G3X Touch Check Gear Warning

[RoundTwo]

At 14:15 in this video on the LHS system, the G3X displays CHECK GEAR accompanied by a consistent “woop woop” aural alert.

LHS in a Mooney

I did some Google searching and found a post on BT that said the CHECK GEAR alert is only for the Experimental unit. Can anyone confirm or deny whether the GEAR ALERT is available on the certificated model?

Chuck

[RoundTwo]

It looks like someone else picked up on this as well. I think having the CHECK GEAR alert coming from the G3X is a better option because it comes on much earlier in the approach than the LHS callout at 200’, just in time for a go-around.  I like his response and will be digging into these other “non-essential safety enhancing features” that can be enabled on the G3X.
 

Chuck

 

[PT20J]

I did some research. This requires a G3X with EIS since it requires a discrete input for landing gear configuration to be connected to the GEA 24 and the algorithm uses a combination of low engine power, airspeed, and altitude to alarm. However, this option is only available if the G3X configuration is set to non-certified and that setting is prohibited by the STC.

Skip

[RoundTwo]

4 hours ago, PT20J said:

I did some research. This requires a G3X with EIS since it requires a discrete input for landing gear configuration to be connected to the GEA 24 and the algorithm uses a combination of low engine power, airspeed, and altitude to alarm. However, this option is only available if the G3X configuration is set to non-certified and that setting is prohibited by the STC.

Skip

I’ve got a call into Palmetto to dig further into his information of it being a small deviation which isn’t a problem for his FAA inspector.

[PT20J]

32 minutes ago, RoundTwo said:

I’ve got a call into Palmetto to dig further into his information of it being a small deviation which isn’t a problem for his FAA inspector.

The answer depends a lot on how you ask the question. The fact is that to enable it, you have to put the G3X in a state prohibited by the STC. 

[PT20J]

But, it’s a neat feature. Here’s a description of it from the G3X experimental installation manual.

[PT20J]

There are a number of ways to design the software. The certified/non-certified setting could just block access to enabling features that are not approved by the STC in which case, you could put it in non-certified mode, enable something, and then put it back in certified mode and the enablement would persist. I'm guessing that Garmin isn't that dumb though and putting it back in certified mode would disable all the unapproved features. But, I'll leave that to someone more adventurous than me. 

[RoundTwo]

12 hours ago, PT20J said:

There are a number of ways to design the software. The certified/non-certified setting could just block access to enabling features that are not approved by the STC in which case, you could put it in non-certified mode, enable something, and then put it back in certified mode and the enablement would persist. I'm guessing that Garmin isn't that dumb though and putting it back in certified mode would disable all the unapproved features. But, I'll leave that to someone more adventurous than me. 

I’ve got many thoughts on why this one feature should be lobbied for by the insurance industry but in my specific situation, without EIS, it’s a moot point. 

[Pinecone]

Looking at the list, there are several nice things that I think should be available in all installs.

 

Gear Down

Gear Unsafe

Door Open

Even Pitot Temp warning.

[RoundTwo]

23 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Looking at the list, there are several nice things that I think should be available in all installs.

 

Gear Down

Gear Unsafe

Door Open

Even Pitot Temp warning.

And a few more that would useful.

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Looking at the list, there are several nice things that I think should be available in all installs.

 

Gear Down

Gear Unsafe

Door Open

Even Pitot Temp warning.

The g1000 I fly (Piper) has all of those. Weird they didn’t certify that on the g3x?

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

The g1000 I fly (Piper) has all of those. Weird they didn’t certify that on the g3x?

Probably because the G1000 is certified as a integrated flight deck which means it is integrated into the airframe by the airframe manufacturer. The G3X is just certified as a fancy replacement for a bunch of standard instruments. The G3X mostly integrates with avionics -- the integration with the airframe is pitot static and power and standard engine sensors for the EIS.

[RoundTwo]

2 hours ago, PT20J said:

Probably because the G1000 is certified as an integrated flight deck which means it is integrated into the airframe by the airframe manufacturer. The G3X is just certified as a fancy replacement for a bunch of standard instruments. The G3X mostly integrates with avionics -- the integration with the airframe is pitot static and power and standard engine sensors for the EIS.

Just out of curiosity, do you know if the G1000 Ovations have these features enabled?

[PT20J]

9 minutes ago, RoundTwo said:

Just out of curiosity, do you know if the G1000 Ovations have these features enabled?

Mon clue, but perhaps @Deb can tell us. 

[81X]

On 2/28/2023 at 6:23 AM, RoundTwo said:

It looks like someone else picked up on this as well. I think having the CHECK GEAR alert coming from the G3X is a better option because it comes on much earlier in the approach than the LHS callout at 200’, just in time for a go-around.  I like his response and will be digging into these other “non-essential safety enhancing features” that can be enabled on the G3X.
 

Chuck

 

Evan at Palmetto avionics (one of the most knowledgeable Garmin dealers out there) was one of the main dudes configuring my new avionics and we tied the gear position into my G3X for this very purpose- one more thing to help prevent a gear up.  The alert is pretty cool and prominent.  
 

Also, a shout out to Palmetto Avionics for their work- they made sure they had every part in house before starting work.  In hindsight and after reading more install delay horror stories, it’s clear they were making this efficient for everyone and aren’t scared to ask questions to the powers that be for things that make sense, like this topic.  

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, RoundTwo said:

Just out of curiosity, do you know if the G1000 Ovations have these features enabled?

