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Nice surprise hearing and talking to a friend on ATC and then having fun slipping the plane to lose altitude on landing.

Fly_M20R

By Fly_M20R
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Fly_M20R

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Had filed IFR for flight between Lake City and Fernandina due to bad weather with thunderstorms along the way. Turns out I ended up in a valley of VFR where it was quite smooth. Had a really nice surprise when I heard a friend who is a controller with Jax Center on the air who then gave me my clearance. Upon arrival at destination found myself a bit fast and a touch high turning base to final so decided to use a slip to lose altitude rather than speed brakes. 

Fun flight!

 

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Fly_M20R

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1 hour ago, PeteMc said:

Okay....  If you have Speed Brakes, why would you ever slip????

(Haven't watched the video, but don't get why you'd need to slip.)

Why not?

What if the speed brakes are disabled for some reason requiring overhaul, maintenance, etc? What would you do if you flew a Mooney without speed brakes?

Do it with adequate speed and they are a really useful and I would say also fun  technique. 

Regards,

Chris

 

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Fly_M20R

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10 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:


No need, and mechanical devices need to be used but not abused if you want them to be dependable, so I would used SB. I reserve slips for cross wind landings.

My first Mooney was an M20J like yours which did not have speed brakes. Did quite a few a slips in it, a good number of them just because I could. The two K's as well as the TLS I owned thereafter also did not have speed brakes. (**** CORRECTION: the TLS and 252's DID HAVE SPEED BRAKES -  I just never used them which is why I forgot about them ****)

The last Bravo I owned and this Ovation do have speed brakes which I use quite often but still slip as necessary. When I got my Ovation I realized that there was a significant difference between the speed brake performance in the 2005 Bravo vs the 1995 Ovation. Deploying them in the Bravo gives you a very predictable 500 fpm descent without touching the trim which is very useful in IFR as well as VFR flight. However, deploying them in the Ovation gives you at least 1200 fpm descent and also pitches the nose down a tad. When I measured their area I noticed that the ones in the Ovation have a bit larger surface area when deployed. The ones in the Bravo are the newer 2000 Series Precise Flight speed brakes whereas the ones in the Bravo are the first generation 100 Series Precise Flight speed brakes. Go figure....

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PeteMc Mentor

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8 hours ago, Fly_M20R said:

What if the speed brakes are disabled for some reason requiring overhaul, maintenance, etc?

Okay, guess that's what I get for not watching the video first.  From the original post I just thought it was a choice, not a need.  And with slipping not recommended in some (all?) Mooneys I was just wondering why someone would opt for that if they had Speed Brakes.

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Fly_M20R

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3 hours ago, PeteMc said:

Okay, guess that's what I get for not watching the video first.  From the original post I just thought it was a choice, not a need.  And with slipping not recommended in some (all?) Mooneys I was just wondering why someone would opt for that if they had Speed Brakes.

In the case of the video it was a choice. I will use speed brakes often but opt to do some degree of slip to do minor corrections on a number of finals always carefully watching the airspeed. 

Thank you for your input!

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Hank Grand Master

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5 hours ago, PeteMc said:

And with slipping not recommended in some (all?) Mooneys I was just wondering why someone would opt for that if they had Speed Brakes.

Slipping is Not Recommended in long-body Mooneys (L-V) with full flaps.

Us Vintage Mooney owners are free to slip at will!

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34 minutes ago, Hank said:

Slipping is Not Recommended in long-body Mooneys (L-V) with full flaps.

Us Vintage Mooney owners are free to slip at will!

According to Rob Kromer, test pilot for Mooney, as long as you keep above 85 KIAS in ANY Mooney you can do a full rudder forward slip with or without flaps without any problems. However somewhere between 80 - 85 KIAS and lower, K models and above (long bodies) experience buffeting and tendency to nose down pitch due to tail approaching stall which is worse with full flaps. The J and pre-J models all did well though.

Ergo, you are correct Hank, vintage Mooney owners (J and earlier) are free to slip at will!

 

Edit: I imagine he did the tests with the planes at gross weight and therefore I might expect the speeds for buffeting to be a bit lower with lower weight and corresponding lower stall speed.

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Skates97 Grand Master

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@Fly_M20R, nice video, I like the editing.

19 hours ago, Hank said:

Slipping is Not Recommended in long-body Mooneys (L-V) with full flaps.

Us Vintage Mooney owners are free to slip at will!

Very true, and useful for us short body Mooneys. Enroute to Osh we did just that at Ogden (KOGD).

Coming in from the southwest we were almost on a 29nm straight in for runway 03.

The winds were variable and they were advertising 17 on the ATIS. As we approached there were a number of planes shooting practice approaches to 17 so I didn’t bother asking for something different. Besides, it would let me enter a regular pattern and put us right near the FBO. Tower instructed us to report entering a right downwind for 17 so we continued on, staring at the long stretch of 03 out in front of us.

Just under 2 miles from the end of 03, at 5,400’ MSL (KOGD sits at 4,473’) and slowing down to make a left turn onto the downwind tower called up.

Tower: “Mooney 1015 Echo, winds are calm, do you want runway three?”
Me: (After a quick glance at my location and the 8,000’+ length of 03) “Sure, we can do whatever is easiest for you.”
Tower: “Mooney 1015 Echo, runway three, cleared to land.”
Me: “Runway three, cleared to land, 15 Echo.”

I am sure that he figured it was easier for me to come straight in and it also kept me out of the area that he had two guys on practice approaches. I pulled the power, slowed to 120 mph, threw out the gear, put the left rudder to the floor, and began an elevator ride down in a full sideslip. The VSI was pegged but Flight Aware showed my last two hits at 1,273 fpm and 1,676 fpm. With 8,170’ of runway to work with I wasn’t concerned, and we touched down about halfway down and rolled out to the end.

I didn't have my cameras going but my wife took this on her phone.

 

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Hank Grand Master

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Wow, @Skates97! Cathy is good! I like the shadow, too.

I am more comfortable slipping the other way, right rudder and left aileron. But I've never done one quite that long . . . . Guess I need a little more practice. Did you maintain 120 mph the whole slip, or shed some speed as the runway approached? 

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