who has the STC for wing mounted HID landinglights

[davidsguerra]

For a M20k? everyone i see excludes the m20k. i removed the radar from the right wing so there is already a space for it.

thanks guys.

David

[Bennett]

I suggest that you contact Coy Jacobs at Mooney Mart.  Many years ago (Mod Works / Mod Squad) he made up wing taxi and landing lights for both wings for my M20K 261/262 mod.  We also went for two lights in the nose.  Flying into major ariports almost always received comments as to how far away they could see the airplane.  That is exactly what I wanted. These were quartz lights as I recall.  Now I have the LoPresti cowl on a diffrent Mooney, and it has the "Boom" HID light (singular).  I still wish I had the wing mounted lights.  I am in the process of replacing the wingtip recognition lights with LED landing lights.  AVEO makes a 2 and 1/2"" diamerter LED landing light that will fit.  We will do the installation under a 337 form, just as we did for the LED nav and strobe lights.

[RJBrown]

http://www.mooneymart.com/modifications/114MM.php

Mod works put one in the right side of my Rocket. Make sure they can get the "factory parts" before you commit.

These come with regular PAR bulbs. It adds 2 lights per side.

I now have both sides with wing lights on my 1990MSE J. Great to have all the light and this way bulbs last forever. In the stock K I used to replace the cowl mounted bulbs often.  

 This would be 2 STCs to get HIDs in the wing. One to add wing lights one to then add HID.

[jetdriven]

You dont need an STC to mount an HID.  No 337 either.  Minor modification.

[danb35]

Quote: jetdriven

You dont need an STC to mount an HID.  No 337 either.  Minor modification.

[jetdriven]

Link?  What is the certification basis for your GE 4522  bulb?

[N601RX]

Quote: davidsguerra

For a M20k? everyone i see excludes the m20k. i removed the radar from the right wing so there is already a space for it.

thanks guys.

David

[KSMooniac]

Quote: danb35

I've seen reference to fairly recent guidance from the FAA that disagrees with this, and prohibits granting field approvals on 337s as well (the alleged logic being that the technology is reasonably mature, so folks who want to play in the certified arena should get STCs).  It'd probably be a good idea to check with the A&P you plan to work with (and perhaps for him to check with the FSDO as well) before spending any money you can't get refunded.

[jetdriven]

Is a landing light change a minor or major alteration?  Is a 337 required for a minor alteration?   Whats the certification basis of the tractor bulb your Mooney came with?

[KSMooniac]

Quote: N601RX

 Here is a link to a field approval for HID lighting in the cowling of a K model.

http://www.xevision.com/FAA337/B.Vauhgn%20Mooney%20M20K%20337.pdf

I have also saw a fairly recent field approval for using mooney parts from a newer model that has wing lights to relocate the lights from the cowl to the wing on a vintage model. Based on these, I don't think it would be to hard to get another follow on approval.

[KSMooniac]

Quote: jetdriven

Is a landing light change a minor or major alteration?  Is a 337 required for a minor alteration?   Whats the certification basis of the tractor bulb your Mooney came with?

[jetdriven]

From the FAA's own document

4-1177    OBJECTIVE. This section provides guidance in determining the category of a repair or alteration and ensuring that the aircraft, engine, or accessory can be returned to service in accordance with the field approval process, regardless of the rules under which the aircraft operates.

4-1178    GENERAL.

A.    Factors to Consider. There are essentially three factors to consider in the performance of alterations or repairs. These definitions are provided in Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 1, § 1.1.

1)    Is the alteration or repair major or minor, per 14 CFR part 43 appendix A? If determined to be a major repair or alteration, a field approval may be granted.

2)    If the alteration or repair is determined to be a major change to type design, a field approval will not be granted.

3)    Minor alterations or repairs do not require Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) approval.

 

from  http://fsims.faa.gov/WDocs/8900.1/V04%20AC%20Equip%20&%20Auth/Chapter%2009/04_009_001.htm

[N601RX]

Quote: KSMooniac

 Here is a link to a field approval for HID lighting in the cowling of a K model.

http://www.xevision.com/FAA337/B.Vauhgn%20Mooney%20M20K%20337.pdf

I have also saw a fairly recent field approval for using mooney parts from a newer model that has wing lights to relocate the lights from the cowl to the wing on a vintage model. Based on these, I don't think it would be to hard to get another follow on approval.

[jetdriven]

more info.   So, again, is a XeVision 50W HID  a major, or minor alteration?     How do you know your tractor bulb landing light is safe to use in an aircraft?  What specification must a landing light conform to (say, performance or candlepower, or beam width)?

 

Major alteration. An alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications—

(1) That might appreciably affect weight, balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities affecting airworthiness; or

(2) That is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by elementary operations.

 

Minor Alteration. An alteration other than a major alteration.

