Difficult question, expensive hangar near home or cheap hanger 1 hour away

[A64Pilot]

2 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

What do you guys who live in air parks pay for HOA fees? Someone has to pay to cut the grass and keep the lights on.  

I have to drive an hour and fifteen minutes to get to my plane.  It sucks.  But the hangar and facilities are nice, the price is affordable, and it keeps the plane off of the coast.  There also really aren’t any significantly closer options.  I’m jealous of those of you who live in air parks.  

Ours is crazy, it’s $150 a year.

You take 150 multiply it by 85 in our case and that’s $1,000 a month which will cut a lot of grass. We have two runways, 18/36 and 09/27 but not all runways are grass, I prefer grass as it’s easier on the airplane 

‘However what has me worried is our streets are about 15 years old and nothing is being saved for that eventuality, We have several older owners that don’t want to pay, because it won’t be their problem, but that isn’t a fly in community problem, it’s any community with private roads

[A64Pilot]

19 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Ouch!   Yeah.  There go the cost savings right there.  There is always a catch.   Free lunches just keep getting harder to find!

 I’m sure the developer is subsidizing the cost, but I’m unsure as to why. Even if you tripled it, it’s not a significant expense. I’d like to see us toss a couple of grand a year into a paving fund myself. I’d rather do than have to pay for it all myself. I’ve been told the biggest reason it’s not is that it’s collected by lot, so the developer having a bunch of lots would be paying for all of them, maybe that’s why the association fees are only $150 a yr?

Plus we have a home owner who does all the mowing and I assume the developer pays him somehow, maybe gave him a free lot? I don’t know, but he’s not getting younger.

The developer is or was a large farmer and still has a lot of equipment like big irrigation guns and a tractor and roller to roll the runways to keep them nice and smooth, mowing is just one part of keeping runways smooth and good.

I’ve lived here a year and a half and have not seen the irrigation used

[LANCECASPER]

52 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

What do you guys who live in air parks pay for HOA fees? Someone has to pay to cut the grass and keep the lights on.  

I have to drive an hour and fifteen minutes to get to my plane.  It sucks.  But the hangar and facilities are nice, the rent is affordable, and it keeps the plane off of the coast.  There also really aren’t any significantly closer options.  I’m jealous of those of you who live in air parks.  

The HOA in my neighborhood is $1000/yr, which is broken into $500 for the roads, etc, etc like any other HOA and then $500 for runway and taxiways, which works out to a little over $40 per month, which is much less than I would pay for gas driving to and from an airport.

[A64Pilot]

I looked at cost to drive a full size PU, but nothing shows the current gas prices, but what I did find based on $2 a gl was roughly .50C a mile

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/chart1.htm

[David M20J]

16 hours ago, McMooney said:

200, 450, 587

I wish I had those prices even for a drive an hour away

[McMooney]

13 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I looked at cost to drive a full size PU, but nothing shows the current gas prices, but what I did find based on $2 a gl was roughly .50C a mile

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/chart1.htm

hmm, those numbers must be old, my camaro pushes 30+ mpg 

[carusoam]

2 minutes ago, McMooney said:

hmm, those numbers must be old, my camaro pushes 30+ mpg 

What year is your Camaro?

95 firebird, LT1 engine, 6spd, lugging around at 45mph can get pretty good mileage too… but doesn’t have the fancy Chevy fuel calculator… got to do the math by hand… And, see how far you go on the NJ TPK at only 45mph… 

Gonna need some numbers to support the statement….  

Best regards,

-a-

[A64Pilot]

11 hours ago, McMooney said:

hmm, those numbers must be old, my camaro pushes 30+ mpg 

Those numbers are old, and therefore low. There is more to cost to drive than just fuel, depreciation per mile and upkeep, tires, oil whatever. But with fuel being so high now, that drives the numbers up, not down. Average fuel milage has actually been pretty flat for a long time, yes engines are becoming more efficient, but buyers want ever increasingly large autos and want 4v wheel drive both burn more fuel.

Average for light duty vehicles has been getting better, but Americans aren’t buying light duty vehicles, they are buying SUV’s and PU’s

If you look at the all vehicles column you’ll see in the years between 1990 and 2010 we gained 1 MPG, this graph stops at 2010, but is the least biased report I could find from a hopefully reputable source

https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/showtext.php?t=pTB0208

If fuel stays high and I think it will, it will drive an interest for electric and better fuel milage cars. I watched this with the Prius, fuel gets high Prius prices go up and supply goes down during cheap gas they were overstocked and you could get a screaming deal.

