First post, an introduction and some questions.

[FADEC]

Hi all,

 

Long time anonymous stalker first time poster.  I have decided to make the jump in to airplane ownership and have settled in on Mooney’s.  From reading previous posts I know I need to provide some basic information to get helpful and meaningful advice /mentorship so here it goes.  

 

About Me

I am in the upstate of South Carolina and a helicopter guy by trade I have over 5k hours with a commercial / instrument ticket, I also have the old single engine land private with about 110 hours, 10 of those hours were flown in the last year, the other 100 where about 20 years ago.  I fully plan to get my FW instrument add-on using my new plane hopefully with the same CFI I get my Moony training from. My family consist of my airplane supportive wife of nearly 24 years, 7-year-old son.  We also have a 22-year-old son in the service who is married and blessed us with a new granddaughter.

 

Required Mission.

The plan will have two primary missions, and one fun mission

1.)   Flying the wife and the youngest see the in-laws. That is a 200nm trip, and in all honesty, there will be some trips where I drop them off and fly back home and pick them up a few days’ latter.

2.)   Flying to wife and the youngest to go see the oldest and his family.  Currently that is a 260nm trip with where he is currently stationed.  When the future move happens, I would plan could continue to use the plane up to 1000NM max.  That range cover most places he could end up out to Texas / and Colorado.

3.)   The fun mission will be just my youngest and I exploring the east coast and watching baseball at some different parks.

 

For the missions above, I have settled in on M20F or the M20J. I did consider a M20K but I’m not confident that I will be able to stray far enough away from my helicopter roots to be flying above 12,000 feet. (Unless IMC I have a FIRM 1 scream rule in helicopters).  I plan on using the airplane around 10 hours a month expecting to lose 2 months to the annual / maintenance so around 100 hours a year. I do have an additional 5 hours for the first 6 months to comfortable with the airplane and work on the instrument add-on.

 

First Questions.

 

1.)   The airport I will keep my plane at currently has all of its hangers occupied, and has a 6 year wait list.  My initial plan would be to keep it outside tiedown.

a.     I worry that if I find a hanger that is farther away, it will reduce the amount the plane is used.

b.     I would buy a cover for the plane while it sits on the ramp (recommendations) or would a cover do more damage in the long run?

2.)   From reading on here I have drawn the conclusion that getting a plane with a Ray Jay turbo normalizer would be a possibility.  It would aid in climbing above 5,000 feet and if I ever get over my fear of heights, I mean helicopter roots it would allow me to fly in the mid-teens to low FL’s.  

a.     If the Ray Jay break or has issues, can it just be labeled inop and not used, or does a inop Ray Jay render the airplane unairworthy.

b.     If I just stare and the nob for the first year and never touch it would that be bad for the system?

c.     How hard is it to learn how to use it, correctly?

d.     If use it incorrectly will it cause instant damage to the engine?

3.)   With Mooney no longer in business, is there a concern of parts breaking or wearing out that will be unreplaceable? 

4.)   I have never been in or sat in a Mooney, in fact the only GA airplanes I have ever been in are 172’s. Should that be step 1 in my process.

 

 

To ensure my first post isn’t mistaken as a manifesto I’ll stop my questions there.  I will say that from this forum seem like the Mooney community is absolutely fantastic!

 

Andy

[toto]

Lots of questions about a turbonormalized F or J, but you’ve already decided against a K?

 

[wombat]

Great first post.  Thanks for all the info.   To me it seems like you've put a lot of thought into this already.

Since all of your planned flight ranges and loads are well within just about any airplane's capabilities, you don't really need it to be a Mooney.  Non other plane can be quite as awesome as a Mooney though.    So if you want a Mooney and you can find one that fits your budtget then you should get one.

So the questions I've got time/motivation/ideas to answer:

1.a: I agree.

1.b: A cover will damage the paint and maybe the windows, but not having a cover will damage EVERYTHING.  On the other hand, covers take time to put on and take off, and you need a place to store them, and when they are wet when you store them, it can get nasty.    I would strongly recommend having a cover over as much of the fuselage as you can and using it.   Maybe even get wing covers too.

2.all: I don't think you need a turbo at all.    But the highest point in South Carolina is 3,500'.    I would say you don't need a turbo unless you are regularly going to be flying over 10,000'. If you want one, then get it. I don't think learning how to use one is going to be a challenge at all.   If you get it, use it. It won't be nearly the most complex part of fixed wing system management.

3:   Kinda, but almost all the parts are either manufacturable by owners (Owner Produced Parts), findable as salvage or new old stock, or something.   Keep in mind this is coming from a guy whose second Mooney purchase is supposed to close on Friday. 

4: If you fit in a 172 you'll fit in a Mooney.  If you struggle to fit in a 172, you'll struggle more to fit in a Mooney, but you'll still fit.   You should totally go get a ride in one before spending any money though.

[T. Peterson]

26 minutes ago, FADEC said:

 

Hi all,

 

Long time anonymous stalker first time poster.  I have decided to make the jump in to airplane ownership and have settled in on Mooney’s.  From reading previous posts I know I need to provide some basic information to get helpful and meaningful advice /mentorship so here it goes.  

