$80K for the lowly C?

[Mooneymite]

As a long time C owner, I keep an eye on Barnstormers' M20-C listings.  In the past two weeks the (asking) prices have been creeping up into the 70's and today, I see this:

1970 MOONEY M20C RANGER • $80,000 • FOR SALE • 1970 M20C SN: 700089. AFTT 4,540 Engine TSMO: 15 hours. Prop TTSO 75 hours (B hub no NDT required) Tanks resealed in 2019. Interior redone 2021. Has GMA 345 with 4 place jacks, GNS430W (16W) interfaced with MD200-306 CDI, FS210 for wireless FLT plan transfer and AHRS, SL-30 interfaced with KI-204, Trig TT-31 XPDR mode S ADSB out, JPI 700, EI FP-5L interfaced with GNS. PC system work great.The only thing this aircraft would need is a paint Job. Paint is 5/10, Interior is 9/10. I have all logbooks and records since new. Times will continue to go up, I fly it every week. •

Are C's really commanding these prices, or are these price increases just reflecting general inflation?  I've always believed the C was the most bang for the buck, but $80K?

Yes, I know a seller can ask whatever he likes, but are they selling?  Hmmm.  Maybe my C is for sale at 100K?

[67 m20F chump]

It’s a free country but I wouldn’t pay that much for a C that needs paint.  Maybe somebody will who knows.  Honestly for 80k you don’t have many options now a days.  I’m glad I’m not buying.

[FlyingDude]

You always see the asking price but never see the closing price... Unless you pay $100 to pull the records from FAA, which by the way do not necessarily reflect the  actual sales price. They're not communicated to the IRS so you can write whatever number (I've been told).

This guy on Facebook posted a commander at 2x last year's price at 165k. The first time he ranted about how everything is damn expensive due to the democrats and how liberals need not inquire and all that jazz. I enjoyed his red herring and started following this. By now, he's reduced the price by 10k and removed the political drama. Let's see how much lower he goes... It's a nice plane but too expensive for that speed...

Man, you couldn't find an inflatable kids pool for months. 2nd hand home gym weights went up from 50c/lb to 4$/lb: all because of the lockdowns and social distancing... They're 1.5-2$/lb today.

I'm sure there's an up tick in aircraft prices like in RVs, but I haven't heard anywhere what the actual inflation rate is, for aircraft.

BUT

if all this frenzy generates enough pull to allow hangar queens and barn rotters to resurface, get fixed and fly again, it might be worth it for GA. It might fix there problem of the shrinking pool. Anyone have any data on this?

[Browncbr1]

Well, I put all my government covid payments into a separate account which pays for my engine overhaul.  So, really my engine cost is zero to me.   Maybe the right buyer for an $80k C has to think that way.     Prices go up when money is free.  

[FlyingDude]

1 hour ago, Browncbr1 said:

Well, I put all my government covid payments into a separate account

I'm using my separate covid handout account to alleviate the pain at fuel pump...

[Mooneymite]

2 hours ago, 67 m20F chump said:

It’s a free country but I wouldn’t pay that much for a C that needs paint.  Maybe somebody will who knows.  Honestly for 80k you don’t have many options now a days.  I’m glad I’m not buying.

Lest there be any doubt, I know nothing about this particular Mooney, or the listing seller.  I'm hoping no one "goes off" about the particulars.

I'm just using this listing of an example of a C on Barnstormers.

As a C owner, it would tickle me to see it sell above asking price!   

 

1970 MOONEY M20C RANGER • $80,000 • FOR SALE • 1970 M20C SN: 700089. AFTT 4,540 Engine TSMO: 15 hours. Prop TTSO 75 hours (B hub no NDT required) Tanks resealed in 2019. Interior redone 2021. Has GMA 345 with 4 place jacks, GNS430W (16W) interfaced with MD200-306 CDI, FS210 for wireless FLT plan transfer and AHRS, SL-30 interfaced with KI-204, Trig TT-31 XPDR mode S ADSB out, JPI 700, EI FP-5L interfaced with GNS. PC system work great.The only thing this aircraft would need is a paint Job. Paint is 5/10, Interior is 9/10. I have all logbooks and records since new. Times will continue to go up, I fly it every week. •

[kortopates]

Maybe M20C are the cheapest entry to aircraft ownership - I don't know. But it seems the lowly C172 starts above 80K! lots and lot of nice (meaning modern avionics and paint) C172 way over 100K to even 259K!

