturday at 12:14 AM by ragedracer1977