 

About Me

I am in the upstate of South Carolina and a helicopter guy by trade I have over 5k hours with a commercial / instrument ticket, I also have the old single engine land private with about 110 hours, 10 of those hours were flown in the last year, the other 100 where about 20 years ago.  I fully plan to get my FW instrument add-on using my new plane hopefully with the same CFI I get my Moony training from. My family consist of my airplane supportive wife of nearly 24 years, 7-year-old son.  We also have a 22-year-old son in the service who is married and blessed us with a new granddaughter.

 

Required Mission.

The plan will have two primary missions, and one fun mission

1.)   Flying the wife and the youngest see the in-laws. That is a 200nm trip, and in all honesty, there will be some trips where I drop them off and fly back home and pick them up a few days’ latter.

2.)   Flying to wife and the youngest to go see the oldest and his family.  Currently that is a 260nm trip with where he is currently stationed.  When the future move happens, I would plan could continue to use the plane up to 1000NM max.  That range cover most places he could end up out to Texas / and Colorado.

3.)   The fun mission will be just my youngest and I exploring the east coast and watching baseball at some different parks.

 

For the missions above, I have settled in on M20F or the M20J. I did consider a M20K but I’m not confident that I will be able to stray far enough away from my helicopter roots to be flying above 12,000 feet. (Unless IMC I have a FIRM 1 scream rule in helicopters).  I plan on using the airplane around 10 hours a month expecting to lose 2 months to the annual / maintenance so around 100 hours a year. I do have an additional 5 hours for the first 6 months to comfortable with the airplane and work on the instrument add-on.

 

First Questions.

 

1.)   The airport I will keep my plane at currently has all of its hangers occupied, and has a 6 year wait list.  My initial plan would be to keep it outside tiedown.

a.     I worry that if I find a hanger that is farther away, it will reduce the amount the plane is used.

b.     I would buy a cover for the plane while it sits on the ramp (recommendations) or would a cover do more damage in the long run?

2.)   From reading on here I have drawn the conclusion that getting a plane with a Ray Jay turbo normalizer would be a possibility.  It would aid in climbing above 5,000 feet and if I ever get over my fear of heights, I mean helicopter roots it would allow me to fly in the mid-teens to low FL’s.  

a.     If the Ray Jay break or has issues, can it just be labeled inop and not used, or does a inop Ray Jay render the airplane unairworthy.

b.     If I just stare and the nob for the first year and never touch it would that be bad for the system?

c.     How hard is it to learn how to use it, correctly?

d.     If use it incorrectly will it cause instant damage to the engine?

3.)   With Mooney no longer in business, is there a concern of parts breaking or wearing out that will be unreplaceable? 

4.)   I have never been in or sat in a Mooney, in fact the only GA airplanes I have ever been in are 172’s. Should that be step 1 in my process.

 

 

To ensure my first post isn’t mistaken as a manifesto I’ll stop my questions there.  I will say that from this forum seem like the Mooney community is absolutely fantastic!

 

Andy

Hi Andy,

Welcome aboard!

 I would not consider a turbo unless you’re routinely flying more than 400 miles. From the description of your mission I suggest a 201J. Others will eventually chime in with lots of suggestions. Carefully consider them all and you will make a good decision I’m sure.
I too was a rotor head, USMC CH-46, 1982-1993.

Semper Fi

 

[FADEC]

@toto Yes in a way I have. My logic is and please correct me if I'm wrong is the following.  If I get a F or J that has a turbo it does not raise the price that much, and if I choose not to use it has little effect on the hourly cost to operate the airplane.  While if I get a K the turbo is always there and always adding to the hourly operation cost.  I have operated at some pretty high altitudes MSL wise but it was always with in a few 1000 feet agl.  I won't even toss the wife or kid under the buss, I'm not sure if I'm okay with flying on O2.  I admit this stance is from ignorance, but with a F or J that has a turbo I get over it great I can use it, if I don't then no skin off my back.  But if I get the K on the hopes I will be okay up high and I'm not then I'm paying for a capability that is not adding value.

[FADEC]

@wombat I am from Washington as well, grew up in the Tri-Cites, then spend about 10 years stationed at JBLM, and lived in Yelm!  Thanks for the answers, the cover sounds like a solid yes. While flying IFR/IMC in the helicopter higher tends to lead to a better ride, I fly part 135 and due to the single engine climb requirement I can't get above 8,000k but there are times I wish I could get just a little bit higher, the min IFR alt from the upstate to the Nashville area in 10k (If you go direct).

[FADEC]

@T. Peterson CH/MH-47 guy!  I love the 47 best helicopter ever you can take that thing anywhere! Sure its baby brother is just as capable!

[T. Peterson]

1 hour ago, FADEC said:

@T. Peterson CH/MH-47 guy!  I love the 47 best helicopter ever you can take that thing anywhere! Sure its baby brother is just as capable!

47 is still in service. Frogs have been eaten by the Osprey!

[Pinecone]

I am helicopter rated and a former A-10 guy (back in the days when 500 AGL was high), but love my 252.