Without getting political, current administration has a desire to push for climate change etc. Best most logical way to do that is make energy expensive, if it’s expensive people will conserve, if it’s not that’s when they buy the Luxury SUV’s etc. Use me for example, we drove the 93 Z28 to the Toyota dealer the day cash for clunkers became real and purchased the Prius they had, the Z28 was an “excess” car, had been hangared and not driven for a couple of years. My plan had been to find a lot in Fl to put our 5th wheel, leave the Z28 at the local airport and fly down every Summer weekend, but it never happened.

Friend we had in the Army’s wife was complaining on Facebook how it took $150 to fill up her expedition, my wife posted for $150 we could drive over 4,000 miles, she didn’t get a response, but if fuel stays high, more people will look at ways to save money, and dumping the gas hogs will make more and more sense.

What has that got to do with hangar near or far? Well when trying to decide, use real numbers on what it cost to drive, excess driving cost may have to come from money meant to spend flying depending on your income and budget of course, it’s even possible that that hangar further away may not be as cheap as it looks at first glance

Edited April 18, 2022 by A64Pilot

[McMooney]

12 hours ago, carusoam said:

What year is your Camaro?

95 firebird, LT1 engine, 6spd, lugging around at 45mph can get pretty good mileage too… but doesn’t have the fancy Chevy fuel calculator… got to do the math by hand… And, see how far you go on the NJ TPK at only 45mph… 

Gonna need some numbers to support the statement….  

Best regards,

-a-

2016 2LT RS -- Actually got it  to have some fun while saving gas.  

Picture is a bit old, current max is 36.1mpg

not really unusual though, owned almost exclusively camaros since 1996,  all have approached or exceeded 30mpg when driven sensibly.

 

what surprised me, was a vette i rented for a road trip,  thing destroyed 30mpg hwy, think i calculated like 33 or 34

 

[McMooney]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

Those numbers are old, and therefore low. There is more to cost to drive than just fuel, depreciation per mile and upkeep, tires, oil whatever. But with fuel being so high now, that drives the numbers up, not down. Average fuel milage has actually been pretty flat for a long time, yes engines are becoming more efficient, but buyers want ever increasingly large autos and want 4v wheel drive both burn more fuel.

Average for light duty vehicles has been getting better, but Americans aren’t buying light duty vehicles, they are buying SUV’s and PU’s

If you look at the all vehicles column you’ll see in the years between 1990 and 2010 we gained 1 MPG, this graph stops at 2010, but is the least biased report I could find from a hopefully reputable source

https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/showtext.php?t=pTB0208

If fuel stays high and I think it will, it will drive an interest for electric and better fuel milage cars. I watched this with the Prius, fuel gets high Prius prices go up and supply goes down during cheap gas they were overstocked and you could get a screaming deal.

Without getting political, current administration has a desire to push for climate change etc. Best most logical way to do that is make energy expensive, if it’s expensive people will conserve, if it’s not that’s when they buy the Luxury SUV’s etc. Use me for example, we drove the 93 Z28 to the Toyota dealer the day cash for clunkers became real and purchased the Prius they had, the Z28 was an “excess” car, had been hangared and not driven for a couple of years. My plan had been to find a lot in Fl to put our 5th wheel, leave the Z28 at the local airport and fly down every Summer weekend, but it never happened.

Friend we had in the Army’s wife was complaining on Facebook how it took $150 to fill up her expedition, my wife posted for $150 we could drive over 4,000 miles, she didn’t get a response, but if fuel stays high, more people will look at ways to save money, and dumping the gas hogs will make more and more sense.

What has that got to do with hangar near or far? Well when trying to decide, use real numbers on what it cost to drive, excess driving cost may have to come from money meant to spend flying depending on your income and budget of course

I long ago napkin calculated the move from kdwh->ksgr would essentially be a wash due gas/tolls/wear, just something primal cb about 600 vs 400.

 

[A64Pilot]

I guess I shouldn’t  bring up that the only hangar I’ve rented was a new T hangar at Camilla Ga, for $125 a month and bet it’s the same now.

[McMooney]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

I guess I shouldn’t  bring up that the only hangar I’ve rented was a new T hangar at Camilla Ga, for $125 a month and bet it’s the same now.

drool

 

[carusoam]

13 hours ago, McMooney said:

2016 2LT RS -- Actually got it  to have some fun while saving gas.  

Picture is a bit old, current max is 36.1mpg

not really unusual though, owned almost exclusively camaros since 1996,  all have approached or exceeded 30mpg when driven sensibly.

 

what surprised me, was a vette i rented for a road trip,  thing destroyed 30mpg hwy, think i calculated like 33 or 34

 

Side by side comparison…

LT1 Corvette, LT1 Firebird…

Easy to get 30mpg in either…. At 45mph, with gentlemanly accelerations…. And A64’s decelerations….

