Help! Avionics $***show - how to proceed

[GeeBee]

His paying twice for the GTN unit goes a long way before a judge about proving he was an innocent victim, so while the question may come up, his defense is, "I did not know at the time it was an illegal scheme and the fact that I paid twice for the unit proves my innocence." Further he can state, "I am a victim too, but worse this shop has sat idly by and victimized me twice, and they have now acknowledged to me they allowed their larcenous manager to sabotage my airplane for THEIR own enrichment. There is no evidence the manager absconded with the labor or parts money for those actions, indeed to this day, the shop still retains that money."

Also, nothing says he has to file all three actions at once. 

My view is if I am going to get roasted, everyone gets some time on the spit.

[ZuluZulu]

2 hours ago, GeeBee said:

His paying twice for the GTN unit goes a long way before a judge about proving he was an innocent victim, so while the question may come up, his defense is, "I did not know at the time it was an illegal scheme and the fact that I paid twice for the unit proves my innocence." Further he can state, "I am a victim too, but worse this shop has sat idly by and victimized me twice, and they have now acknowledged to me they allowed their larcenous manager to sabotage my airplane for THEIR own enrichment. There is no evidence the manager absconded with the labor or parts money for those actions, indeed to this day, the shop still retains that money."

Not following this theory. A reasonable actor doesn’t pay again for something he already paid for and thereby gained the legal right to insist upon performance from the seller. Being asked to pay again is a direct repudiation of your rights and arguably a waiver of those rights if you comply. You would only pay twice if you know the first payment is not legitimate and you want to avoid attention on the first payment. 

[ZuluZulu]

2 hours ago, GeeBee said:

Also, nothing says he has to file all three actions at once. 

Nothing says he has to file three actions for one recovery, either. The court has a long memory. 

2 hours ago, GeeBee said:

My view is if I am going to get roasted, everyone gets some time on the spit.

Which constitutes bad faith and abuse of legal process, since the action is brought for an improper purpose. A great way to guarantee angering the judge. 

[GeeBee]

6 minutes ago, ZuluZulu said:

Not following this theory. A reasonable actor doesn’t pay again for something he already paid for and thereby gained the legal right to insist upon performance from the seller. Being asked to pay again is a direct repudiation of your rights. You would only pay twice if you know the first payment is not legitimate and you want to avoid attention on the first payment. 

He paid twice so he could get use of the unit. The unit had no value because of Garmin's policy. He had no choice under the circumstances regardless if he was complicit or victim. He can easily argue victim status and in any event, the shop's sabotaging of his airplane occurred before the GTN acquisition. Indeed he could argue that he thought the offer of the discounted Garmin unit was an apology from the shop.

[GeeBee]

4 minutes ago, ZuluZulu said:

Nothing says he has to file three actions for one recovery, either. The court has a long memory. 

Which constitutes bad faith and abuse of legal process, since the action is brought for an improper purpose. A great way to guarantee angering the judge. 

I think what would anger the judge is to find out that this man paid twice to make it right with the shop and the shop did nothing to refund him the work they did as a result of their malfeasance. Hey, it's small claims court, you're in, you're out. This is not a Superior Court action.

[ZuluZulu]

34 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

He paid twice so he could get use of the unit. The unit had no value because of Garmin's policy. He had no choice under the circumstances regardless if he was complicit or victim. He can easily argue victim status and in any event, the shop's sabotaging of his airplane occurred before the GTN acquisition. Indeed he could argue that he thought the offer of the discounted Garmin unit was an apology from the shop.

If you’re a legitimate purchaser, you sue to enforce your rights when asked by a seller to pay again to get the benefit of the bargain you contracted for. You don’t just pay again and hope for the best. Breach of contract is the cause of action, not some convoluted, paper-thin “oh poor me, I’m the victim” story cooked up afterward to explain multiple irrational decisions directly contrary to the plaintiff’s claimed rights. This is burning your house down to get rid of a housefly.

Anyway, now that I’ve demonstrated why I wanted to stay out of this thread (damn it!), I’m off to apply for a job at the internet law firm of Bing Google LLP.

[MikeOH]

The glaring disconnect here is the appearance that the shop has double-dipped; IIRC the shop made an insurance claim for the loss due to theft (manager ordered the unit from Garmin using the shop's money) then 'gave it' to the OP.  If the shop took money from the insurance for that claim and has NOW taken money from the OP, as well, it would seem the shop is flirting with insurance fraud: claiming a loss that doesn't exist, granted, after the fact.

