Considering M20F That Had A Gear Up Landing - What To Watch Out For?

[ProtoFly]

Mooney newbie here, and reading as much as I can:

Looking at a 66 M20F.  Logs show a gear up landing about 5 years ago.  Insurance totaled the plane, but looks like it was rescued, so assuming it was probably under-insured more than a basket case.  Engine was IRAN'd, and they replaced the crank, cam, lifters, and re-ringed it, plus a new 3 blade prop.  I've asked for more pictures of the repaired areas.

What sorts of things should I be on the lookout for?  I've asked about compliance with SB-208, but given the horror stories about pre-buys not revealing corrosion and other major issues, what are some things I should be looking at as a prospective Mooney owner?
 

[Fly Boomer]

9 minutes ago, ProtoFly said:

Mooney newbie here, and reading as much as I can:

Looking at a 66 M20F.  Logs show a gear up landing about 5 years ago.  Insurance totaled the plane, but looks like it was rescued, so assuming it was probably under-insured more than a basket case.  Engine was IRAN'd, and they replaced the crank, cam, lifters, and re-ringed it, plus a new 3 blade prop.  I've asked for more pictures of the repaired areas.

What sorts of things should I be on the lookout for?  I've asked about compliance with SB-208, but given the horror stories about pre-buys not revealing corrosion and other major issues, what are some things I should be looking at as a prospective Mooney owner?
 

This is not meant to be snarky but, just in terms of the skins, if you have crawled around under several airplanes, you know what "normal" looks like.  If the one you are looking at looks "patched", it wasn't a very good repair.  There could be other not-so-obvious damage that only an experienced Mooney person could spot.  If everything else checks out from your perspective, think about a pre-buy inspection by a trusted Mooney shop.

[Danb]

Wouldn’t worry if fixed properly I’d get a competent Mooney mechanic and get a good inspection

[ProtoFly]

34 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

This is not meant to be snarky but, just in terms of the skins, if you have crawled around under several airplanes, you know what "normal" looks like.  If the one you are looking at looks "patched", it wasn't a very good repair.  There could be other not-so-obvious damage that only an experienced Mooney person could spot.  If everything else checks out from your perspective, think about a pre-buy inspection by a trusted Mooney shop.

Thanks for the reply.  Not taken as snarky at all.  The plane is not local to me.  It's going in for annual this week, so I've asked for pictures of lots of things, prior to scheduling a PBI.  I think if I like what I see, I may travel out to the plane to be there in person for the PBI - that way I can ask questions and see with my own eyes.  Based on some of the other threads on shoddy pre-buys, even from MSC's, seems prudent.  

While I'm not an A&P/IA, I assist at the local airport with annuals and such, so am at least basically familiar with what to look for with corrosion - except we don't see many Mooneys (we get lots of Pipers and Cessnas).  So yeah, where to look for corrosion would be helpful.  Everything else but corrosion is 'fixable', if the price is otherwise right.

[Fly Boomer]

2 minutes ago, ProtoFly said:

Based on some of the other threads on shoddy pre-buys, even from MSC's, seems prudent.  

While I'm not an A&P/IA, I assist at the local airport with annuals and such, so am at least basically familiar with what to look for with corrosion - except we don't see many Mooneys (we get lots of Pipers and Cessnas).  So yeah, where to look for corrosion would be helpful.  Everything else but corrosion is 'fixable', if the price is otherwise right.

Yeah, the pre-buy is a catch-22.  Bad things can happen either way, but at least you have a better shot at finding the bad stuff if you get the right person to do the pre-buy.  I'll let someone more experienced speak to the corrosion issue.

[McMooney]

Gear ups really aren't that big of an issue, usually ends up with an inspected/new engine, new prop and some replaced sheet metal.

as for prebuys, they are really just a crap shoot,  I just said the heck with it and had birdy annualed.

 

Edited March 11, 2024 by McMooney

[Fritz1]

Prebuy is an annual with emphasis on corrosion inspection, if aircraft is purchased annual gets signed after fixing identified squaks, if not purchased great learning experience. Get really knowledgeable mooney guy for the inspection and pay him well, the gear up is second fiddle to potential corrosion.

[Andy95W]

 

[ProtoFly]

Thanks for all the information.  The post on what to look for is gold.

[DCarlton]

I've owned a '67 M20F for 20 years with no airframe issues that had a gear up prior to my ownership.  I would want to review the repair documentation to see what areas of the airframe were repaired; then I would want to personally eyeball those areas to include dropping the belly pan.  Many of the gear up Mooneys have been blessed with a one piece fiberglass belly pan; that's a plus IMO.  

[M20F]

The advice of personally inspecting is misguided. If you were somebody who could do that you wouldn’t be asking the question.  That isn’t meant to be snarky either but when I am sick I go to a doctor.  
 
Get somebody highly competent to look at it like Maxwell or the like.  Savy could be another option.  They are all a great deal till it turns out they aren’t and the $20K you saved turns into $50K of expense. 
 
Nothing wrong with any airplane damage if fixed right, good luck. 

[DCarlton]

1 hour ago, M20F said:

The advice of personally inspecting is misguided. If you were somebody who could do that you wouldn’t be asking the question.  That isn’t meant to be snarky either but when I am sick I go to a doctor.  
 
Get somebody highly competent to look at it like Maxwell or the like.  Savy could be another option.  They are all a great deal till it turns out they aren’t and the $20K you saved turns into $50K of expense. 
 
Nothing wrong with any airplane damage if fixed right, good luck. 

We will have to agree to agree.  I started the post by saying I've owned my Mooney for 20 years.  I have 20 years of ownership experience to rely own (plus an MS in Mechanical Engineering and 35 years experience as an engineer with the Navy; and no I still don't pretend to have the expertise of a shop or senior mechanic).  "I" wouldn't buy one now without personally inspecting the airplane regardless of the aviation expert or shop supporting me.   But with that said, I agree with you; if you don't have any experience, you've gotta find an expert.  I was also trying to be positive; a gear up is not a show stopper but be smart about it.  [That's the risk of these quick chats on Mooneyspace; the details get lost but it's still much better than the Facebook alternatives.]  

[Yetti]

There is a CD that you can order from the FAA that has good information about the plane.   https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/copies_aircraft_records

[ProtoFly]

Just now, Yetti said:

There is a CD that you can order from the FAA that has good information about the plane.   https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/copies_aircraft_records

Ah! Yes....  I'll have to do that.  Shame they don't make that available online for nominal fee.

Latest news is that the plane is going in for annual next week.  I've asked about the SB, and a corrosion inspection, which I requested pictures, done according to the link :

 

We'll see what comes back.

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, ProtoFly said:

Ah! Yes....  I'll have to do that.  Shame they don't make that available online for nominal fee.

It's available online for free.   You have to register at the site, but then you can download the files for any aircraft.

https://cares.faa.gov/home