Avidyne’s Dirty Little Secret “Black List”

[Frank B.]

Do you currently have Avidyne avionics installed in your aircraft ? Is it “still” certified or is it in their “Black List”.

If you currently own or plan to buy any Avidyne avionics, you should read the emails between myself and Avidyne over the last few days.

Maybe I can save you from suffering the $$$ loss that I recently suffered or maybe you are flying IFR 135 or a certified aircraft with avionics that are no longer certified.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c7faz6r6qtt1p1y/AADO3mH9WdAT98jYQ1Z1WQOta?dl=0

 

Thanks, Frank

[N9201A]

Thank you for sharing this, seems prudent to check with the manufacturer before buying used avionics.  Hope you can recover your $ from the seller, as the emails imply someone who had the unit before you knew it was not serviceable/airworthy.

[hammdo]

No avidyne for me.  If we buy off eBay, how do we know? If I buy new and have any kind of incident, they’ll put it on a blacklist? No thanks…

-Don

 

[philiplane]

This policy originated many years ago with their EX5000 series PFD & MFD displays found in 2002-2009 Cirrus, and 2004 and later Mooney & Piper aircraft.

The reasoning was that the PFD AHRS units and supporting hardware could be damaged in a crash, and then be unreliable. Given that the PFD is the most important display in the panel, I can see why they did this. But doing it with the radios seems like overkill.

So, if you have any Avidyne avionics, and you have a gear up or other reportable incident, your avionics are now junk as well. This will make for some interesting insurance claims. And then, rate increases.

Edited February 22, 2022 by philiplane

[EricJ]

Yeah, it's a safety issue since the performance can no longer be assumed after an accident.   I wouldn't assume Garmin or other manufacturers don't have the same sort of thing.

This isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing, imho, but definitely something to be aware of.

[dzeleski]

37 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Yeah, it's a safety issue since the performance can no longer be assumed after an accident.   I wouldn't assume Garmin or other manufacturers don't have the same sort of thing.

This isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing, imho, but definitely something to be aware of.

Completely agree. I own a 440. If I was going to buy used I would want to know if it was in a crashed frame because I wouldnt be buying it. These policies should be more transparent however, as it can obviously screw someone over.

Day 1 after the crash the unit may bench test just fine, but day 300 after the crash it may fail due to hot and cold cycles causing a small fracture to get worse and fail the unit. If avidyne takes the unit back and fixes it, then 3 weeks later something else fails they are now on the hook for that issue since they just had it opened up.

This is also the reason why I never buy used electronics, you have no idea how they were treated and cared for.

[LANCECASPER]

While Frank's intentions may be good I would be way more upset with the person selling him these items who had already found out from Avidyne that they were on the list. I would spend my time working to get my money back rather than wasting time trying to destroy Avidyne. The title of this post is completely inappropriate. There is no secret. Their response to his inquiry let him know that they needed his serial number. As soon as he gave it to them they told him it was on the list.  Checking with them before the purchase would have eliminated all of this. He may not like the policy but it's not their fault he bought the units. Aviation Consumer back in 2016 quoted Avidyne’s Tom Harper on this policy - there is no secret. They aren’t trying to hide anything. Avidyne has also clearly spelled out what type of accident they are talking about (49 CFR 830.2 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/830.2) Frank said earlier on Beechtalk that if you had a flat tire and then cut yourself getting out of the airplane your avionics are now worthless. Total exaggeration - absolutely not true.

First google response when I did a search : http://www.aeapilotsguide.net/pdf/09-10 ... ionics.pdf

Frank buys and sells salvage airplanes and has done so for decades. Whose fault would it be if after selling a rebuilt airplane where the buyer insists on not doing a pre-buy and then afterwards the buyer finds some un-airworthy items? It would be the buyer's fault unless there was deception involved, then Frank may bear some of the blame, but It certainly wouldn't be Cessna's or Piper's or Mooney's fault.

In this case Avidyne didn't sell him anything bad, in fact they didn’t sell him anything - the Seller did. Making it Avidyne's fault removes all responsibility from Frank and the deceptive Seller. Avidyne didn't get a dime on this sale nor did they get the equipment. But they get hassled for a policy that they've had for years and feel is in their best interests. It's also in writing in their original warranty which is between them and the original purchaser. If he thinks it's worth his while go after the seller or never do business with him again, focus his energies on that. Had this been avionics just removed for an upgrade it would not have been an issue. Had he checked with them ahead of time to see what their policy was it wouldn't have been an  issue. Playing the blame game doesn't get you anything except a whiny reputation.