Here is a 78 C172 for $189K that has only modest modern avionics https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/211004939/1979-cessna-172n-skyhawk-piston-single-aircraft

Here is refurbished '68 C172 with top shelf avionics and fresh engine for $250K https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/206943839/1968-cessna-172-skyhawk-piston-single-aircraft

Of course just like the $80K M20C, listed prices don't reflect sale prices but I don't think airplane values are as limited by model as this thread implies. $80K is nothing for a nice clean aircraft.

[Utah20Gflyer]

Rather than being surprised a C model could be worth so much you should be considering how our money could be worth so little.  This is monetary devaluation aka inflation in action.  Considering the complete incompetency and corruption of our political class I would expect this trend to continue.  Do not be surprised when a C model Mooney is going for 200k and the average home is a cool million, it's likely not that far into the future.  

[Skates97]

With the addition of some avionics and a GFC500 I renewed my insurance last December on my D/C for more than $80k hull value and the insurance company didn't have any issue with the valuation. Not sure I could get it on the market, but I know it would cost more than that to replace what I have.

[pirate]

I wasn't  even thinking of selling but last week I almost sold my 70 C.
While in for my yearly maintenance ( a local many at my airport know) saw it and offered me a serious local cash offer for exactly 100K, he was persistent and I almost said yes but I got to thinking I did this plane up for me and even if I sold it a 100K does not buy much these days, maybe a worn out J for a logical move up but it would most likely need another       100K + in improvement to be equivalent condition, appearance and avionics to what I have. Crazy how hot the market is, but I’m sure as this year progresses the economy will tighten up and things will reverse, will see……….

[Utah20Gflyer]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

With the addition of some avionics and a GFC500 I renewed my insurance last December on my D/C for more than $80k hull value and the insurance company didn't have any issue with the valuation. Not sure I could get it on the market, but I know it would cost more than that to replace what I have.

I just upped my insurance on a g model to 80k with slightly better avionics than the subject plane and the insurance company wasn't phased at all.    If I wrecked my plane a smaller payout than that would put me in the price range of flying projects.   

[FlySafe]

well i'm one of those that certainly has more in my avionics than the frame on my 74C (GFC500, 2 G5s, GTX345, PMA8000, GTN650xi, AV20s, JPI830, and a GNC355 waiting when my kx155 display fails) but i love it and would not part with it or be able to replace with a similarly equipped for less than 110-120K.  insurance at 100k and no questions from avemco and probably a little low even at that. I don't consider my plane an investment but it's very important for my mental health and quality of life. We each get to decide how to upgrade and which airframe to fly. we are fortune in the mooney family to have several excellent airframe choices to build upon....and yes it's just a lowly C, flying along at 130kts, 65% power on 8 gal/hr but having fun   stay warm. 

k

[Guest]

There have been several RV-10’s listed for just over and just under $300K, and several 2 seat RV’s nearing $200K.  The market is crazy right now.

Clarence

[David Lloyd]

Airplane market is crazy.  Auto market is crazy. Everything seems crazy.  I'll just putt around in my lowly C. It starts when hot or cold. It goes between 130 and 145 knots depending on my mood.  Too much invested in the panel.  After 40+ years flying, thousands of hours, it is all the airplane I now need.

Some have referred to the C as a starter airplane.  Makes a pretty good ender airplane also.

[eman1200]

Airplane market is crazy.  Auto market is crazy. Everything seems crazy……

you crazy.

[David Lloyd]

11 hours ago, eman1200 said:

 

you crazy.

 

Why thank you Eric, you too.

[Mooneymite]

12 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

Airplane market is crazy.  Auto market is crazy. Everything seems crazy. 

If you want to see stupid-crazy estimates of what your C is worth, talk to my local personal property tax assessor!  She's licking her chops over the recent run-up in valuations.  It used to be that people avoided the local tax by registering out of state, but with us under class B and ADS-B, that might not work so well.  