They are enabled on the Ultra Ovations and Acclaims, both of which have the NXi G1000. It shows on the PFD when either of the Cabin Doors is open, the Gear is down, Alternator failure, Emergency Bus, Low Boost, High Boost, Speed Brakes, Prop De-Ice (if TKS is installed). The Pitot Heat Switch itself shows a light when it is on.

 

The pre-NXi G1000 Mooneys all have a separate annunciator at the top of the center of the panel that shows these items. 

[RoundTwo]

1 hour ago, 81X said:

Evan at Palmetto avionics (one of the most knowledgeable Garmin dealers out there) was one of the main dudes configuring my new avionics and we tied the gear position into my G3X for this very purpose- one more thing to help prevent a gear up.  The alert is pretty cool and prominent.  
 

Also, a shout out to Palmetto Avionics for their work- they made sure they had every part in house before starting work.  In hindsight and after reading more install delay horror stories, it’s clear they were making this efficient for everyone and aren’t scared to ask questions to the powers that be for things that make sense, like this topic.  

I think it’s a pretty nice piece of kit, to have that constant aural alarm. If more people knew this can be done on the certificated G3X, Garmin would be selling a whole lot more EIS setups. I only stumbled onto this because I’m looking at the LHS.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, 81X said:

Evan at Palmetto avionics (one of the most knowledgeable Garmin dealers out there) was one of the main dudes configuring my new avionics and we tied the gear position into my G3X for this very purpose- one more thing to help prevent a gear up.  The alert is pretty cool and prominent.  
 

Also, a shout out to Palmetto Avionics for their work- they made sure they had every part in house before starting work.  In hindsight and after reading more install delay horror stories, it’s clear they were making this efficient for everyone and aren’t scared to ask questions to the powers that be for things that make sense, like this topic.  

I'm still trying to understand how this can be implemented. Is your G3X System Type set to Certified or Non-certified? 

Thanks,

Skip

[To check this, power up while holding down the Menu key until the G3X enters configuration mode. Then select the Systems Options page on the top row and see what System Type is set to.]

[Ragsf15e]

57 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I'm still trying to understand how this can be implemented. Is your G3X System Type set to Certified or Non-certified? 

Thanks,

Skip

[To check this, power up while holding down the Menu key until the G3X enters configuration mode. Then select the Systems Options page on the top row and see what System Type is set to.]

I could see some type of “field approval” (which is probably not quite right) for a gear warning, but it might be a stretch to have the whole system in experimental mode…

[RoundTwo]

9 hours ago, PT20J said:

I'm still trying to understand how this can be implemented. Is your G3X System Type set to Certified or Non-certified? 

Thanks,

Skip

[To check this, power up while holding down the Menu key until the G3X enters configuration mode. Then select the Systems Options page on the top row and see what System Type is set to.]

“I’m not sure why that is set that way sir. That’s the way it came out of the shop. Is that not allowed?” 

[RoundTwo]

8 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I could see some type of “field approval” (which is probably not quite right) for a gear warning, but it might be a stretch to have the whole system in experimental mode…

This definitely sounds like a gray area and maybe due to the obvious benefits provided by this “deviation” there is a willingness to allow it.

[RoundTwo]

On 3/1/2023 at 6:23 PM, PT20J said:

The answer depends a lot on how you ask the question. The fact is that to enable it, you have to put the G3X in a state prohibited by the STC. 

Speaking to Evan at Palmetto, he states he is running in Certified and NOT Experimental. This is becoming very interesting!

[PT20J]

10 minutes ago, RoundTwo said:

Speaking to Evan at Palmetto, he states he is running in Certified and NOT Experimental. This is becoming very interesting!

If that’s true, then Garmin must only block access to experimental features in certified mode without actually blocking them, in which case you could put it non-certified mode and enable an experimental feature and then put it back in certified mode and the feature would remain enabled.

The risk is, of course, that should Garmin decide that this is not what it intended it could easily change the STC documentation to explicitly prohibit enablement of certain features and they could change the software so that experimental features only remain enabled when running in non-certified mode.

Skip

[Steve0715]

47 minutes ago, PT20J said:

The risk is, of course, that should Garmin decide that this is not what it intended it could easily change the STC documentation to explicitly prohibit enablement of certain features and they could change the software so that experimental features only remain enabled when running in non-certified mode.

Skip

Why would Garmin consider a block on a safety issue?  

[RoundTwo]

2 hours ago, PT20J said:

If that’s true, then Garmin must only block access to experimental features in certified mode without actually blocking them, in which case you could put it non-certified mode and enable an experimental feature and then put it back in certified mode and the feature would remain enabled.

The risk is, of course, that should Garmin decide that this is not what it intended it could easily change the STC documentation to explicitly prohibit enablement of certain features and they could change the software so that experimental features only remain enabled when running in non-certified mode.

Skip

That could happen but anyone who had it done would then only be out the cost of the integration since it requires no real capital investment, and then you’d be back to where you started from.
 

I think this is such a huge win, I’ve already sent out quote requests for upgrading G3X to EIS, pulling out the EDM 900 and reusing all the probes and other instrumentation, add in GEAR WARNING and STALL WARNING too. And as long as it’s in the shop, upgrade the 750 to an Xi. I’m just bummed I can’t get the G3X to control all of the mood lighting like you can do in your Sling Tsi. Let’s end this discrimination!