But I will go up into the teens for a 200 mile trip for good winds.  More than 200, I normally go high.

The turbo will still be there and subject to maintenance.  And it will cause a weight penalty.

Remember the adages.  Buy your last plane first.  And Buy once, Cry once.

[LANCECASPER]

18 hours ago, FADEC said:

3.)   With Mooney no longer in business, is there a concern of parts breaking or wearing out that will be unreplaceable? 

This will come as a surprise to the loyal dedicated Mooney employees in Kerrville, TX who are currently working 5 days a week producing parts, answering engineering questions, servicing Mooneys at the Factory Service Center, etc.  https://www.mooney.com/

Mooney is not producing airplanes now, but they are supporting the fleet. On many parts there is a wait. They also do have many parts in stock. A Mooney Service Center can log in and tell you if it's in stock and if not the approximate wait time. However many of the parts in Mooneys are not Mooney-specific (ie, engine, prop, avionics, gauges, lights, tires, brakes, spark plugs, magnetos, hoses, switches, etc, etc)

[Utah20Gflyer]

If your standard mission is 260 miles I’d skip the turbo.  It’s not going to be worth taking the time to climb to where the turbo would make a difference.  
 

For a while I was commuting from SLC Utah to St George Utah which is right around that distance. Typically it always made sense to climb the minimum amount to clear terrain.  Higher altitudes almost always showed a longer travel time.   In a G model Mooney I was doing the trip in an hour and 35 minutes on average.  I doubt a turbo would save you more than 5-10 min tops. 
 

I’ve heard turbos mainly help with flying east as winds up high can be strong and if you are going west the advantage of the turbo will be offset by the headwind.   A lot of times will be better to duck under as much as you can.  
 

Personally if I were to get a turbo’d Mooney it would be a K model to 252/262 spec preferably with some de ice capability.   

[Schllc]

Lots of good reasons to get a turbo. 
Plenty of valid reasons it isn’t “needed” as well..

That being said, not a lot of people who own a turbo and are (edited) not anxious to go back to no turbo. There must be a reason for that.   

[kortopates]

Lots of good reasons to get a turbo. 
Plenty of valid reasons it isn’t “needed” as well..
That being said, not a lot of people who own a turbo and are anxious to go back to no turbo. There must be a reason for that.   

did you mean not anxious to go back to NA?
I would personally hate to go back to NA engine. I know [mention=15998]Schllc[/mention] has turbo experience but a great many don’t understand all the pros.
It’s not just about how far you go. For me it has greatly improved my dispatch ability. Many a time i would have cancelled if i had to stay low in IMC or bad turbulence but the turbo doubled my options allowing me to climb above into VMC and typically smooth air. I also appreciate the continuous climb power at near 1K FPM. The NA folks often cite they have a service ceiling plenty high enough to upper teens or even within Class A, but it’s not really practical for them because of extended climb times and then only with several hundred mile trips. But with Turbo climbing high can help with most flights over an hour. And it does on most every xctry trip.
If it’s a traveling plane i wouldn’t want to be without.
The cons - mostly sucking O2 which understandably is not for everyone. Plus a bit higher operating cost. Which for improved dispatch ability is more than a fair trade for those of us that benefit from it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FADEC]

22 hours ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

If your standard mission is 260 miles I’d skip the turbo.  It’s not going to be worth taking the time to climb to where the turbo would make a difference.  
 

For a while I was commuting from SLC Utah to St George Utah which is right around that distance. Typically it always made sense to climb the minimum amount to clear terrain.  Higher altitudes almost always showed a longer travel time.   In a G model Mooney I was doing the trip in an hour and 35 minutes on average.  I doubt a turbo would save you more than 5-10 min tops. 
 

I’ve heard turbos mainly help with flying east as winds up high can be strong and if you are going west the advantage of the turbo will be offset by the headwind.   A lot of times will be better to duck under as much as you can.  
 

Personally if I were to get a turbo’d Mooney it would be a K model to 252/262 spec preferably with some de ice capability.   

I spent some time stranded I  St. George Utah. The Bear Paw cafe has been the best breakfast I have ever had!

[Utah20Gflyer]

2 hours ago, FADEC said:

I spent some time stranded I  St. George Utah. The Bear Paw cafe has been the best breakfast I have ever had!

Is it on the field?  I haven’t tried it.  

[FADEC]

5 minutes ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

Is it on the field?  I haven’t tried it.  

It was in town, back in 2011ish! 

[rickseeman]

I'm a turbohead. I've had a M20F, 231 and an Ovation. But in your application I would buy the best 201 I could afford and you could easily end up enjoying it for the rest of your life. It has a great combination of everything. Efficient, lowest maintenance, great engine. You will be very happy. (When I was younger I had a TH-55. Those were good times.) Enjoy the trip.

[The Other Red Baron]

On 4/18/2023 at 10:04 PM, FADEC said:

a.     I worry that if I find a hanger that is farther away, it will reduce the amount the plane is used.

We were on tie downs 5 minutes away from the airport.  A hangar opened up at an airport 25 minutes away and we jumped on it.  Our flying dropped dramatically (but this was also in 2021 during covid so your mileage may vary)