Foreflight logbook review

[jsgro]

I have recently been searching for a good electronic logbook to use instead of hassling with my very messy paper logbook. I also felt having an electronic logbook would be an added layer of protection in case my paper one is lost or destroyed. I know there are many free versions out there that still "get the job done" but I wanted to choose something a bit more professional looking. When it comes down to it the simplest solution for an electronic logbook would to just create an excel spreadsheet and upload that to google drive or some other cloud service. During my search I briefly tried LogTen and another small provider that I cant remember which I liked but kept having trouble with cloud sync (which kind of defeated the purpose of electronic logbook imo). Earlier this year Foreflight released their version and since I hadn't 100% committed to any provider yet I decided to give it a shot. I already use foreflight pro for work so it seemed like a no-brainer. Over the last couple weeks of using it I have tried to build a list of things I liked and disliked about it. Thought I would share with you some of those thoughts later in the comments session.

I would also like to add before I start that I am no expert on ForeFlight so if you have a fix for something I complained about then share 

[Paul Thomas]

I like paper logbooks and have not been inclined to switch. My CFI uses www.myflightbook.com. It's the only eLogbook that I've seen that I liked.

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, jsgro said:

Earlier this year Foreflight released their version

Foreflight added their logbook to the EFB app 8 years ago, in 2016.

I've been using MyFlightBook for 18 years and am very happy with it. FWIW, some history (it's a cut an paste):

I've been using an electronic logbook since the mid-1990s. Originally as backup to paper without arithmetic errors.  I began using MyFlightBook in 2006 and stopped logging on paper for myself in 2013. I continued to use my paper logbook for CFI signatures - endorsements and dual received. In 2016, I stopped doing even that unless the instructor had some issue with signing electronically. Some people acclimate more easily than others and I'm not a zealot about it. My last paper logbook entry was in July, 2019.

MyFlightBook It is now my only logbook. You can download your entire logbook manually whenever you want. Pay a small donationware annual fee and you can get automatic daily downloads to the cloud of your choice. I also do a periodic pdf printout from the site (which really looks great - the photo is intentionally blurred. The large entry indicates that entry was signed digitally). Optional but that all means multiple backups - theirs and yours - making it more secure from risk of loss than paper.

The downside of electronic logs is still in the signature area. Current technology - can't backup digital signatures - that entry is not a digital signature; just an indication that the entry was digitally signed). But that's true of paper logbooks as well, so I don't see a net difference. 

I've also been a Foreflight user for over 13 years. The only think I use the Foreflight logbook for is signing dual and endorsements for students/client who use it. Why didn't I switch? Two main reasons:

• I had been happily using MFB for 6 years before Foreflight even existed (and 10 before they added a logbook).
• As much as I like Foreflight, I do not want to feel tied to any particular EFB. 

I also personally think the FF logbook add-on is not as good as this dedicated one, but that's just personal preference.

[Schllc]

ForeFlight logbook is fully portable and printable. You can retain it after you no longer subscribe. It definitely makes checkrides a whole lot easier. 

[Rick Junkin]

I've used Foreflight from its inception and entered all of my historical flight data into the Foreflight logbook when they added that function. I find it extremely easy to use with its auto-logging from the track log, requiring me only to enter the specifics like PIC time, instrument time, approaches, etc. I really like the search and sorting capabilities, and the reports and top level logbook page data make filling out my annual insurance paperwork a breeze. The import/export capability has been useful as well. As an instructor I also like the built in endorsement and signature capability for log entries for clients who also use Foreflight. I created custom fields to track things that are not required but interesting to me, like formation time.

I used myflightbook.com for a bit before the Foreflight solution became available and liked it. I chose to transition to the Foreflight logbook for the simplicity of automated logging and having everything in a single package.

[jsgro]

The Good

By FAR my favorite part of having my electronic logbook with ForeFlight is the consolidation. I now can take recorded flights or flight plans and import them directly to my logbook. After a few adjustments to maybe aircraft specifications (which it will remember later) or the type of time I can put approve and go. I do have some small grievances with this feature that Ill touch on later. LogTen does have a similar features with the ability to locate you via the device you're using but like I said, consolidation. Being able to do that without changing programs is a plus for me. It is likely not much of a plus for the ATP crowd because they don't have a need for Foreflight. With how the Foreflight team has made it part of the PRO subscription it doesn't seem like pilots flying at the level are really the target audience of Foreflight yet.

