Video of door pop, pilot error (not Mooney)

[201er]

 Someone posted a video of a flight in a twin where the door popped. Good video because you get to see how the door was closed as well as when it popped. Lots of hurrahs in the comments about keeping cool after the door opened in flight. But, it seems nobody notices the pilot error that led to it in the first place.

The PIC did not close the door, the passenger did. Furthermore the PIC did not use a checklist or verify that the door was properly closed.

I don't care if it's a friend, family, or the world's greatest instructor sitting in the right seat, it is PIC responsibility to ensure door is properly closed.

Having had 2 door pops in my Mooney early on, I can say they happened pretty much just like this (passenger closing the door). I have never let anyone else close the door since (not even other Mooney pilots) and I haven't had a door pop in over 10 years. Could have something to do with the leverage benefit from the pilot seat or just knowing my own plane.

It's good to keep cool and handle the plane after a door pop. It's even better to prevent it through proper usage and checks in order not to even be in that position during a potentially critical phase of flight.

A few notable Mooney door related mishaps of varying levels of severity:

 

Key moments in video 2:00-2:20 and 25:00-25:20

 

[toto]

It's hard to tell sometimes what's happening with a checklist in YT videos.  The PIC here clearly verbalized (something) during preparation for takeoff, but it's not clear whether there was a checklist somewhere that she was reading or whether this was just a memorized set of steps.  I don't see an iPad or any sort of portable electronic checklist, and I don't see a checklist function on the MFD.  (I've never seen this channel before, so maybe this is SoP.)  This doesn't sound like what would be printed on a factory placard. 

The Piper door latch is annoying as they discovered - if the top pops open, you have to reset it manually and that can be hard to do in flight.  But if closed correctly in the first place, it shouldn't pop open.  Maybe they'll have a follow up video.

I definitely struggle with the "EMERGENCY" title of the video.  A door popping open is distracting, but the wings haven't fallen off the plane.

[NickG]

1 hour ago, 201er said:

 Someone posted a video of a flight in a twin where the door popped. Good video because you get to see how the door was closed as well as when it popped. Lots of hurrahs in the comments about keeping cool after the door opened in flight. But, it seems nobody notices the pilot error that led to it in the first place.

The PIC did not close the door, the passenger did. Furthermore the PIC did not use a checklist or verify that the door was properly closed.

I don't care if it's a friend, family, or the world's greatest instructor sitting in the right seat, it is PIC responsibility to ensure door is properly closed.

Having had 2 door pops in my Mooney early on, I can say they happened pretty much just like this (passenger closing the door). I have never let anyone else close the door since (not even other Mooney pilots) and I haven't had a door pop in over 10 years. Could have something to do with the leverage benefit from the pilot seat or just knowing my own plane.

It's good to keep cool and handle the plane after a door pop. It's even better to prevent it through proper usage and checks in order not to even be in that position during a potentially critical phase of flight.

A few notable Mooney door related mishaps of varying levels of severity:

 

Key moments in video 2:00-2:20 and 25:00-25:20

 

Yes, this is Flywithkay,

She's a CFII, and so I believe is her father who is in the right seat. She's a new owner of the Seneca she's flying. I think she shows decent ADM here - the dad holds the door and troubleshoots while she flies the plane. She calls the tower and informs them of their situation and tells them it is NOT an emergency but would like to get on the ground as soon as possible. She also elects to go around once she realizes she's not properly established (high). True, no checklists though but they handled it well.  

[good2eat]

Only thing I was thinking she could have done is told her dad to go to sterile cockpit - he was telling her what to do and seemed to cause a lot more stress than was necessary.

[NickG]

1 hour ago, good2eat said:

Only thing I was thinking she could have done it told her dad to go to sterile cockpit - he was telling her what to do and seemed to cause a lot more stress than was necessary.

Yes I agree. Love the way she overruled him and asserted her decision to go around as PIC. 

[A64Pilot]

Unless you have a gull wing door or something, I see no need to do anything if the door “pops”. I’d probably fly to the nearest airport, land and shut it myself.

It doesn’t affect anything, just is noisy is all. Now the Gull wings ones have I believe been torn off, but the one incident I read about it changed nothing about how the airplane flew.

Personally I never let anyone touch the door or gear switch but me, even if they are senior in experience.

[Echo]

PIC did an outstanding job.  Very professional.  Like the hand up to her father and the CRM displayed.  well done.

[201er]

Here’s another one. Distracted, lets the passenger close the door, of course the passenger closes it wrong, PIC doesn’t check, no checklist, just some random pre takeoff pointing and worrying about the cameras. Total non-event but could be worse in certain conditions or compounded with other problems.

 

[Barneyw]

On 7/26/2024 at 6:35 AM, 201er said:

 Someone posted a video of a flight in a twin where the door popped. Good video because you get to see how the door was closed as well as when it popped. Lots of hurrahs in the comments about keeping cool after the door opened in flight. But, it seems nobody notices the pilot error that led to it in the first place.

The PIC did not close the door, the passenger did. Furthermore the PIC did not use a checklist or verify that the door was properly closed.

I don't care if it's a friend, family, or the world's greatest instructor sitting in the right seat, it is PIC responsibility to ensure door is properly closed.

Having had 2 door pops in my Mooney early on, I can say they happened pretty much just like this (passenger closing the door). I have never let anyone else close the door since (not even other Mooney pilots) and I haven't had a door pop in over 10 years. Could have something to do with the leverage benefit from the pilot seat or just knowing my own plane.