[A64Pilot]

2 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

If you want to see stupid-crazy estimates of what your C is worth, talk to my local personal property tax assessor!  She's licking her chops over the recent run-up in valuations.  It used to be that people avoided the local tax by registering out of state, but with us under class B and ADS-B, that might not work so well.  

Anonymous mode on your ADSB ought to help with that along with registering with the FAA to not give out your data.

Sure there are still ways, but most Government employees are lazy and will only look the easy ways and take the low hanging fruit

[A64Pilot]

80K literally isn’t the kind of money it was even just two years ago, look at house prices, Zillow says my house is worth 20% more than I paid for it a year and a half ago for instance, and AVERAGE price for a new car today is $47,000. It was $38,920 in 2020 from one source I can find.

[HawkGT]

I have been actively shopping for a Mooney since December.  I finally closed on a new to me m20K model yesterday.  The market is crazy right now.  What I noticed is planes that were priced right sold in a matter of hours for asking price and planes listed for obnoxious amounts tended to sit for weeks/months.  Whats more amazing than the prices is the amount of low/no recent flighy time planes that people are pulling out of the hangar to capitalize on the prices.   My first question was always "how much flight time has the plane had in the last 1, 5 and 10yrs"  and surprisingly there were several that havent flown in 20 years.  I agree this could be a good thing if people actually spend the money to fix these planes and use them.  Hopefully it will also open up some hangar space, but I havent seen that yet as demand seems to be equally high with limited supply..so those prices are going up as well.  Unfortunately gas prices are also increasing so my fear is this further limits access to GA for new and existing pilots.  Economics 101 I guess but it will be interesting to see how current world events effect prices going into warmer weather.

[A64Pilot]

I’ve seen similar cycles over the last 20 yrs with Ag plane’s. Whenever Commodity prices increase they are in demand, when they tank you can’t give one away.

Then there was the great corn rush when the federal Government mandated ETH to be added to fuel and any kind of old Ag plane was drug out or retirement and put up for sale to spray the corn, Ag pilots from around the Country flew to Iowa for work, and Iowa farmland prices were insane.

‘Many thought the corn thing was permeant and in fact would always continue to expand.

I expect to hear soon that there will be another push to grow corn for for fuel? Years ago I was told by the local Chevron Jobber that it took $4 a gl for gas for ETH to make sense. Less than $4 a gl and the alcohol cost more then the fuel it was meant to replace, I don’t know if that number included the fact that ETH is less energy dense than gasoline of if it was a simple gl for gl.

But I’ve never seen anything like this, was it like this in the 70’s just before the huge inflation? My take is all of the free and cheap money is driving this, people will pay $50,000 for a car if because of the very low interest rates the payments are relatively low.

I assume prices will crash when inflation robs spending power and interest rates go sky high to control inflation, if and only if whoever is in charge is brave enough to drive up interest rates.

So maybe before long that 80K C will be a 20K C?

Edited March 12, 2022 by A64Pilot

[Mooneymite]

21 hours ago, kortopates said:

Maybe M20C are the cheapest entry to aircraft ownership - I don't know. But it seems the lowly C172 starts above 80K! lots and lot of nice (meaning modern avionics and paint) C172 way over 100K to even 259K!

Ha!  Funny you bring that up.

A neighbor recently lost his hangar (divorce), so he's tying his C-172 down next to me.  The interest in that plane from passer-bys has been amazing.  I ought to sell his plane!  

[ZuluZulu]

Piper Cherokee 140s are asking the same price these days.  I'll take the C every day of the week.

[hammdo]

I saw a '68 Arrow going for around 70k with old avionics. 80k for a Mooney with newer engine etc is in the ballpark...

-Don

[0TreeLemur]

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

There is nothing at all lowly about a C unless you are comparing it to other, subsequent, M20s.  And even then, having owned both a C and a J, much less so than a lot of people seem to think.  

I too disagree with the word "lowly" in title of this thread.  The C model fits a specific mission very well.  The lowest average cost Mooney is a fantastic two-adult airplane, and hauls 4 in a pinch.   Carburetor has pluses/minuses, but they are simple and reliable.  I could afford to upgrade to a newer "modern" Mooney but I don't want to.  Upgrading to a J gets me 15-20 minutes earlier arrival on a 400 NM trip.  The additional cost plus all the uncertainty that comes with a new airframe doesn't make sense to me.