Shoulder Harness question

[GeeBee]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

They do if it sells tickets.

 

I can assure you based on personal experience, 95% don't even know the belt has an airbag.

[MikeOH]

5 hours ago, Yetti said:

My thought is if I crash, I don't want a big ole thing there to wack my head against.   I probably sit further back than most.   I also thought it might be good to carry a bicycle helmet to don in case of less than optimal landing.

I've thought about carrying a couple of bike helmets, as well.  It really would be a smart move in case of an in cruise engine failure; time to don them before an off-field landing.  However, I can't see myself putting one on for every takeoff and landing which is statistically more likely when I'd need one!

[Pinecone]

17 hours ago, EricJ said:

A common thing to do with old automotive airbags, especially when removing them to build a race car or something (because they're not safe in that environment), is to set them off in a shop or in a parking lot for fun, sometimes to see how high you can launch something.   You get an appreciation for the nature of that beast when you do this.  They're highly explosive and can be fatal when used improperly or used in an environment not designed for them.    Automotive systems are very carefully designed to work properly in their specific environment with the other equipment installed around them so that the high amount of energy released goes in a useful direction and is unlikely to cause harm or interact with other parts of the vehicle or environment to cause harm.   The seats, structure, harness, dash, etc., are all designed together as a system with this in mind.   

I have always loved that airbags were originally due to people not wearing shoulder harnesses.

So they mandate a system, that if you don't wear your shoulder harness, can cause serious injury.  And if you do wear your shoulder harness is redundent.

Yes, side airbags do cover impacts that seat/shoulder harnesses do not.

[Hank]

4 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I have always loved that airbags were originally due to people not wearing shoulder harnesses.

So they mandate a system, that if you don't wear your shoulder harness, can cause serious injury.  And if you do wear your shoulder harness is redundent.

Yes, side airbags do cover impacts that seat/shoulder harnesses do not.

airbags without belts don't cause near the injury that the automated shoulder straps did when the lap belt wasn't added!

To say nothing of the effect of early airbags, designed for 200-lb men, on female /  young / shorter/ smaller drivers . . . .

There's much more to it than simply "put an air bag in there."

[icurnmedic]

Decided based on your opinions, to go with the inertia for pilot and static for co-pilot.  Cost for parts was around $1500. Not sure what labor will be. Will update when completed.  
Thanks for the insight. 
Thomas

[Pinecone]

I put in the Alpha inertia reel for both front seats in a K that already had shoulder harnesses.

They had an Oshkosh sale, so that pair was just over 1.1 AMU, and install was charged 3 hours, but they were doing some other work, so not sure if that was all for the harnesses.

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I put in the Alpha inertia reel for both front seats in a K that already had shoulder harnesses.

They had an Oshkosh sale, so that pair was just over 1.1 AMU, and install was charged 3 hours, but they were doing some other work, so not sure if that was all for the harnesses.

Any issues with bumping into the inertia reel during ingress, egress, or bumps?

[N56394]

I flew for years in Mooney's with fixed shoulder harnesses - it really was not much of an issue with loosening to reach things. When it was time to replace them in my 83J/Missile I went with the AmSafe inertia reels on both sides and I really like the install. The freedom of movement I now have makes a difference and I am no longer even thinking of the restraint. I like it when a system works well and you don't even know it is there. Based on comments I think the sweet spot is to install the fixed on the copilot side though for ease of getting in and out of the back seats. I guess the answer is if you fly alone or with a person up front only then I would recommend the reels for both sides... if frequently having people get in and out of the back it is noticeable and I have had to remind passengers to watch out for the reel cause it sticks out a bit. AmSafe also makes the GA airbag restraints and has an STC for many makes and models. They also make the airbag systems on airliners and those systems are only installed when the occupant injury pass/fail requirements cannot be met by a normal restraint. Premium airline seating is a challenge to pass the head injury requirements, so you tend to see the airbag systems and shoulder harnesses. The issue of an airbag being safer than a shoulder harness alone it an it depends one... As an engineer that reviews the test results from the airline testing, I have seen that in some cases the airbags work well to protect the occupant. In a GA setting a shoulder harness with a strong anchor should be adequate to prevent injuries from severe head contact. Keep in mind also that the airbag systems are a threshold device that only fires when a certain impact severity is reached, while a shoulder harness works at mostly any impact level. (well, if you have the reels, it is when they lock up and that is a pretty low level). Years ago the FAA put out a notice that encouraged all GA planes to install shoulder harnesses, if you have not done this, I recommend you do. Happy Flying! 

[OR75]

i have the static type and i wish i had the reel type.  

I wear the harness during take off and landing only and most of the time it is "on the way)

[Pinecone]

2 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Any issues with bumping into the inertia reel during ingress, egress, or bumps?

Nope.  Don't notice them at all.