The logbook does offer several different options for dividing up the time that you have in their Experience reports. Between ASEL and AMEL or between types of engines. It does show you how much you have of PIC in each of those categories too. All of these are nice things but I think we can agree its expected for a product like this to have these kinds of things.

I also enjoy how they have a certain "catalog" for options when inputing different items such as Approach type and being able to "tag" flights as things like checkride IPC or otherwise. That does make things a lot easier for choosing things.

There are several other small things that I really like but I wont go over them one by one I just wanted to emphasize some things I liked..

Overall I feel like it satisfies the major requirements in order to be a good competitor in the electronic logbook market. Things like having lots of options while filling out log entries and being able to add certifications are things that I expected from this and it completely fulfilled them. That being said I don't think they are utilizing their full potential so I do have some suggestions.

[jsgro]

Things To Improve

There are a lot of good things about the logbook but there are a lot of things that can be improved too.

One of my major annoyances right now is the inability to filter flights in the logbook entry screen. I think it would be helpful to be able to select the custom date range (currently there is a set date range of All, 7 days, 30 days, 90 days, 6 months, and 12 months) and maybe some other parameters like hours or location. I can do it if I export my data and open it in excel but that kind of defeats the purpose haha.

I thought this would be something in the foreflight web app at the very least but it isn't :(. Foreflight is still in beta currently though so maybe they will add some things to it for the logbook.

I also would like to print out all of my flights. I like the experience report. Its very sleek looking and breaks time down very well but I feel like I should have the ability to print out the flights line by line over a chosen date range or for one airplane type or different parameters in order to have a paper version or a very specific electronic summary report.

One of the smaller features I would like to see added to the logbook is the ability to auto fill forms like 8710 and other applications. This feature is kind of only for those who are going through their training because its quite a pain to put all that info into IACRA every time and double check it. I had emailed them about it awhile back and they replied that it was "on their radar".

I did mention earlier that the consolidation was my favorite thing about flying with ForeFlight and it is a plus but there a few things that would make it better. One thing that I noticed was that if I build a flight plan with an instrument approach in it and then hit "send to logbook" it wont recognize the approach. I don't know if that is user error or just an oversight but that could definitely help with streamlining this feature. Along with this I wish the record feature would suggest more input options when making the logbook entry. Maybe suggesting airports for the "route" portion (it already does this for the "to" portion of the entry") or maybe number of landings. Right not it seems to only be geared for those A to B flights (which isn't bad)

Also, why don't the aircraft I input into my logbook also enter into my aircraft selection when creating a flight plan?

 

[exM20K]

I have used ForeFlight logbook for many years after switching from another IOS solution. I find it very satisfactory and appreciate the auto-logging and track imports.

Tax reporting is a breeze with an excel download and some straightforward data transformations. For me, that is a much more effective way of processing or rolling up flight data..  I hope they do not lard it up with custom filtering and 8710-type reporting which is not meaningful to the vast majority of users, and i've seen plenty of software solution fail by losing the focus on what they do and instead trying to please everybody. chasing shiny things can kill your business.

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

Since the early 90s I was using a logbook app I developed myself. It was written in Delphi using DBISAM database. Although it was still working great, but getting hard to maintain. So I decided to export it and import it into ForeFlight. It only took a few minutes to import 35 years of flying after spending about 8 hours finding ancient DB tools and curating the export CSV files. But it is all in there now.

The bulk of my hours were flown doing repeat trips. I wrote the log book app because I wanted a list of flights. I would just enter a date and select a flight from a list. Nobody would let you do that. I don't think ForeFlight will, but I haven't tried either.

[dzeleski]

45 minutes ago, jsgro said:

 

One of my major annoyances right now is the inability to filter flights in the logbook entry screen. I think it would be helpful to be able to select the custom date range (currently there is a set date range of All, 7 days, 30 days, 90 days, 6 months, and 12 months) and maybe some other parameters like hours or location. I can do it if I export my data and open it in excel but that kind of defeats the purpose haha.

 

Click into any of those categories and then click the center filter button at the top, you can filter on many things once you do that.