The giant rubber contact patch is tough on the mileage…

Bird was a six speed, Vette was four and auto…

 

Only a Mooney pilot can drive by the numbers, and think ahead of the car when it comes to timing stop lights… just to derive the best efficiency possible…. 
 

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Will.iam]

Our HOA are $125/month. I couldn’t imagine driving to get my plane. I’m spoiled in loading the luggage from the house and going flying no automobile used. Also the camaraderie of fellow pilot Neighbors that share the same passion for flying even though most have their tail on backwards. Got to fly in one neighbor’s Comanche 400. That 8 cylinder beast sounds so weird when idling as the prop is moving 2 times as slow as what the ear hears. Makes since with 8 cylinders firing you get twice as many pops as a 4 cylinder would do to turn that prop the same 1000 rpm it’s just weird. The amazing part was the acceleration on takeoff only matched by the eye watering 39 gallon/hr fuel flow. I could almost see the fuel quantity gauges moving by the second. luckily for us and the fuel tanks level off came just as quick and once he throttled back, the fuel flow came crashing down to 13gph but so did the acceleration. So he has options like flaming dragon mode but that sure is one thirsty dragon especially on takeoff. 

[Mooneymite]

6 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Our HOA are $125/month. I couldn’t imagine driving to get my plane. I’m spoiled in loading the luggage from the house and going flying no automobile used. Also the camaraderie of fellow pilot Neighbors that share the same passion for flying even though most have their tail on backwards. . 

About $80/month covers mowing, fertilizing, irrigation, lighting, etc. as well as community pool/tennis courts, pavilion, clubhouse and common areas.  County maintained roads help keep dues low.

Not having to drive to the airport:  priceless.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Mooneymite

[McMooney]

On 4/16/2022 at 12:41 PM, GeeBee said:

What are the facility differences? Approach types, weather reporting, fuel availability all figure in to the calculation. I have a field close, but VFR only

 

 

All 3 have rnav and ils/loc approaches available,  7000+ ft runways,  fuel,  fbos.  

 

[Hank]

16 minutes ago, McMooney said:

All 3 have rnav and ils/loc approaches available,  7000+ ft runways,  fuel,  fbos.  

Then hangar nearby, and enjoy flying often!

[hubcap]

On 4/17/2022 at 1:17 AM, McMooney said:

200, 450, 587

Get the closest one.

Your time is worth the difference.

Edited April 20, 2022 by hubcap

[TCC]

Moving from 10mins to the plane to 40mins cut my flying in half in year one. A lot of spontaneous flying dropped off and I find myself having to plan when to make the trip.

I would not do it again.

[McMooney]

Strange thought popped into my head,

if i get the closer hangar and bike to the plane,  would my flying then be Carbon Neutral ?

[BradB]

I live close enough to walk to my airport, and I have done it.     Being close makes it so much easier to check on things (tires, leaks, battery).   It is nice to get there early and preflight before passenger(s) arrive.    They can just show up and go.  
 

Mooneys are ‘go places’ airplanes.    I used mine to travel everywhere and get there fast.   Adding an hour to the trip in both directions changes the drive vs. fly equation in a bad way (pretty sure in both radii and grads).   
 

Disclaimer: I fly from Erie, PA to Cleveland when I go there (~80 miles).   
 

So…..what’s the decision?

 

bradb

 

former Acclaim

2006 Meridian 

Edited April 22, 2022 by BradB

[carusoam]

Interesting point Brad!

Flying solo is one thing…

Bringing three other people along is another…

Getting the pre-flight done the day before, or just before the other passengers arrive… is huge…

Doing a pre-flight while three people are sitting in the cold can be a drag for them… and stressful for the pilot when something goes awry…

+1 for the hangarhome!   

Best regards,

-a-

[BDPetersen]

 No brainer. A stroll to my blue hangar and county airport.

[LANCECASPER]

21 hours ago, McMooney said:

Strange thought popped into my head,

if i get the closer hangar and bike to the plane,  would my flying then be Carbon Neutral ?

No, but if you don't get a decent seat for the bike you could be Carbon Neuter. 

[FlyingDude]

On 4/17/2022 at 10:01 AM, A64Pilot said:

I prefer grass as it’s easier on the airplane

Could you please elaborate?  I was under the impression that a smooth asphalt runway was easier on the plane during landing/take-off than a bumpy grass field.  Hence I've been avoiding a certain grass-strip airport (3NP) with a great restaurant, and even suggested it to wife that we should go there... but by car.