We’ll see who takes the high road here. Does Avidyne go on all of the online forums and tell everyone not to buy Franks previously wrecked airplanes or does Frank go on all of the forums bad-mouthing Avidyne for a policy they’ve had in place for years?

 

 

 

[EricJ]

25 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I rarely disagree with you, Eric, but I do on this issue.  Performance can never be assumed. It can only be demonstrated.  I have never really considered Avidyne’s products before, but now knowing this I can pretty unequivocally state that I will never buy anything from them.  I hope that those of you who have were aware of this policy prior to making your purchase decision. 

Perhaps my wording was not optimal.   As @dzeleski mentioned, the condition of the equipment will always be suspect after a crash, and for something where reliability is crucial a crash creates a significant increase of risk due to potential damage creating latent faults.

Even in racing, at least under the rules I raced in, the majority of your safety equipment is one-time use.    Seat, harness, helmet, are all done after a crash.   Throw them away.   It doesn't matter what they look like or feel like, the composite materials in a helmet or seat may have internal cracks that are not visible and so can no longer be relied on.   A harness gets only a single crash stretch cycle before it needs to be replaced.   It is common practice for safety crews to chop up the harness belts after a crash to make sure that they don't get re-used.

I would hope that an avionics box or gyro instrument would be held to a higher standard than that.  Electronics are subject to failures due to cracks in solder joints, circuit boards, connectors, etc.   It is not rare for manuals for such equipment to have drop limits, that if a unit gets dropped it has to be returned.   Same idea.

I would be surprised if Avidyne is the only manufacturer that keeps track.   I would not assume that Garmin et al do not do this.

[EricJ]

10 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Hi, Eric.  Yes.  Of course the same could be said of equipment that has been baking in the Arizona sun or soaking in the Florida humidity for decades, but I do understand your point.

Buying anything used is a buyer beware situation, so my reaction to Frank’s email isn’t really about his particular situation as much as it is about how this policy could affect the original purchasers of Avidyne equipment.  As long as they do so knowingly I’ve got no beef with it.  I won’t be one of them, though.  I wonder, though, en light of this policy, how many Avidyne avionics owners have unwittingly accepted under adjusted settlements from their insurance companies following an accident.  Probably a lot.  

I think it likely extends to other manufacturers as well, though.   It's a bit like the history of handling severe prop strikes in motors.   It used to be somebody would put a dial indicator on the flange and call it good and the engine would go back in service.  Not so much any more. 

[philiplane]

So when a plane is totaled by the insurance company because a truck backed into its tail, even though the plane is intact and otherwise sound , but not "economically repairable", that plane is on the same list as a plane that actually crashed upon landing and is unrepairable.

None of the other avionics manufacturers have a "black list" for avionics & instruments coming from crashed or totaled aircraft listed in incident reports.

They do cooperate with law enforcement on stolen avionics, through a shared database. 

This makes used Avidyne avionics from salvaged planes virtually worthless.

Edited February 22, 2022 by philiplane

[LANCECASPER]

33 minutes ago, philiplane said:

So when a plane is totaled by the insurance company because a truck backed into its tail, even though the plane is intact and otherwise sound , but not "economically repairable", that plane is on the same list as a plane that actually crashed upon landing and is unrepairable.

None of the other avionics manufacturers have a "black list" for avionics & instruments coming from crashed or totaled aircraft listed in incident reports.

They do cooperate with law enforcement on stolen avionics, through a shared database. 

This makes used Avidyne avionics from salvaged planes virtually worthless.

In their paperwork Avidyne spells out what an accident is - they use the definition found in 49 CFR 830.2. I don't believe your scenario wouldn't fit that definition.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/830.2

[philiplane]

They talk about "incident or accident reports, whether required, or elective". I would hope that they really only mean crashed planes, but that is even less clear from the emails referenced by the OP. There are many incident reports every year that are filed, even though not required. You see gear-ups, wildlife strikes after landing, and crashes in the ASIAS reports every day. Some result in substantial damage per the definition, some don't, but all of them have an incident report to start. People need to know that before they purchase any used Avidyne products, that they should get the serials first, and ask Avidyne if they are on the list. That's really the only way to assure that you have a useable part.