 

 

Well they got safely on the ground and at the end of the day that's all that matters, however, there are some criticisms that some have already made. My concern is that we are seeing a lot more Vlogging going on and that requires a degree of set up and management, in and of itself, and I am just wondering if it is becoming too much of a distraction. I note that there are a few accidents popping up specifically of Vloggers conducting flights that don't end well. As we should all agree that flying is something that you need to be fully committed to and have your head in the game. If you are a student of TEM then you might agree that there are a whole raft of threats and potential errors being imported into the cockpit.  I'm not against the idea of taking videos of a flight as there is some great footage to be had but would suggest to do it from a "fly on the wall" perspective and do all the other extra speaking bits and special stuff in post.

Cheers

Barneyw

[M20F]

On 7/25/2024 at 5:13 PM, toto said:

I definitely struggle with the "EMERGENCY" title of the video.  A door popping open is distracting, but the wings haven't fallen off the plane.

I definitely don’t struggle, I deny it’s an emergency.  It can make it loud, it can make it cold, it can make it a little wet, and it can cost you a few knots but that’s about it.  

[Hank]

10 hours ago, M20F said:

I definitely don’t struggle, I deny it’s an emergency.  It can make it loud, it can make it cold, it can make it a little wet, and it can cost you a few knots but that’s about it.  

In our Mooneys, I agree. But for some planes, its a real emergency, and a controlled landing is not guaranteed. 

[M20F]

9 hours ago, Hank said:

In our Mooneys, I agree. But for some planes, its a real emergency, and a controlled landing is not guaranteed. 

You are right the other day I was flying my F16 and the door popped open, thankfully fully the ejector seat worked.  

[Hank]

5 hours ago, M20F said:

You are right the other day I was flying my F16 and the door popped open, thankfully fully the ejector seat worked.  

I was thinking more about airplanes that have doors, more specifically some particular twins that have been brought down by open doors.

[201er]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

I was thinking more about airplanes that have doors, more specifically some particular twins that have been brought down by open doors.

You don't have to look so far, unfortunately even Mooneys. I linked 3 cases in the original post.

[201er]

Yet another one! Dunno why it's such a trend for twins to have their doors popping open in flight for videos but not much different of a problem than in Mooneys. Kuddos to the pilot admitting it was his mistake/responsibility for not checking the door was properly closed before takeoff and making a safe landing. Dave Hirschman, AOPA Pilot Editor at Large, narrates "as pilot in command, this was my fault. I failed to ensure the Baron's passenger door was closed and locked before takeoff so it popped open in cruise."

There is definitely a pattern of complacency across these videos and similar stories of the pilot in command failing to perform proper preflight action and pretakeoff checklist to ensure the door is properly closed. Too much trust in the passenger being able to close the door. But, worse yet, it makes you wonder what other pre-takeoff items they may be skipping if they are not checking the door per the checklist?

 

[Ragsf15e]

On 8/22/2024 at 8:37 AM, M20F said:

I definitely don’t struggle, I deny it’s an emergency.  It can make it loud, it can make it cold, it can make it a little wet, and it can cost you a few knots but that’s about it.  

I think an emergency is pretty much up to the pilot.  If the PIC thinks it’s an emergency, then it is.  If they want priority, who am I to disagree?  I had a door open in my Mooney once and didn’t declare an emergency but if someone needs that to get down safely, more power to them.

[M20F]

14 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I think an emergency is pretty much up to the pilot.  If the PIC thinks it’s an emergency, then it is.  If they want priority, who am I to disagree?  I had a door open in my Mooney once and didn’t declare an emergency but if someone needs that to get down safely, more power to them.

To some extent I agree.  Though to some extent if a door popping open on a Mooney is going to make a PIC declare, perhaps they need some work in decision making or a differing hobby. 
 
I feel competency and decision making have relevance.  45% of accidents are pilots being scared to declare.  45% of accidents are pilots who had no business being in a plane in the first place.  I left out 10% for whomever wants to point out some obtuse situation, such as the door popped open and an Albatross flew in and attacked the PIC.  
 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, M20F said:

I left out 10% for whomever wants to point out some obtuse situation, such as the door popped open and an Albatross flew in and attacked the PIC.  

I'm reminded of our fellow Mooney pilot who embedded a goose in the vertical stabilizer on approach one night. And the other Mooney pilot who had a goose come through the windshield, spraying gore throughout the cabin. Both landed safely as I recall. The photo of the goose embedded in the stabilizer, with one wing and one foot hanging down on each side was memorable. 

[Utah20Gflyer]

I had the door pop open once when I let my wife close the door.  It popped open 5 minutes into a 35 minute flight on a warm day.  I just completed the flight.  In a Mooney if it’s not really cold  it’s just an annoyance.  

[Hank]

On 10/6/2024 at 8:55 AM, Utah20Gflyer said:

I had the door pop open once when I let my wife close the door.  It popped open 5 minutes into a 35 minute flight on a warm day.  I just completed the flight.  In a Mooney if it’s not really cold  it’s just an annoyance.  

Same thing here, except it was a 90 minute flight. I gave her the choice, we went back, landed, closed the door again with better guidance for Miss I-Can-Do-It-Myself, and took off again. And I logged an additional 0.2 hours on that flight.

[dkkim73]

On 10/4/2024 at 2:33 PM, Hank said:

... The photo of the goose embedded in the stabilizer, with one wing and one foot hanging down on each side was memorable. 

That is kind of cool, not to be morbid.

As for the visual: I made a joke while acquiring the plane about a radar pod on the tail. Might not be high enough still but an interesting question. 

Apparently some older Mooneys has a small radar in the leading edge of the wing. 

[Oscar Avalle]

something similar happened to me in my Mooney...Just stay calm