[dzeleski]

49 minutes ago, jsgro said:

I also would like to print out all of my flights. I like the experience report. Its very sleek looking and breaks time down very well but I feel like I should have the ability to print out the flights line by line over a chosen date range or for one airplane type or different parameters in order to have a paper version or a very specific electronic summary report.

You can do this as well by clicking any of the reports and clicking the center box that starts out saying “all time” you can then filter that report generation based on a date range. One of either the condensed log book or complete log book should do that for you. You can then press the share button at the top right and print from there.

[PeteMc]

9 hours ago, jsgro said:

Earlier this year Foreflight released their version

FF is always updating their Logbook.  But I don't know of any major change that would make it "new" in the past year or so.  Do you remember where you read/heard this?

 

[Pinecone]

I use Safelog Pro.  It is a subscription, but it works very well.

In my case, a prime mover in selecting it was that they could convert my old log files from AeroLog Pro to their format.  So I would not have to enter a LOT of flights again.  I had been running AeroLog Pro since the early 90s.  It is still around, but very dated.

One thing I like is that my logbook is saved on the cloud (in their servers), plus on my desktop, my laptop, my phone, and two iPads (regular and Mini).   Unlikely to lose it all.  I also export it in PDF and CSV a couple of times per year. 

I run both paper and electronic logbooks.  Belt and suspenders.  I lost my previous paper log book in a crash and fire.  Paper was my primary logbook.  Later I found that I was about 2 years behind on entering flights into my electronic log book.  So most of that time was lost.  I was able to recreate some of it.  I also misplaced my original logbook, so missing things like first solo date and other early milestones.

[dkkim73]

The PIREPs above are timely. If you all will forgive my revisiting this, I would like to seek any further opinions or advice. 

With the Foreflight price hike, software staff reductions/outsourcing, and PE ownership, I've been looking hard to other options. Used Garmin Pilot enough last year to see it as viable. My Foreflight subscription ended a couple weeks ago, and I've flown with GP only a few times. There are suboptimalities and there are nice things. One forum member was sharing with me he threw in the towel with some recent GP reliability issues, and I've seen some glitches. Still TBD. I also have a Sentry that I miss getting backup logs from, though I am manually importing from the G1000 periodically and GP also logs tracks from the iPad via the 345R. 

Anyhow...

This whole thing made me realize I'd become a bit complacent and captured by Foreflight's logging system. I agree that the tie-in to flight tracks, review, auto-fill are great in FF. I do quibble with the times, but that's more a function of how to log startup/taxi etc which isn't really FF's fault but I am trying to be compulsive about logging (I think an effective block time with continued manual review might be best). It's still a convenient way to log.

I think I need to bite the bullet and have a logging system that is separate and a superset of any EFB I use. I also will get my old logs (only about 300 hrs worth) into the eventual system. 

I imported a large section of recent flights into both MyFlightBook and Safelog. They are both pretty darn impressive, both in features and in their concept and the "systems" they represent (people, companies, support, mobile apps, etc). MFB has the enormous advantage of being largely "open" and the prime developer is a welcome blast from the past in terms of tech and attitude. Safelog is a serious professional product and overkill for a private pilot, but has the advantage of paid support, etc. MFB is $0+donation (which I would make) and Salelog is $69/yr. Both required a bit of data massage, oddly Safelog a bit more. 

I see people here use all of these products. Any further thoughts on "gotchas", esp. moving between systems?

For the near-term I will probably soon choose one, and then:

- complete (as needed) my FF import

- incrementally add exports from GP, and eventually from whichever EFB(s) I use. And try the dedicated logging apps though I agree one product is best for in-plane use. I can always use the mobile apps to "tweak" things as needed. 

- backfill from the paper logs (any system works here)

Thanks for any advice! 

 

[Max Clark]

Let me start by addressing the elephant.

1. Just because a company is purchased doesn't mean that it's now, or will be in the near future a pile of dung. The same is true for companies that stay independent, go public, etc... FF being sold/bought by Thoma Bravo doesn't guarantee that it's going to fail, just like when Boeing bout FF in 2019 didn't kill the business. Yes there's plenty of PE that exists to suck all of the cash out of the business and flush it, but similar to Berkshire Hathaway I haven't seen any evidence or history with TB to suggest this is guaranteed to happen.