Edited February 22, 2022 by philiplane

[LANCECASPER]

9 minutes ago, philiplane said:

They talk about "incident or accident reports, whether required, or elective". I would hope that they really only mean crashed planes, but that is even less clear from the emails referenced by the OP. There are many incident reports every year that are filed, even though not required. You see gear-ups, wildlife strikes after landing, and crashes in the ASIAS reports every day. Some result in substantial damage per the definition, some don't, but all of them have an incident report to start. People need to know that before they purchase any used Avidyne products, that they should get the serials first, and ask Avidyne if they are on the list. That's really the only way to assure that you have a useable part.

This is the quote from Aviation Consumer (https://www.aviationconsumer.com/uncategorized/buying-used-avionics-plan-for-refurb-work/)back in 2016 on their PFD and MFD mainly found in Cirrus and Mirage and Meridians (bold letters I added):

Avidyne’s Tom Harper stated company policy that says any Avidyne equipment that was installed in an aircraft involved in an accident (as described in 49 CFR 830.2) shall not be serviced or recertified. If the aircraft was involved in an incident, the equipment may be repaired or certified, but only after a review of the situation and circumstances of the specific incident. Avidyne charges a flat-rate testing and recertification fee of $1300 for an Entegra PFD. Flat-rate repair pricing is $7800 and can depend on mod status. Avidyne’s testing/certification fee is $750 for the EX600 MFD, a TAS traffic processor and the DFC90 autopilot, but only if no mods or service are needed.

[EricJ]

So if you check a SN with Avidyne before purchasing you have MORE confidence in the unit you're buying if it's not on the "blacklist", or can negotiate a much, much lower price with the seller if it is and you really want it.

And overall the community is safer.

I see these as positives.

 

[philiplane]

59 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

This is the quote from Aviation Consumer (https://www.aviationconsumer.com/uncategorized/buying-used-avionics-plan-for-refurb-work/)back in 2016 on their PFD and MFD mainly found in Cirrus and Mirage and Meridians (bold letters I added):

Avidyne’s Tom Harper stated company policy that says any Avidyne equipment that was installed in an aircraft involved in an accident (as described in 49 CFR 830.2) shall not be serviced or recertified. If the aircraft was involved in an incident, the equipment may be repaired or certified, but only after a review of the situation and circumstances of the specific incident. Avidyne charges a flat-rate testing and recertification fee of $1300 for an Entegra PFD. Flat-rate repair pricing is $7800 and can depend on mod status. Avidyne’s testing/certification fee is $750 for the EX600 MFD, a TAS traffic processor and the DFC90 autopilot, but only if no mods or service are needed.

As a former director of maintenance for a Cirrus Authorized Service Center, I'm very familiar with the 2016 article, but that applies to PFD's, which integrate an AHRS and altimeter, and several other functions. Their R9 PFD even integrates radio com & nav functions. It's very complex, and I understand that they don't want crashed units in service. There's no good way to evaluate the severity of damage on these PFD's from a crash.

This stems from Cirrus policy too, where Cirrus has a list of airframes that are not eligible for certification anymore. Those are planes that have been deemed too damaged to return to service. Although many chute pulled Cirrus have returned to flight, there are others damaged in landing accidents that have been written off by Cirrus. Several planes have had tails sheared off, for example. If it were an aluminum plane, you would just order skins, or graft on an empennage from a donor plane. Not with the Cirrus though. And so as the OEM avionics provider, Avidyne had a list of all the components on each Cirrus. When a totaled Cirrus was placed on Cirrus' list, Avidyne was notified, and they automatically struck those components from their eligibility list. That is how this all started.

And they meant crash, not just substantial damage that did not involve deceleration forces. In the past I've had customers try to buy salvage PFDs to install, as a work-around for the horrible service from Extant Aerospace. They now service the older Avidyne PFDs, and they are an outright awful company to deal with. They also just acquired the L3 Stormscope and WX500 traffic business. Those products always suffered from slow and expensive support, and now it will be worse. 

