Do You Secure Your Cargo?

[GeeBee]

Wondering how many of you secure your cargo? A recent accident with a Cherokee 6 where a small outboard came up and killed the pilot in an otherwise survivable accident got me thinking. The Mooney cargo restraints are not real easy to use. I attached my straps to a cargo net and attached the other ends of the net to the rear shoulder harness rings because I rarely carry rear seat passengers. What do you do...if anything?

[takair]

Old Mooney so no straps in cargo area…..but my seat blocks much of it.  I will use the seat belts and/or straps when I put heavy things on rear seat….bikes…etc.  I hook the straps to the seat structure where it attaches to the fuselage…but I don’t think the newer planes have this..

Do you have link or pointer to the referenced accident?

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

Wondering how many of you secure your cargo? A recent accident with a Cherokee 6 where a small outboard came up and killed the pilot in an otherwise survivable accident got me thinking. The Mooney cargo restraints are not real easy to use. I attached my straps to a cargo net and attached the other ends of the net to the rear shoulder harness rings because I rarely carry rear seat passengers. What do you do...if anything?

I had a portable Air Conditioner (PlaneAC freon, not ice chest) in the baggage compartment in a Bravo that I owned. I used the Mooney straps to secure it. I foolishly sold it with the airplane,  since later i found out that they stopped making them.

I recently bought a used Arctic Air Real AC and I plan on doing the same, strapping it in the baggage compartment. 

I do the same with luggage I've carried. Anything back there can be a missile-like projectile in turbulence or a crash.

[PT20J]

John King told a story on one of his videos of crash landing in a field and a toolbox he had on the hat rack went flying between he and Martha and made a rectangular hole in the windshield.

I don't usually have that much cargo, but I use the Mooney straps plus I carry a couple of extra straps to augment them.

I like the cargo net idea. Where did you find one small enough for the Mooney baggage compartment (Most I've seen are for cars and trucks and are pretty large)?

[Shadrach]

34 minutes ago, takair said:

Old Mooney so no straps in cargo area…..but my seat blocks much of it.  I will use the seat belts and/or straps when I put heavy things on rear seat….bikes…etc.  I hook the straps to the seat structure where it attaches to the fuselage…but I don’t think the newer planes have this..

Do you have link or pointer to the referenced accident?

My 67 came with cargo straps. I replaced them over a decade ago.

I do secure cargo. I have often thought about the best way to secure a net above the rear seats.

[larryb]

[Hank]

49 minutes ago, larryb said:

The cargo tie downs in my Mooney are all on the floor--the two front ones are ~10" inboard of each sidewall and about 6" behind the seat back; the two rear ones are similarly located about 6" in front of the rear wall below the hat rack. In other words, pretty useless. In my C, they must be 18" apart across the fuselage and less than a foot apart front-to-back, so that I can tie down a box of books in the center of the baggage area, with a good 6" buffer of empty space on all four sides.

But to tie down two suitcases, a canvas bag, spare pair of tennis shoes, a computer bag, my wife's cosmetics / shower bag and two bags of food, plus the canopy cover in its travel bag, these tie down locations are worthless. So I pack everything tight, lay the canopy cover over everything and wedge my towbar between everything and the seat back. Oh, yeah, like the Owners Manual says, nothing heavy in the hat rack; besides, it's weight limit is 10 lb per the placard.

 

[Shadrach]

13 hours ago, larryb said:

I like it but I want something that goes to the ceiling.

[EricJ]

You can get generic cargo nets at places like Harbor Freight.   I'm a fan of cargo nets, but I don't currently have anything in place.   I'd like to, though.  I'm not sure how to anchor it in my airplane, but that's a solvable problem.

I inadvertently spun my airplane when doing airwork and reviewing stalls, from a very nose-high attitude.   It rolls over on its back and goes straight down, similar to what a C-150 does when you spin it (which I've done, many, many times).

When I got home I did the usual thing and opened the hatch to get the tow bar, and the tow bar and a bunch of other stuff was gone.   I was very puzzled...where did the tow bar go?   It and a bunch of other crap that is usually in the hatch was all in the back seat.   If the tow bar can get in the back seat under certain conditions, it can get further forward, and I don't ever want to get hit in the back of the head by the tow bar or anything else.   So, yeah, a net is not a bad idea at all.

[Utah20Gflyer]

Heavy things yes I strap them down.  I do need to replace my straps though, they are old and hard to use. 

[Skates97]

Has anyone added tie-down rings in the cargo area of an old Mooney? I would love to add some.