2. The same can be said about layoffs. As uncomfortable as it is to accept: a) companies get bloated, and b) change future priorities. It sucks, but the alternative is actually worse. This is dirty secret in corporate America - that a double digit percentage of headcount optimization can be done at any time and it typically doesn't negatively impact the business.

To the thread topic, and @dkkim73's question. Tool selection is a combination of features, price, and adoption. Is it annoying that FF prices have gone up - absolutely. But compared to what I'm paying Garmin annually for my avionics it's really not that bad. Also considering how often I'm in the app, checking weather, building/filing plans, etc... I can justify the price for the features I get. What people don't talk about is just how integrated FF is with most of the flying community. All of my CFIs use it and having a simple, digitally native way to get electronic signatures on training flights and endorsements has made my life so much better.

I'm a huge fan of competition. GP's launch of dynamic procedures really captured my attention. It also seems to have caught FF off guard and they rushed out a quick response (which is getting better and more GP like). The few times I have used GP it didn't provide me with enough of the trifecta to move off of FF before my renewal this month. Well see where things are in 11 months. Maybe GP moves ahead, maybe their pricing bundle with my Avionics makes it worth it, maybe FF continues to get better. Time will tell. But whatever happens will be weighed against the effort of moving my life out of FF and GP - inertia is a real force.

What I don't see doing is splitting my logbook out of my EFB. Why increase the work I have to do and add a second app & subscription into the mix? If I wasn't flying with an EFB then sure, I could see going to a logbook only system for cost. But the second you subscribe to an EFB you should probably go all in. Similar with switching - pick a date with an easy calendar boundary, export, import and don't look back.

 

 

[hammdo]

Not being snarky, but GP has smart charts, FF has dynamic procedures. Just an FYI. I have both an I really like the features in both (Smart Charts are worth it to me) and find I don’t need Jeppesen chart subscription in FF now..

-Don

[midlifeflyer]

13 hours ago, hammdo said:

Not being snarky, but GP has smart charts, FF has dynamic procedures. Just an FYI. I have both an I really like the features in both (Smart Charts are with it to me) and find I don’t need Jeppesen chart subscription in FF now..

-Don

I have both too and feel the same way, although I tend to like FF a little more for planning and GP a little more in flight. I’m trying to build my planning skills in GP more to bring them even. 

[Fly Boomer]

20 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

Thanks for any advice! 

 

[dkkim73]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

 

Oh, you fly in the ointment, you... Haven't you figured out what a paranoid I am by now?? I already do this as well. 

 

[Rick Junkin]

2 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

I have both too and feel the same way, although I tend to like FF a little more for planning and GP a little more in flight. I’m trying to build my planning skills in GP more to bring them even. 

There are a LOT of things about GP that I really like. SmartCharts and the way NOTAMS are presented top the list, along with seamless integration and operation with my panel. But the show stopper was the lack of reliable, consistent performance of the app I experienced. There may be a way to overcome this, but after a month and a half I've run out of patience trying to find it.

I went "cold turkey" on Foreflight the first of the year and used only Garmin Pilot since then, up until a couple of days ago. This gave me the opportunity to make myself learn how to get everything I needed out of Garmin Pilot for both planning and flight. I ran into a number of things that I was able to overcome and either make work or accept and get used to the Garmin way. But the thing that finally turned me away was the inconsistency of the app performance between my iPhone and two iPads. This was on top of excessive nav data download times and several instances of the app freezing on me, along with the way GP had to be monitored before shutdown to verify it captured recorded flight data from my panel.

I had to build a performance profile for my Bravo in Garmin Pilot and that took a considerable effort. Once I had it built I was able to validate it against the Foreflight profile I have been using for years. The problem I had was the performance profile wouldn't stay synced between the three devices I use. I was able to get them all synced once, but then when I went back to use each device one of them would have lost the profile. I had to go through gyrations of sending the profile from another device to get it to sync, only to have it lose it again. That uncertainty is not acceptable to me.

The GP interface with fltplan.com was also a bit of an enigma for me and may have been the source of some of my problems, I don't really know. Even when two of the devices were synced, the flight planning output data was not equivalent. The ETEs would differ by a few minutes and fuel required would vary. Not by a lot, but why would they be different at all? I tried disabling the link to fltplan.com with no observable change. The concept of jumping between GP and fltplan.com for detailed info is kind of clunky. If Garmin was able to transparently pull the data from fltplan.com into GP and present it within the GP app it would be an improvement.