But, the OP bought an IFD gps/nav/com radio. I am surprised that Avidyne would apply the same logic to a radio, that they apply to a complicated combination instrument.

Edited February 22, 2022 by philiplane

[OR75]

That’s why you should never have a hard landing , you never know what that can do to a radio . 
From now on , I should buy a brand new plane each time I go flying 

[ArtVandelay]

Remember this:

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/9730-avidynebrass-nads/

[LANCECASPER]

14 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Remember this:

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/9730-avidynebrass-nads/

No owner is required to sign that. Avidyne offers a free extended warranty for those who decide that the warranty is worth signing that agreement. Personally I think it's brilliant. When there's a crash the lawyers sue everyone and Avidyne has to pay to defend all of these frivolous suits. By keeping themselves out of some of these suits they stand a chance at being around for the long haul.

Thankfully Avidyne is upfront and tells you that if you want an extra two years of coverage over and above the standard two year warranty, at no charge, you have to indemnify them. These companies just bury the indemnification language in the fine print:

Jeppesen - https://ww2.jeppesen.com/legal/jeppesen ... agreement/
Garmin - http://static.garmin.com/apps/fly/licenses/all.html
ForeFlight - https://foreflight.com/support/eula/"

[Frank B.]

16 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

While Frank's intentions may be good I would be way more upset with the person selling him these items who had already found out from Avidyne that they were on the list. I would spend my time working to get my money back rather than wasting time trying to destroy Avidyne. The title of this post is completely inappropriate. There is no secret. Their response to his inquiry let him know that they needed his serial number. As soon as he gave it to them they told him it was on the list.  Checking with them before the purchase would have eliminated all of this. He may not like the policy but it's not their fault he bought the units. Aviation Consumer back in 2016 quoted Avidyne’s Tom Harper on this policy - there is no secret. They aren’t trying to hide anything. Avidyne has also clearly spelled out what type of accident they are talking about (49 CFR 830.2 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/830.2) Frank said earlier on Beechtalk that if you had a flat tire and then cut yourself getting out of the airplane your avionics are now worthless. Total exaggeration - absolutely not true.

First google response when I did a search : http://www.aeapilotsguide.net/pdf/09-10 ... ionics.pdf

Frank buys and sells salvage airplanes and has done so for decades. Whose fault would it be if after selling a rebuilt airplane where the buyer insists on not doing a pre-buy and then afterwards the buyer finds some un-airworthy items? It would be the buyer's fault unless there was deception involved, then Frank may bear some of the blame, but It certainly wouldn't be Cessna's or Piper's or Mooney's fault.

In this case Avidyne didn't sell him anything bad, in fact they didn’t sell him anything - the Seller did. Making it Avidyne's fault removes all responsibility from Frank and the deceptive Seller. Avidyne didn't get a dime on this sale nor did they get the equipment. But they get hassled for a policy that they've had for years and feel is in their best interests. It's also in writing in their original warranty which is between them and the original purchaser. If he thinks it's worth his while go after the seller or never do business with him again, focus his energies on that. Had this been avionics just removed for an upgrade it would not have been an issue. Had he checked with them ahead of time to see what their policy was it wouldn't have been an  issue. Playing the blame game doesn't get you anything except a whiny reputation.

We’ll see who takes the high road here. Does Avidyne go on all of the online forums and tell everyone not to buy Franks previously wrecked airplanes or does Frank go on all of the forums bad-mouthing Avidyne for a policy they’ve had in place for years?

Lance, just how much of an interest do you own in Avidyne?

Are you saying that we should keep the fact that Avidyne has a “Black List” a secret? Since they are the only avionics manufacturer that has a policy like this how should I or anyone else know to call Avidyne to make sure that the unit isn’t “Black Listed”.  I am betting that most people reading this thread didn’t know about the “Black List”. 
 

Why is the post unfair? It’s Avidyne’s policy, why don’t they publish it for all of the flying world to see? Is “Dirty” little secret unfair? I don’t think so. Since they are the only avionics manufacturer that I know of who has this policy then I would think that they would publish it on open forums, or at least on their own website …. And maybe even put it in ALL CAPS ….. MAYBE IN BOLD TYPE, so both prospective and existing customers are well informed and don’t just take for granite like I did that their policies would be similar to other avionics manufacturers. Maybe some current owners have checked now and discovered that their Avidyne units are on the “Black List” from that incident or accident that they had last month or last year and can go back to their insurance company or repair shop and ask them why am I flying illegal units? Maybe some repair shops will now know that just because the obvious repair may be as simple as a damaged wing tip or a bent gear door that they need to verify if the installed Avidyne avionics are still certified and airworthy or do they need to be added to the repair quote. 
 