[xcrmckenna]

I used this in my 201. Had plenty of room holding the cargo area down when loaded. It’s ready to go in the Bravo when or if it ever arrives.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fly Boomer]

11 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I like it by I want something that goes to the ceiling.

I like that plan.  What is there to hook on to up there?

[Fly Boomer]

11 hours ago, EricJ said:

I inadvertently spun my airplane when doing airwork and reviewing stalls, from a very nose-high attitude.   It rolls over on its back and goes straight down

I find this terrifying.  I have a lot of excess power (higher deck angle before stall), so I'm probably not doing departure stalls in mine.  According to Rich Stowell in his excellent book Stall/Spin Awareness, some testing he did for Mooney many years ago showed that there were some unrecoverable spin modes.

[GeeBee]

There is really nothing to hook to in the ceiling without welding in some tabs. On my Ovation the back baggage wall is a no go. Really not strong enough. I added some D rings to the aft floor straps. I bring those up vertical against the back wall when I load baggage and place a 3'x2' cargo net over the top attached to the aft straps and the rear shoulder harness mounts. Between the net and the seat backs the baggage is restrained. 

Recently I had a situation where I had to fold down the rear seats. I obtained a 3'x6' cargo net from Amazon. I attached to the rear baggage floor straps per usual, made a mid point restraint on the aft shoulder harness mounts, then used 5/32" D shackles from West Marine attached to the inboard front seat tracks and secured the cargo net forward there. There are holes in the inboard seat tracks made for the D shackles and I have just left the shackles in place as they don't interfere with seat operation except during seat removal.

Safari Straps used to be my go to place for custom cargo nets but Covid killed their business. There are others but Amazon seems to have some good vendors.

Sadly, I believe all the GA manufacturers really suck on cargo restraint. A few tabs or hard points in manufacture would really help. 

[Fly Boomer]

7 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

There is really nothing to hook to in the ceiling without welding in some tabs. On my Ovation the back baggage wall is a no go. Really not strong enough. I added some D rings to the aft floor straps. I bring those up vertical against the back wall when I load baggage and place a 3'x2' cargo net over the top attached to the aft straps and the rear shoulder harness mounts. Between the net and the seat backs the baggage is restrained. 

Recently I had a situation where I had to fold down the rear seats. I obtained a 3'x6' cargo net from Amazon. I attached to the rear baggage floor straps per usual, made a mid point restraint on the aft shoulder harness mounts, then used 5/32" D shackles from West Marine attached to the inboard front seat tracks and secured the cargo net forward there. There are holes in the inboard seat tracks made for the D shackles and I have just left the shackles in place as they don't interfere with seat operation except during seat removal.

Safari Straps used to be my go to place for custom cargo nets but Covid killed their business. There are others but Amazon seems to have some good vendors.

Sadly, I believe all the GA manufacturers really suck on cargo restraint. A few tabs or hard points in manufacture would really help. 

This is good stuff.  Thank you!

[Shadrach]

10 hours ago, Skates97 said:

Has anyone added tie-down rings in the cargo area of an old Mooney? I would love to add some.

I did not add them, but I am sure you could easily duplicate what the factory did in 67.  There are two pairs of straps in my baggage compartment. Each each strap has single sewn in d-ring on the mount side. Each pair has double d-rings on one strap to lash them together. They used AN bolts and nuts through the baggage floor with a large washer to affix the single D- ring to the floor.

If I were adding them, I would use a clip lie this.

https://www.strapworks.com/1-inch-stainless-steel-dring-with-clip

 

[Shadrach]

42 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

I find this terrifying.  I have a lot of excess power (higher deck angle before stall), so I'm probably not doing departure stalls in mine.  According to Rich Stowell in his excellent book Stall/Spin Awareness, some testing he did for Mooney many years ago showed that there were some unrecoverable spin modes.

They all stall at high deck angles under full power. 

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

I find this terrifying.  I have a lot of excess power (higher deck angle before stall), so I'm probably not doing departure stalls in mine.  According to Rich Stowell in his excellent book Stall/Spin Awareness, some testing he did for Mooney many years ago showed that there were some unrecoverable spin modes.

That’s true with most non aerobatic aircraft, especially normal category and even some aerobatic ones. Neighbor has taught aerobatics and competed for years, they have a Zlin to teach in and have said the Zlin can get into unrecoverable spins and if it starts to go flat you had better bury the stick forward before it does, that in it you bury the stick and wait, it’s not an instant recovery like most aircraft.

My test pilot mentor that’s spun more aircraft than I’ve flown told me to be very wary of aircraft that are hard to make spin, they are most often difficult to recover, the saying is easy in, easy out.