[KSMooniac]

Byron, I'm agreeing 100% with you, but unfortunately the FAA has made it crystal-clear that they do not.  I suspect that since *some* vendors went through the expensive STC route (probably unnecessarily) they are now going to force the rest of them to do so.  It is crap, but it is what it is.  Here is the AOPA forum thread:

http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?t=79736&highlight=landing+light+field+approval

and snips from the FAA:

http://fsims.faa.gov/WDocs/8900.1/V04%20AC%20Equip%20&%20Auth/Chapter%2009/04_009_001.htm

Figure 4-68.    Eligibility Considerations for Field Approval

1. The following lists indicate which method(s) may be used for approving major alterations to type certificated (TC) and Supplemental Type Certificated (STC) products. These lists are not all-inclusive, and each alteration should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Consult each section that concerns your product. Additionally, aviation safety inspectors (ASI) should review current notices, advisory circulars (AC), etc., for specific types of installations that have been identified as candidates for field approval. The legend is as follows:

2. Items with the letters “STC” require an STC. With the complexity of broad applications concerning field approval evaluations, inspectors occasionally encounter a situation in which the guidance material requires application for an STC but the Aircraft Certification Office (ACO) may deem it unnecessary. In those circumstances, ACOs should consider re-classification to ENG. In these instances, justification from the ACO must be coordinated with AIR-100 and the appropriate product directorate and provided in writing to the approving inspector so it can be referenced on Form 337.

3. Items with the letters “EVL” may be eligible for approval by means other than a STC, depending on the scope and complexity of the alteration. These items will not automatically qualify for a field approval; they require evaluation and review of guidance to determine if the field approval process may be applied and is appropriate.

4. Items with the letters “ENG” may be eligible for approval by means other than a STC, but require either supporting Designated Engineering Represenatitve (DER) or Organization Designation Authorization (ODA) approved engineering data or concurrence from the ACO for issuance of field approval.

5. Items with the letters “N/A” are the responsibility of the aircraft owner or operator because the articles presented to the FAA for approval are beyond the FAA authority to evaluate. Developers and manufacturers of such articles are not likely FAA-certificated entities. Therefore, there is no FAA responsibility to accept or approve use of such articles for a field approval.

z)    High-Intensity Discharge (HID) lamps and power supplies must have been issued STC for a particular make and model airplane and Parts Manufacturer Approval (PMA) supplement lists’ specific eligibility for installation of HID as supplemental lighting only. aa)    HID lighting installed and intended for use as primary lighting required to meet performance under the airworthiness standards requires approval by STC.

ENG or STC

 

[KSMooniac]

The "ENG" notation in the column on the right seems to leave some wiggle room in that the ACO my concur with a 337 field approval submission, but apparently the FAA has directed that they shall no longer do so.  Reports on the AOPA thread seem to back that up.  It sucks.

[jetdriven]

in the case of a Mooney landing light, it is by definition a minor alteration and the 8900.1 ducument does not apply. 

A tractor bulb does not have  a TSO nor any FAA blessing whatsoever.  For FAR 91, a landing light is not even required.

It clearly states in the beginning,that minor alterations and repairs do not require FAA approval.

4-1177    OBJECTIVE. This section provides guidance in determining the category of a repair or alteration and ensuring that the aircraft, engine, or accessory can be returned to service in accordance with the field approval process, regardless of the rules under which the aircraft operates.

4-1178    GENERAL.

A.    Factors to Consider. There are essentially three factors to consider in the performance of alterations or repairs. These definitions are provided in Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 1, § 1.1.

1)    Is the alteration or repair major or minor, per 14 CFR part 43 appendix A? If determined to be a major repair or alteration, a field approval may be granted.

2)    If the alteration or repair is determined to be a major change to type design, a field approval will not be granted.

3)    Minor alterations or repairs do not require Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) approval.

 

 

 

then  further, under definitions,

Definitions.

1)    Alter. To change or modify.

2)    Appliance. Any instrument, mechanism, equipment, part, apparatus, appurtenance, or accessory (including communications equipment) that one uses or intends to use in operating or controlling an aircraft in flight and that is installed in, or attached to, the aircraft and which is not part of an airframe, engine, or propeller.

3)    Approval for Return to Service. The approval given by an appropriately rated person that enables an aircraft to be returned to service.

4)    Field Approval. Field approvals are a method by which the FAA approves technical data used to accomplish a major repair or a major alteration on a single aircraft, provided the repair or alteration is not classified as a major change in type design. An FAA inspector’s signature in block 3 of FAA Form 337 approves the data provided on the form.

5)    Coordinated Field Approval. A procedure initiated by an aviation safety inspector (ASI) when he or she determines that a proposed alteration or repair (project) may exceed the scope and complexity or be beyond the knowledge of an ASI to approve. The ASI should coordinate the applicant’s request with the appropriate Aircraft Certification Office (ACO).

6)    Follow-On Field Approval. Approval of equipment of the same make and model on an aircraft using data from the initial field approval. The make and model of the aircraft may be different for generic applications such as avionics installations, if the installation is similar.

7)    Initial Approval. The first field approval of equipment installed on a given make and model.

8)    Major/Minor Repairs/Alterations. See part 1 and part 43, appendix A.

9)    Major/Minor Type Design Changes. See part 21, §§ 21.93, 21.95, 21.97, and 21.113.

10)    Meet Minimum TSO-Established Standards. Means that the equipment need not have TSO approval, but only meet requirements set by the TSO.

11)    Product. Aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller.

12)    Return to Service. The action of making an aircraft operational after an appropriately rated person grants approval.

13)    Substantiating. To support and verify with proof or evidence.

[M20F-1968]

I did a number of modifications, installing Mooney parts used on the newer aircraft on my 1968 F model.  This is including the Ovation factory landing and taxi lights in the left and right wings.  The bulb were subsequently converted to HID lights.  This required two DER write-ups and 337's.  With DER approved data and a conforming installation, it was not an issue.  You can   e-mail me if you have questions at johnabreda@yahoo.com

John Breda