The only way that I found out that I should call Avidyne to check the serial #’s was because of a post in the Avidyne FaceBook group. I could not join that group until I had already purchased Avidyne equipment. A prerequisite to join that group is to attest to the fact that you own Avidyne equipment and you even have to give them your N number to join the group.

As for your statement about the airplanes that I repair and sell why would Avidyne badmouth an airplane that I have repaired or had repaired and sold, that is unless it has Avidyne avionics in it and I didn’t trash the old ones and replace them at the time of the repair. I 100% support and promote anyone purchasing an airplane from me, or anyone else for that matter, to have a thorough pre purchase inspection done by a qualified mechanic when making a purchase under normal conditions. Unlike Avidyne, I make my conditions of sale and my policies VERY transparent and absolutely totally upfront. I also put EVERYTHING in writing.

I am also in no way trying to destroy or even hurt Avidyne, after all, I didn’t write their “Black List” policy, they did. I am simply sharing information about Avidyne’s policy which is obviously very little know to the flying public. I am getting the word out so possibly someone else might not potentially pee away $15K like I did. 
 

I am not quite sure though that I understand why you think that we should protect Avidyne and keep their dirty little secret a secret any longer. Why does Avidyne not publish their policy? We both know the answer to $$$ that $$$. But since their policy is legit, I didn’t make it up or fabricate it, it legitimately exists as you can see in my emails, and they even refer to it as a “Black List” why should I not share it with others and potentially save someone else from making the same mistake that I made? I am betting that if they haven’t already listed this policy on their website that they do so soon.

Everyone has to consider the potential risk of buying new Avidyne equipment. If you pull that trigger that they describe in the email and end up with your units being de-certified and “Black Listed” is your insurance company really going to pay you for your avionics? Say you are taxing into a grass parking spot at a fly in breakfast and you take out a taxi way light …. You shut the engine off and hurriedly exit the plane to see if you scratched your gear door and in your haste you trip going off of the wing and break your wrist or your ankle, since there was an injury, what did you just do? You had a “Reportable Accident”, right? You take the plane to the local repair shop to fully access the damage of your little escapade in the grass and all he sees wrong is a scratch in your gear door. So he advises you that’s all that’s wrong with your airplane and he pulls that gear door and repairs the scratch and he doesn’t pick up that you have Avidyne avionics so you think that all is good to go. Then 3 months or 5 years down the road your IFD 5** quits working and you slide it out and somehow get it back to Avidyne and they advise you that your unit got “Black Listed” way back when ….. is your repair shop responsible ? If it has been through one, two, three annuals … is your IA responsible? Read the fine print that Avidyne does already publish about inspections ….. and you tell me.
 

The $15K wouldn’t make me or break me one way or the other. I have actually generated a substantial interest in buying my $15K paperweight from my posts. It’s currently setting by the door, all packaged up, and heading to UPS this morning. But, even though I am going to end up not loosing one red cent on the Avidyne 550, I did already promise my two pristine 530W’s to someone. So I have little choice but purchase two 530W’s to go back in my plane which I undoubtedly will have to pay more for than I sold mine for and unlikely will be nearly as nice as the ones that I currently have. 
 

Get the HONEST word out and don’t let your friends or other forum members who are ignorant towards Avidyne’s “Black List” policy just like I was, buy an expensive paperweight, or a new unit that with the stroke of a key on a keyboard can become an expensive paperweight.

If you have a GARMIN GTN *50 unit you don’t have to worry if it breaks or if it has been in an accident. As long as it doesn’t have corrosion, then they aren’t worried about “micro-fractures” and will gladly repair your unit for a fee.

I realize and support everyone having a right to form their own opinion but no matter how many of the forums that you comment on my posts on kissing Avidyne’s @#$ it isn’t going to make you one red cent, unless you do own a substantial interest in their company, get you anything free, or benefit anyone in the flying community. And if we don’t share this unwritten unknown policy anywhere that we can with our fellow pilots many of them will potentially get burnt as well. It’s Avidyne’s policy, not mine, I am just the messenger sharing my own personal experience in hope that it educates and saves someone else from buying a very expensive paperweight.