My belief is it’s often a lack of rudder authority, couple that with an aft CG and you can get into trouble. Most tailwheel aircraft have huge rudders, to help stop ground looping, but nose draggers don’t need them so over time they have gotten smaller, my theory, plus back in the day an aircraft that couldn’t easily recover from a spin was considered unsafe. Maule is an outlier, most modern Maules with the Bellanca tail have smallish rudders, Maule tried hard to get into Utility category but it just won’t recover from a spin well enough. I think the smallish rudder is one reason it seems Maules are often ground looped.

I’ve heard but have no experience that a Cirrus is very spin resistant, hard to make spin.

[A64Pilot]

I don’t secure cargo in the Mooney, I don’t carry much really, just two scooters. When I carried cargo I did.

Don’t put anything not soft on the hat rack to even include a screwdriver, I saw an accident in the early 80’s where someone had 6x9 speakers sitting on the shelf above the trunk, one killed the driver when it hit him in the back of the head

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

I find this terrifying.  I have a lot of excess power (higher deck angle before stall), so I'm probably not doing departure stalls in mine.  According to Rich Stowell in his excellent book Stall/Spin Awareness, some testing he did for Mooney many years ago showed that there were some unrecoverable spin modes.

In my case it was because I was very stupid.   I'd been doing some maneuvers at a moderate power setting, about half to two-thirds throttle, and decided to do a stall in clean configuration.   The nose was very high, way higher than I expected and I realized it was because I still had throttle on, so I pulled it off.   I think about a millisecond into my action of pulling the throttle back I realized, "Oh, wait, this is very stupid...", but it was too late at that point. 

[GeeBee]

11 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

I don’t secure cargo in the Mooney, I don’t carry much really, just two scooters. When I carried cargo I did.

Don’t put anything not soft on the hat rack to even include a screwdriver, I saw an accident in the early 80’s where someone had 6x9 speakers sitting on the shelf above the trunk, one killed the driver when it hit him in the back of the head

So how much damage can a scooter do traveling at 70 knots to your noggin?

[A64Pilot]

7 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

So how much damage can a scooter do traveling at 70 knots to your noggin?

Have to get through the back seat back first and I don’t see that happening in a survivable accident, do you secure items in the trunk of your car? My Mooney’s back seat seems more strongly secured than a cars back seat, and you’re far more likely to hit something in a car that brings you to a sudden stop. There is risk in everything, my opinion is anything not stupid heavy that's behind my non folding back seat isn’t a significant risk. 

Then contrast that with just how would you restrain the things, with my knees I can’t get into the back seat and reach over and secure anything.

If I carry heavy things I do restrain them, but I don’t in the Mooney, isn’t it’s mission.

 

 

[Shadrach]

8 hours ago, GeeBee said:

There is really nothing to hook to in the ceiling without welding in some tabs. On my Ovation the back baggage wall is a no go. Really not strong enough. I added some D rings to the aft floor straps. I bring those up vertical against the back wall when I load baggage and place a 3'x2' cargo net over the top attached to the aft straps and the rear shoulder harness mounts. Between the net and the seat backs the baggage is restrained. 

Recently I had a situation where I had to fold down the rear seats. I obtained a 3'x6' cargo net from Amazon. I attached to the rear baggage floor straps per usual, made a mid point restraint on the aft shoulder harness mounts, then used 5/32" D shackles from West Marine attached to the inboard front seat tracks and secured the cargo net forward there. There are holes in the inboard seat tracks made for the D shackles and I have just left the shackles in place as they don't interfere with seat operation except during seat removal.

Safari Straps used to be my go to place for custom cargo nets but Covid killed their business. There are others but Amazon seems to have some good vendors.

Sadly, I believe all the GA manufacturers really suck on cargo restraint. A few tabs or hard points in manufacture would really help. 

No welding needed. Adel clamps around the top steel tube could be made to work. Any vintage Mooney with shoulder harnesses uses a beefy steel clamp as a hard point for mounting the hardness. These would work just as well or better.

 

[GeeBee]

10 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Have to get through the back seat back first and I don’t see that happening in a survivable accident, do you secure items in the trunk of your car? My Mooney’s back seat seems more strongly secured than a cars back seat, and you’re far more likely to hit something in a car that brings you to a sudden stop. There is risk in everything, my opinion is anything not stupid heavy that's behind my non folding back seat isn’t a significant risk. 

Then contrast that with just how would you restrain the things, with my knees I can’t get into the back seat and reach over and secure anything.

If I carry heavy things I do restrain them, but I don’t in the Mooney, isn’t it’s mission.

 

 

That outboard mowed down 2 rows of seats.