Oil filter stuck

[rotorman]

I've done all my oil changes since I bought 3514H around 1995. The filters came of without a fuss and I never had a leak. A couple of years ago I convert it to an IO 350 A3B6 so it uses a different filter which was installed by the shop that did the conversion. At the first oil change it was stuck so hard I had to find a 6 point wrench to loosen it as the12 point I used for all those years rounded the nut. When I installed the fresh filter I made sure it wasn't on too tight. At the next oil change I found it still  hard to break free even though I know I didn't over-tighten it. The last oil change was done by a shop during annual and they must have made sure it wasn't coming loose,  So today the only way I was able to get that filter off was to grab the nut with a set of 18 in plyers and pulled with everything I had and finally it started to turn but not before the entire filter was distorted. There seems to something about this 48110-2 filter that causes it to stick. Anyone else using this filter find this to be the case?   

[RLCarter]

I’ve seen this on motorcycles before, correct torque is key but still takes an act of Congress to remove 

[MikeOH]

Do you use Dow Corning DC4 grease on the oil filter, or just engine oil?

I use DC4 on my 48110 filter and never have an issue removing.

I also sprung the $90 for this pre-set torque wrench to install and remove the filter: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/AA472.php

[A64Pilot]

If you use a Tempest filter it specifically says not to use any lube at all, really felt wrong to me, but it’s worked fine.

Who would have thought the manufacturer would be right?

This is as far as I know for Tempest only, but a 48110-2 is a Tempest I believe?

 

[PT20J]

Tempest, no lube. Champions use DC-4. If it is stuck, use an automotive band type oil filter wrench to remove it.

 

 

[GeeBee]

Yep, when they get stuck, use a band type wrench and get low on the filter near the base as it is the strongest part to take the compression of the band without denting.

I've found if you torque them right, they don't stick. The Tempest tool which I really like but does not fit my IO-550 because there is not enough room between the filter top and the standby alternator is preset at 17 ft-pounds. Tempest says 16-18 ft-pounds. I do 16 and you still have to "grunt" to get it loose by the bolt top, but it will loosen nicely.

[PT20J]

I can’t get the torque wrench on my IO-360-A3B6 filter either. I just turn them 3/4 turn after the gasket makes contact like an auto filter and they don’t leak and come off easily. Really, a torque spec doesn’t make a lot of sense with a rubber gasket. I’m pretty sure that the spec is just to keep from over tightening.

[A64Pilot]

If you want to torque but a torque wrench won’t fit, use a regular wrench and a fish scale. If wrench is 12” long 16 lbs on the scale that's 90 degrees from the wrench of course, 6” wrench, 32 lbs. The math is simple.

https://www.norbar.com/Support/Calculators/Torque-Wrench-Extension-Formula

Apparently there is an app for that  

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj99O_Ykqz_AhUxkoQIHR7SDg4QFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fapps.apple.com%2Fus%2Fapp%2Ftorque-wrench-extension-calc%2Fid454116878&usg=AOvVaw2viTM3VZP-4f-dQ0Bn9kPI

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj99O_Ykqz_AhUxkoQIHR7SDg4QFnoECBgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dapp.TorqueWrenchCalculator%26hl%3Den_US%26gl%3DUS&usg=AOvVaw3iL6HxeKRzqN8gHnkCx-57

[A64Pilot]

8 hours ago, PT20J said:

I can’t get the torque wrench on my IO-360-A3B6 filter either. I just turn them 3/4 turn after the gasket makes contact like an auto filter and they don’t leak and come off easily. Really, a torque spec doesn’t make a lot of sense with a rubber gasket. I’m pretty sure that the spec is just to keep from over tightening.

Actually torquing any fastener can be argued to not make sense, because it’s really not as accurate as using crush washers or the wrench arc torque method.

https://www.enginelabs.com/news/back-to-basics-torque-angle-explained-and-demonstrated/

Reason is because what your doing by torquing a faster is stretching it or compressing something, if thread pitch is known then the exact amount of stretch or compression can be known by the degrees of the arc,  the further it’s turned them more a faster is stretched. A torque wrench doesn’t measure stretch just torque applied so it’s not as accurate, but it is easier and faster. 

So in other words the snug it, then 3/4 turn may be more precise in compressing the gasket than using a torque wrench, because among other things an oil filter in Wisconsin in February is going to take a LOT more torque to get the same compression as one in Fl in July.

[rotorman]

Good suggestions. Thanks for the replies. The part that I don't get is why the 48110-1 filter I used for years never stuck. I don't have one of those filters to compare but I think the -2 filter I'm using now has a thicker rubber seal. When it contacts it flattens and has more contact surface causing the sticking.  

[JimB]

I have had success with using a strap wrench on both cars and aircraft when needed. 

 

[rotorman]

19 hours ago, JimB said:

I have had success with using a strap wrench on both cars and aircraft when needed. 

 

The problem I would have had with this kind of tool is the lever arm is too short. My filter was really stuck. My 18 inch slip joint plyers have a lever arm of about 12 inches. It took both hands on the plyers and pulling a couple of times with all I had to finally break it loose. I applied so much force that the entire filter distorted. It had to have been 150 to 200 ft-lbs. Truly an extreme case. Maybe the installer didn't use any lube.