[Echo]

Goalstop, super sorry to read of your nightmare.  That is a rough learning experience.  I wish you blue skies.  If I was Garmin, I would help make you whole.  Based on the shop manager, an agent of the MSC damaging your plane as well as defrauding you I hope karma and the universe smite him.  Hang tough!

[glbtrottr]

Anyone know of any avionics shops in Georgia outside of Hartsfield that service mooneys? Asking for a friend


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[1980Mooney]

This discussion is getting loony.  I don’t understand why otherwise logical people are automatically leaping to the conclusion that the shop received an insurance reimbursement for the GTN and at the same time was paid the full price for the GTN by the OP.  It has been clearly stated that the insurance company was involved to try to recover the stolen goods for return to the MSC. Logically if they could not recover the stolen goods, they would seek on behalf the MSC to recover, monies equal to the cost of the goods (ie get the plane owners to pay the MSC) which is what the OP paid to the MSC. 
 

Additionally, this “OP paid for the GTN twice“ statement has no relevance. The OP paid the MSC once for the GTN.  He unfortunately also paid 80% of that amount (after getting the phantom 20% discount) to the personal account of an individual who just happened to be the Avionics manager.  The theft and deceptive sale was by and with the avionics manager.
 

Edited March 15, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[MikeOH]

I did NOT leap to the conclusion; how you read that out of my comment about "appearance" I don't know.  It is certainly a POSSIBILITY.  Why else would the shop contact the insurance company but to file a claim to recover their loss: the shop paid Garmin, the OP paid the crook manager.  I did NOT see where the OP originally paid the shop for the Garmin...he paid the shop for the install.

[hubcap]

Am I the only person here who thinks the buyer was knowingly involved in a scam to defraud the owner of the shop? He knew he was depriving the owner of money. I have trouble finding any sympathy for the buyer.

[1980Mooney]

3 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

I did NOT leap to the conclusion; how you read that out of my comment about "appearance" I don't know.  It is certainly a POSSIBILITY.  Why else would the shop contact the insurance company but to file a claim to recover their loss: the shop paid Garmin, the OP paid the crook manager.  I did NOT see where the OP originally paid the shop for the Garmin...he paid the shop for the install.

There is no appearance of double dipping by the shop. There is no indication that the shop failed to tell the insurance company that the OP paid the MSC in full. Why even intimate that “.  If the shop took money from the insurance for that claim and has NOW taken money from the OP, as well, it would seem the shop is flirting with insurance fraud: ”

[alextstone]

1 minute ago, hubcap said:

Am I the only person here who thinks the buyer was knowingly involved in a scam to defraud the owner of the shop?

No, you are not.  The OP is not a victim…

[MikeOH]

4 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

There is no appearance of double dipping by the shop. There is no indication that the shop failed to tell the insurance company that the OP paid the MSC in full. Why even intimate that “.  If the shop took money from the insurance for that claim and has NOW taken money from the OP, as well, it would seem the shop is flirting with insurance fraud: ”

He only RECENTLY paid the shop for the Garmin.  At the start of this thread it did NOT appear he had paid the shop "in full" but only for the install.  The fact the insurance company was involved is pretty good evidence that the shop filed a claim (why would they do that if the OP had already paid them in FULL??).  DId the insurance pay out the claim to the shop BEFORE the OP recently paid the shop?  Seems a possibility.

[Yetti]

Scanning the thread.   Not sure if this has been asked, but what documentation does the OP have?   Like canceled checks and invoices to whom and from whom.  Do you have "shop" documents?  Install with "Shop" Name on them? 

 

I would be in the not responsible for fraud at the shop, will return the unit when my funds are returned.   If you used a credit card then would be contacting them.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Yetti

[GeeBee]

Yes there is appearance of double dipping. All arrests in GA are on the web and there is no indication of an arrest upon this service manager. So criminal charges have not been pursued which means there is restitution somewhere in this pile. The shop owner by his own admissions has said his shop was deceptive in a previous repair upon the airplane. How much and to whom? We don't know, but a small claims actions has some nice features to it.

1.Everyone is sworn in at the start so anything and everything said is automatically under penalty of perjury

2. Rules of evidence are relaxed

3.The plaintiff is allowed to address the court in plain language and without the need for a lawyer. The magistrate is supposed to protect rights and benefits

4.The plaintiff can issue subpoena to the service manager, the shop records and the insurance company.