I'm not ruling out user error. I did my best to resolve the issues I experienced and reached the point where I was done trying. I know there are folks who are using GP with great success, and I was trying hard to be one of them. I contacted Garmin Support and asked if they would create an organic profile for the M20M and sent the POH as they requested. If that comes to be, I may give it another try.

22 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

I think I need to bite the bullet and have a logging system that is separate and a superset of any EFB I use. I also will get my old logs (only about 300 hrs worth) into the eventual system.

 

22 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

Thanks for any advice! 

As for logbooks, my outlook is pragmatic to my use case. I log flights and events to meet regulatory requirements as a PIC and a CFI. That's all I need an electronic logbook to do, along with being able to generate periodic backups. I like the new(er) Foreflight logbook feature that automatically generates a PDF of the entire logbook every month. Garmin Pilot allows you to do something similar, but I don't think it's automatic. I used MyFlightBook for a number of years and found I didn't need or use most of the features it offered. The good news is that just about every electronic logbook allows you to export a CSV file you can import into most other contemporary logbook apps/programs or simply open in a spreadsheet. So selection of a logbook tool isn't a permanent commitment. From my perspective, the simplest tool (to use and reference) that meets my needs is the best tool. Both the Foreflight and Garmin Pilot logbooks fit that requirement, and then some.

[midlifeflyer]

3 hours ago, Rick Junkin said:

he GP interface with fltplan.com was also a bit of an enigma for me and may have been the source of some of my problems, I don't really know.

I think the primary reason Garmin purchased fltplan.com was the latter's corporate and non-dispatcher Part 135 base, something Foreflight was courting. While it was superior in the pre-EFB era, unless you are using Fltplan.com for flight plan planning and filing, or its paid eApis or PDC services, or have preexisting pilot and aircraft profiles you want to use in Pilot, I'm not sure if there is any benefit to linking the accounts. 

[Rick Junkin]

9 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

I think the primary reason Garmin purchased fltplan.com was the latter's corporate and non-dispatcher Part 135 base, something Foreflight was courting. While it was superior in the pre-EFB era, unless you are using Fltplan.com for flight plan planning and filing, or its paid eApis or PDC services, or have preexisting pilot and aircraft profiles you want to use in Pilot, I'm not sure if there is any benefit to linking the accounts. 

Thanks Mark, that helps me. I tried to find something on the internet that would tell me the benefit of using FltPlan.com vs Leidos in GP and didn’t find anything that was as illuminating as what you just shared. I think creating an account in FltPlan.com and linking it to GP caused me grief because of my lack of understanding of how they were supposed to work together. I think I would have been better off just using the internal GP features and Leidos.

My GP subscription goes through May so I might make another run at it. But for now I’m reverting to Foreflight Fan Boy 

[dkkim73]

8 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

or have preexisting pilot and aircraft profiles you want to use in Pilot

In fact, I *think* (still learning) the FltPlan.com profiles might not be compatible with the more nuanced performance profiles on GP (multiple altitude and power settings for the Acclaim, for example). 

 

[midlifeflyer]

8 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

In fact, I *think* (still learning) the FltPlan.com profiles might not be compatible with the more nuanced performance profiles on GP (multiple altitude and power settings for the Acclaim, for example). 

 

I wouldn’t doubt that. 

[midlifeflyer]

16 hours ago, Rick Junkin said:

Thanks Mark, that helps me. I tried to find something on the internet that would tell me the benefit of using FltPlan.com vs Leidos in GP and didn’t find anything that was as illuminating as what you just shared. I think creating an account in FltPlan.com and linking it to GP caused me grief because of my lack of understanding of how they were supposed to work together. I think I would have been better off just using the internal GP features and Leidos.

My GP subscription goes through May so I might make another run at it. But for now I’m reverting to Foreflight Fan Boy 

Glad it helped. I’m familiar because I  was using FltPlan.com for several years before EFBs came along. It was where we first saw things like advance flight plan filing, notification of expected clearances, and recent / common cleared ATC routes. Those are still excellent, but I think these days it’s mostly about the paid services. I connected the accounts when I signed up the first time but later disconnected them as unnecessary for my use.