Frank

 

16 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

 

 

[LANCECASPER]

@Frank B. Which proves how excellent the IFD550 is. 

Avidyne has always been outstanding in their dealings with me - extremely reasonable. Their policy on their website says "If the aircraft was involved in an incident, the equipment may be repaired or certified, but only after a review of the situation and circumstances of the specific incident. We feel this policy is in the best interest of the safety of our product owners."

No doubt, if it was just an incident, someone that deals reasonably with Avidyne, and believes in mutual respect, will have them check this out and it will be installed in their airplane for many years of excellent service. If it was involved in an accident yet is still working now, and the price was right,  someone will likely still get many years out of it. You could have had it determined serviceable and installed it yourself, but I have a hunch that Avidyne is thrilled not to be dealing in any way with you and probably asked one of their dealers to buy it from you.

[ArtVandelay]

Seems to me Avidyne could have a “inspection” program…send it in to be inspected for a reasonable fee (say $500), and if any problems are found, they fix it for an additional fee.

[LANCECASPER]

4 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Apparently they do that their equipment that was involved in incidents, but at a much higher expense.  But not for equipment that was involved in accidents.  Someone quoted their policy and rates up higher in this thread.  

The $1300 re-certification rate was for the huge Avidyne PFDs and MFDs in the Cirrus, Mirage and Meridian airplanes

[xcrmckenna]

Well this is going to suck for anyone that buys my 201 now that it’s going to be sold as salvage. It has an IFD440. The plane without a doubt will fly again, because there are only a few dents in the leading edge of the pilot side wing and a few other minor areas. But the log books will be stamped with a salvage mark. Pretty sad.

My airplane was chilling minding its own business and a runaway hand propped 172 felt like it needed to occupy some of the same space as my hangar and throw said chunks of hangar all over my plane. It surely didn’t cause any damage to the IFD unit but I totally understand their concern.

For the foreseeable future I’m still 100% Avidyne fanboy and thanks to this thread if my next plane is involved in a crash with Avidyne avionics I will make sure the insurance adjuster is aware of the need to replace them in the quote.

Thanks for starting this thread. I still have no desire to put any garmin in my plane unless I had no better option.


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[LANCECASPER]

 

1 hour ago, xcrmckenna said:

Well this is going to suck for anyone that buys my 201 now that it’s going to be sold as salvage. It has an IFD440. The plane without a doubt will fly again, because there are only a few dents in the leading edge of the pilot side wing and a few other minor areas. But the log books will be stamped with a salvage mark. Pretty sad.

My airplane was chilling minding its own business and a runaway hand propped 172 felt like it needed to occupy some of the same space as my hangar and throw said chunks of hangar all over my plane. It surely didn’t cause any damage to the IFD unit but I totally understand their concern.

For the foreseeable future I’m still 100% Avidyne fanboy and thanks to this thread if my next plane is involved in a crash with Avidyne avionics I will make sure the insurance adjuster is aware of the need to replace them in the quote.

Thanks for starting this thread. I still have no desire to put any garmin in my plane unless I had no better option.


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My experiences with Avidyne have been exceptionally good. Even when I messed up a software upgrade that I should have had a dealer do they took excellent care of me. My guess is that if you sent them a picture of what damage was done to your airplane and told them the whole story, they would work with you. 

This is their official position on an incident: If the aircraft was involved in an incident, the equipment may be repaired or certified, but only after a review of the situation and circumstances of the specific incident. We feel this policy is in the best interest of the safety of our product owners."

[xcrmckenna]

 
My experiences with Avidyne have been exceptionally good. Even when I messed up a software upgrade that I should have had a dealer do they took excellent care of me. My guess is that if you sent them a picture of what damage was done to your airplane and told them the whole story, they would work with you. 
This is their official position on an incident: If the aircraft was involved in an incident, the equipment may be repaired or certified, but only after a review of the situation and circumstances of the specific incident. We feel this policy is in the best interest of the safety of our product owners."

Yeah even knowing they do this I still want Avidyne in my panel.


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