[JimB]

58 minutes ago, rotorman said:

The problem I would have had with this kind of tool is the lever arm is too short. My filter was really stuck. My 18 inch slip joint plyers have a lever arm of about 12 inches. It took both hands on the plyers and pulling a couple of times with all I had to finally break it loose. I applied so much force that the entire filter distorted. It had to have been 150 to 200 ft-lbs. Truly an extreme case. Maybe the installer didn't use any lube.

Fully understand. The problem is that the recommended torque on these filters is pretty high at 16-18 ft/lbs.  

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, rotorman said:

The problem I would have had with this kind of tool is the lever arm is too short. My filter was really stuck. My 18 inch slip joint plyers have a lever arm of about 12 inches. It took both hands on the plyers and pulling a couple of times with all I had to finally break it loose. I applied so much force that the entire filter distorted. It had to have been 150 to 200 ft-lbs. Truly an extreme case. Maybe the installer didn't use any lube.

In my experience the pre-lubed Tempest filters are hardest to take off if you *do* use lube.   I failed to wipe the oil off the sealing surface once and had a very, very hard time getting that one off.    If you just follow the instructions and not lube it, they're generally easy to get off.    If they do get sufficient oil on them they're harder to remove.

Strap wrenches work well, but a 1" box-end wrench is my go-to when it gets difficult to get off.

I bought a new Ford Ranger that has the oil filter in an odd location, and while I managed to get a strap filter in there to get it off, I discovered that a lot of people use these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002SR53A

Applying removal torque tightens the grip on it, like a strap wrench does, but this may provide access if there isn't space for a strap wrench or other tool.   I haven't used it yet, but it might work on an airplane as well.

[GeeBee]

I have several strap wrenches including one like JimB's above but the one that does the best, weirdly, is the Penzoil strap wrench made out of plastic. I don't know why, but if I can't get a filter to budge, it always gets the job done. I can't explain it but it just works really good and it's cheap!

https://www.amazon.com/Custom-Accessories-19425-Wrench-Pennzoil/dp/B0058I0T7S/ref=sr_1_5?hvadid=516871023049&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9010778&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=15641243085195409308&hvtargid=kwd-1257502036018&hydadcr=29035_10165969&keywords=pennzoil+strap+wrench&qid=1686067340&sr=8-5

[EricJ]

28 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

I have several strap wrenches including one like JimB's above but the one that does the best, weirdly, is the Penzoil strap wrench made out of plastic. I don't know why, but if I can't get a filter to budge, it always gets the job done. I can't explain it but it just works really good and it's cheap!

https://www.amazon.com/Custom-Accessories-19425-Wrench-Pennzoil/dp/B0058I0T7S/ref=sr_1_5?hvadid=516871023049&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9010778&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=15641243085195409308&hvtargid=kwd-1257502036018&hydadcr=29035_10165969&keywords=pennzoil+strap+wrench&qid=1686067340&sr=8-5

They're about half that at Harbor Freight.    Same stuff.   I use plastic ones as well, but I don't remember where I got them.

https://www.harborfreight.com/rubber-strap-wrench-set-2-piece-69373.html

 

[0TreeLemur]

On 6/4/2023 at 11:51 PM, PT20J said:

I can’t get the torque wrench on my IO-360-A3B6 filter either. I just turn them 3/4 turn after the gasket makes contact like an auto filter and they don’t leak and come off easily. Really, a torque spec doesn’t make a lot of sense with a rubber gasket. I’m pretty sure that the spec is just to keep from over tightening.

I bought a shallow socket that allows me to get on the filter with a torque wrench.   3/8" drive, the socket is only about 1-1/2" long.  It was a real tight fit on our previous C, there seems to be a bit more room on our '83 J. 

[PT20J]

2 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

I bought a shallow socket that allows me to get on the filter with a torque wrench.   3/8" drive, the socket is only about 1-1/2" long.  It was a real tight fit on our previous C, there seems to be a bit more room on our '83 J. 

It's not a problem with the A3B6D. The A3B6 has the filter mounted farther aft and the lip where the top cowling mounts interferes. I'm pretty sure that the Tempest wrench would fit because I have a 1" ratchet box end wrench that will get on it.

[0TreeLemur]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

It's not a problem with the A3B6D. The A3B6 has the filter mounted farther aft and the lip where the top cowling mounts interferes. I'm pretty sure that the Tempest wrench would fit because I have a 1" ratchet box end wrench that will get on it.

Score one for the A3B6D! 

[rotorman]

On 6/6/2023 at 8:53 AM, EricJ said:

In my experience the pre-lubed Tempest filters are hardest to take off if you *do* use lube.   I failed to wipe the oil off the sealing surface once and had a very, very hard time getting that one off.    If you just follow the instructions and not lube it, they're generally easy to get off.    If they do get sufficient oil on them they're harder to remove.

Strap wrenches work well, but a 1" box-end wrench is my go-to when it gets difficult to get off.

I bought a new Ford Ranger that has the oil filter in an odd location, and while I managed to get a strap filter in there to get it off, I discovered that a lot of people use these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002SR53A

Applying removal torque tightens the grip on it, like a strap wrench does, but this may provide access if there isn't space for a strap wrench or other tool.   I haven't used it yet, but it might work on an airplane as well.

Interesting tool. I have never seen on of like it. And cheap. But I'm not sure there is enough room between filter and the firewall when you add the drive to the tool.. I was using a 1" claw on a 3/8 drive that worked well but it is a 12 point minus the opening so not enough grip with this filter. I ended with a rounded nut.