5. The maximum amount is 10K which would work here

Have everyone put all their cards face up on the table and get to the bottom. 

 

[Pinecone]

17 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

I think the insurance claim was for the GTN650xi that was on the asset ledger for the MSC - which the mgr stole and sold to the OP.  - Has nothing to do with service.

If you go to court I suspect the first thing the judge will ask the OP is "if you were honest why did you think you could buy that Garmin box for 20% less than the MSC was selling it for and 20% less than everyone else has to pay for the same thing at the MSC where you had it installed?"   As others have said this will be very uncomfortable for the OP.

The manager stated to the OP that he could and would order the unit directly and pass on the savings on the mark up to the OP.

Then he stole the unit from the company inventory.

So, while the OP should have questioned this practice, he did not realize that he was receiving a stolen unit.  Just that the DoA was screwing his company out of the markup.

[1980Mooney]

4 hours ago, Pinecone said:

The manager stated to the OP that he could and would order the unit directly and pass on the savings on the mark up to the OP.

Then he stole the unit from the company inventory.

So, while the OP should have questioned this practice, he did not realize that he was receiving a stolen unit.  Just that the DoA was screwing his company out of the markup.

The OP bought the GTN directly from "Joe Blow"

• "Purchased GTN650xi directly from the manager"

The OP did not buy the GTN directly from Garmin

The OP did not buy the GTN from an Authorized Garmin Dealer

There is no sales receipt from Garmin or the Authorized Garmin Dealer

If there is any sales record it will be:

• A $10K check to the personal account of "Joe Blow"
• A $10K Venmo or Zelle transfer to the personal account of "Joe Blow"

Alternatively it may have just been a bag of cash.....

And no one has mentioned "Where is and who paid the sales tax due to the State and City"?

• AOPA notes that there is a 4% State and 1-4% Local tax on the sale of Aviation Products in Georgia
• The State of Georgia and Local City have been defrauded out of $500-800 

The more this “Discount Scheme” is discussed the worse it looks for the OP. Unwitting or intentional it puts the OP in a bad light and raises the question that the OP could be part of the scheme - taking it to court could bring all this to the attention of a Judge raising the question of not only highlighting the crime of the Service Manager but also the intention and possible participation of the OP. - and could result in 2 charges

• Georgia Code §16-8-7(a) - Theft by receiving stolen property
• Failure to pay taxes

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[GeeBee]

Private sales come under the "garage sale" exemption in the state of Georgia. The shop manager who said he would purchase the unit for the OP from Garmin is on the hook. Even aircraft sales between two private individuals are considered "garage sale" exempt.

By the way, 4% is the state base, most localities are in the range of 7%.

[cleatus99]

The part I find interesting, is the statement individual disabled aircraft, ie sabotage. Sounds like a federal crime to me.

 

[chriscalandro]

The shop you “bought it from” did the installation right?

and they seemingly did that installation poorly correct?

 

where did the shop think the unit they were installing came from?

 

this isn’t your problem. It’s theirs. If they disabled any part or your function of your aircraft, that’s a major felony. 
 

filing a false report of stolen property - also a felony I believe. 
 

stop or reverse that second payment asap. Call Garmin, if the shop disabled your airplane in any way start the legal proceedings recess immediately. 

[hubcap]

OP admitted to conspiring to defraud the owner of the avionics shop. 

Why don’t one of you Google “doctrine of clean hands” ?

OP is like a drug addict complaining his dealer ripped him off.

[GeeBee]

Except the sabotage occurred before the "unclean event" and the "addict" was hooked by the dealer. He has been to rehab now and he is asking for damages from before the event, not after and for a full accounting of his "rehab". Not unreasonable IMHO.

[glbtrottr]

Ummmmmmgunnaguess this is DLK aviation - Cole doesn’t brag about their deep avionics bench.

If I get stuck in GA or someone asks for a recommendation, this just sounds like waaaaaaay too much skeeze to avoid. Given the cost of installs and alleged size of the shop, I doubt the principals are hurting for money…and it looks like the owners did things on principle time and again and again.

It takes a long time to build a good reputation…and a second to just toss it. This kind of crappy press I’d pay a bit more than the cost of a garmin unit to avoid…but who knows how they grow them folk in Georgia.


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